Dark Zane's Ban List

[Dudewitbow]

what Final Countdown offers to a format is variance. Its a dark horse deck which catches some players. It separates the players who are good and who are bad when learning to counter any type of deck thrown your way. Final Countdown has its weakness too. its heavily prone to effect negation. Say if someone ran a deck with LaDD(frogarchs, Disaster variants). Getting LaDD out is basically instant win against a Final Countdown deck because they have no way of removing it, effectively allowing LaDD to negate 4 cards, and 4 cards is enough to end the game in their favor. Yugioh shouldn't be a game dictated by a few select decks with only 1 win condition(attacking), alternative win conditions are there for variance in a format, and its survival of the fittest. If you cant beat them, then you chose the wrong deck to run. Can't beat Final Countdown? run more negation then.

[Dark Zane]

Since when paying 2000 LP to activate Final Countdown is already a win? :/ I didn't know 20 turns were packed all in just one. :/

Just read what you just posted. You still lack of REAL valid points to claim Final Countdown must be hit. I'll only agree when Final Countdown tops regularly in tournaments. Until then, it is just a gateway from the current meta.

It is an automatic win condition because the deck wins by a card effect rather than making their opponent lose all of their life points. I've said it several times already and it makes sense. You just don't understand it. Konami even said that they don't like decks that do what Final Countdown does. It also has won nationals in Denmark and Portugal.

what Final Countdown offers to a format is variance. Its a dark horse deck which catches some players. It separates the players who are good and who are bad when learning to counter any type of deck thrown your way. Final Countdown has its weakness too. its heavily prone to effect negation. Say if someone ran a deck with LaDD(frogarchs, Disaster variants). Getting LaDD out is basically instant win against a Final Countdown deck because they have no way of removing it, effectively allowing LaDD to negate 4 cards, and 4 cards is enough to end the game in their favor. Yugioh shouldn't be a game dictated by a few select decks with only 1 win condition(attacking), alternative win conditions are there for variance in a format, and its survival of the fittest. If you cant beat them, then you chose the wrong deck to run. Can't beat Final Countdown? run more negation then.

A lot of people don't bother with negation and they just side in Stealth Bird. It's good that it brings variation to the table, but that doesn't make it a fair deck. Every deck has a weakness but that also doesn't mean the deck doesn't deserve a hit. You can also say "run more negation" when dueling any deck.

[masterwoo0]

It is an automatic win condition because the deck wins by a card effect rather than making their opponent lose all of their life points. I've said it several times already and it makes sense. You just don't understand it. Konami even said that they don't like decks that do what Final Countdown does. It also has won nationals in Denmark and Portugal.

Its won, because its another deck that many don't prepare for, like Burn. I played in a Tournament yesterday, and before going, I took Prime Material Dragon out of my Side Deck of my Chaos Dragon Deck. I ended up playing a Burn Deck in the Third Round, and got SEVERELY toasted in the first game with a triple Just Dessert, Ojama Trio, and Secret Barrel turn. With nothing in my Side to really stop or negate other than a Light and Darkness Dragon, I really had to think rather than "auto-pilot" to pull out the win, already down 0 - 1.

Final Countdown is the same way. If you catch your opponent unaware, and they have no particular effect Side Board cards, they will likely lose. But its not a given that they will. Every deck has a chance to win or lose dependent on your opening hand or ability to play out of a bad hand. There have only been a handful of decks that are nigh unbeatable, and Final Countdown is not one of those decks.

Konami does not like Stall Decks for the sake of Stalling, like Self-Destruct Button, because they lengthen the time of the Match, and and it can cause a tournament to go over projected time. That's the MAIN reason Stall based cards have been reduced in the past. Not because they are bad for the game, but because they can create massive delays in continuing Events.

Final Countdown is not just a "Stall Deck". It has a Win Condition, just like Exodia. I suppose any deck that plays Exodia should never use cards like Threatening Roar, One Day of Peace, or Thunder of Ruler, because it would just get Exodia Banned....

