DKA top 10 lessons, + a deck

[GenericKen]

So real life has driven me away from MTG, but I still play around when a new set comes out.

I've built Br zombies and BW tokens. My token build sucked, and I have my doubts about tokens in general, but here's what I've gleaned.


Evolving Wilds - it's the second dual-land for enemy colors in t2. Friendly colors have 8 dual lands that are practically free if you want mana turn 1.

Gravecrawler - With Diregraf Ghoul, black has 8 1 drops. This is almost more important than the revival thing, but cast from graveyard is still good. It's pseudo-evasion against creatures he'd trade with.
Smallpox is a mild synergy, but it's not enough to build around. Being able to play crawler from yard will save you a sac, but your deck needs to want a 2/1 non-blocker for that CA to be worth anything.
The zombie lords suck and are way too slow - neither the zombie tribe nor gy reanimation are linear - they don't get much better the more zombies you run, and gravecrawler doesn't need that many to gain value.
Mortarpod is good sb with him. Maybe md.
Lead with ghoul vs Mana Leak, lead with crawler vs blockers or removal.

Tragic slip - also good with Mortarpod.

Geralf's Messenger - Think of him as a burn spell more than a creature. 4 damage for 3 mana is good agro. The body is gravy.
Even with Triple black, remember that you can splash 8 sources of an allied color for nearly nothing.
Note that undying is great with Black Sun's Zenith - the +1/+1 counters go away, and he's free to return again. Not that I'd maindeck it, but I'd be careful running the sweeper vs undying.
EDIT - counters will not be removed if the creature dies to the counters. Thanks for rules clarification. It can still Remove counters if you cast it yourself to not kill the undyer
Undying blockers are a great reason to not run infect.

Strangleroot Geist - This is the only undying creature that's an especially good blocker.

Grafdigger's Cage - Not actually that good against Undying and Gravecrawler. Those base creature bodies are still beating you. It's more of a hoser against reanimation.

Thalia, Guardian of Thraben - didn't expermiment - seems nice, but not much synergy with Anthems or tokens.

Lingering Souls - Very good, but it lives in an environment alongside Timely Reinforcements, so it's not unprecedented power. Works nicely with the anthem, but Lingering souls isn't good enough to make Intangible Virtue and pure-tokens good.
Ratchet Bomb is legal. Diversify your creature base.

Sorin, Lord of Innistrad - surprisingly disappointing for a 4 mana planeswalker. Anthem ability is great, but you're paying 4 mana for an anthem. The tokens are small, non-flying, non-deathtouching, and non-white. How much better is Sorin than a planeswalker like Garruk Relentless?

Vault of the Archangel - pretty great, especially since the token decks' color requirements are so low. It works with manlands like blinkmoth as well, if you ever find yourself with 6 lands.

*****

Br Zombies:

14 Swamp
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Blackcleave Cliffs

4 Diregraf Ghoul
4 Vampire Interloper
4 Gravecrawler
4 Highborn Ghoul
4 Geralf's Messenger

4 Bump in the Night
3 Incinerate
4 Brimstone Volley
4 Dismember
2 Doom Blade
1 Mortarpod

SB: 3 Deathmark
SB: 3 Black Sun's Zenith
SB: 3 Call to the Grave
SB: 3 Tragic Slip
SB: 3 Mortarpod

The problem with MBA is traditionally reach after an opponent stabilizes. Geralf's messanger helps here, but Incinerate + volley are easily splashed as well, and help quite a bit against protection in fact. Bump in the Night is mediocre, but it has won me a few games - burn is burn.

I can't seem to get it much faster than turn 5 without multiple 1 drops, but it's hard to defend against with the CA and varied evasion.

Worth noting that Vampire Interloper is the only creature that blocks well. This is a Liability vs agro, but it's actually quite a boon vs all these shapeshifter decks.
EDIT - Highborn Ghoul, not interloper.

I might want to bring the land count to 23, but I've been cheating because Dismember spoils me.

I've got too much SB dedicated to removal - I should probably add Manic Vandals or Shatter, but I'm still trying to figure the metagame out (RG agro became a thing?). Haven't been able to get Call to the Grave active yet, but I like the idea of it.


Don't have much time to play or playtest anymore - any immediate feedback on Zombies w/ burn?

[SpecialK2008]

I'm curious to how you see the zombie lord as slow. A 2/2 for 3 that pumps your dudes and pings them every time a dude dies.

[digger]

Worth noting that Vampire Interloper is the only creature that blocks well.

hehehe

fail

[Shadow_Seraph]

Note that undying is great with Black Sun's Zenith - the +1/+1 counters go away, and he's free to return again. Not that I'd maindeck it, but I'd be careful running the sweeper vs undying.

Not true. Assuming Geralf's Messenger (or other insert Undying card here) has a +1/+1 counter on it and then dies from Black Sun's Zenith, it will not come back. The State Based action that removes the counters occurs at the same time as the SBA that moves it to the graveyard. When Last Known Information is checked, it had +1/+1 counters on it, and does not come back. They have specifically added a new rule to the CR to reflect this for the sake of clarity.


@Digger: This type of post is spam. Please refrain from making contentless posts like this in the future. Consider this your warning.

[zhule]

kind of a stupid question but i'm having a brain fart. if i have Mikaeus, the Unhollowed in play and a non-human token i control dies. does the token exile or return to play with a +1/+1 counter?

also i dont want this to be considered spam, but shadow did you mean the -1/-1 counters stay? or are you correcting the previous poster that undying guys do not in fact stay on the field forever (dies loses the +1/+1 counter, game sees the creature has no +1/+1 counter on it so it then returns to play with a new one).

Edit: ok i should change the way i worded this. assuming the creature has undying. however it has not yet died and has no +1/+1 counters on it from anything else. if someone casts black sun, would the undying creature return to the field with no -1/-1 counters? the assumption here is that the creature touches the graveyard (thus removing all the -1/-1 counters) and thus returns to play with only the +1/+1 counter.

assuming i am incorrect, does that mean that Cage does not stop undying creatures from bouncing back after being killed

[Shadow_Seraph]

Tokens can never be returned to the battlefield, under any circumstances. If a token would leave and return to the battlefield, it instead isn't. It then ceases to exist the next time state-based effects are checked.

A creature with Undying that dies from Black Sun's Zenith will not come back. As it last existed on the battlefield, it had a +1/+1 counter and multiple -1/-1 counters. The last time it existed on the battlefield, it had a +1/+1 counter, so it does not come back. The game goes straight from 'has a plus counter and multiple minus counters and has zero or less toughness' to 'in the graveyard' without even the slightest bit of time between the two - not long enough for a creature with Undying to lose the counter.

[GenericKen]

Fixed op with correct blocker and rules clarification on undying.

I'm curious to how you see the zombie lord as slow. A 2/2 for 3 that pumps your dudes and pings them every time a dude dies.

Compare his rate of damage to messenger under common happy cases (curve with 2 zombies) and his rate of damage topdecked.

[zhule]

i think if you want the U/B lord to really shine, you need to run heavy zombies, like 4-5 different ones, plus some of the summon zombie spells. the second ability on him still isn't great, sure pinging your opponent for one each time a creature you control dies is