A lot of people don't bother with negation and they just side in Stealth Bird. It's good that it brings variation to the table, but that doesn't make it a fair deck. Every deck has a weakness but that also doesn't mean the deck doesn't deserve a hit. You can also say "run more negation" when dueling any deck.

You could, but people don't want to. That's why they complain their way out of the cards that cause them to have to do so.

[Dark Zane]

Its won, because its another deck that many don't prepare for, like Burn. I played in a Tournament yesterday, and before going, I took Prime Material Dragon out of my Side Deck of my Chaos Dragon Deck. I ended up playing a Burn Deck in the Third Round, and got SEVERELY toasted in the first game with a triple Just Dessert, Ojama Trio, and Secret Barrel turn. With nothing in my Side to really stop or negate other than a Light and Darkness Dragon, I really had to think rather than "auto-pilot" to pull out the win, already down 0 - 1.

Final Countdown is the same way. If you catch your opponent unaware, and they have no particular effect Side Board cards, they will likely lose. But its not a given that they will. Every deck has a chance to win or lose dependent on your opening hand or ability to play out of a bad hand. There have only been a handful of decks that are nigh unbeatable, and Final Countdown is not one of those decks.

Konami does not like Stall Decks for the sake of Stalling, like Self-Destruct Button, because they lengthen the time of the Match, and and it can cause a tournament to go over projected time. That's the MAIN reason Stall based cards have been reduced in the past. Not because they are bad for the game, but because they can create massive delays in continuing Events.

Final Countdown is not just a "Stall Deck". It has a Win Condition, just like Exodia. I suppose any deck that plays Exodia should never use cards like Threatening Roar, One Day of Peace, or Thunder of Ruler, because it would just get Exodia Banned....



You could, but people don't want to. That's why they complain their way out of the cards that cause them to have to do so.

You're right that they don't like decks like Final Countdown because it stalls for time, but they also hurt solitaire play decks. I run Hero Beat and I do fine against Final Countdown. I'm trying to say that just because it's not Dino Rabbit, Chaos Dragons, Inzektors or Wind-Ups doesn't mean the deck shouldn't get hit. They will hit these decks because they make the game unpleasant and the players feel like they have to play a certain deck so they can compete (also trying not to have one dominant deck).

[masterwoo0]

You're right that they don't like decks like Final Countdown because it stalls for time, but they also hurt solitaire play decks. I run Hero Beat and I do fine against Final Countdown. I'm trying to say that just because it's not Dino Rabbit, Chaos Dragons, Inzektors or Wind-Ups doesn't mean the deck shouldn't get hit. They will hit these decks because they make the game unpleasant and the players feel like they have to play a certain deck so they can compete (also trying not to have one dominant deck).

Decks like Final Countdown need to stay viable to remind players that the can't just play the "winning decks" and expect to win.

[bystander79]

I personally don't like seeing Gustav banned this early, if it goes I say ban it in March. Konmami is going to want to make the money off this card since it is so wanted.

Also you have way too many cards being banned. @ maximum Konami bans about 5 cards per format.

Personally I think it is better idea to leave MST @3 if you are going to semi Mirror Force.

[masterwoo0]

I personally don't like seeing Gustav banned this early, if it goes I say ban it in March. Konmami is going to want to make the money off this card since it is so wanted.

Also you have way too many cards being banned. @ maximum Konami bans about 5 cards per format.

Personally I think it is better idea to leave MST @3 if you are going to semi Mirror Force.

Konami isn't going to make real money off of Gustav. Shuiesha controls the rights to Gustav by virtue of being published in Shonen Jump Manga. Its not made by Konami, so until Konami reprints it, only Shuiesha gets the majority of profit.

[bystander79]

So Jump is making money off of Gustav.

Doesn't matter, they are going to want players to fork over the cash for it whether it be the $25 for a subscription, or the but load of money it will cost as a single.

[Dark Zane]

I know konami isn't going to hit it, but this is turning more into a wishlist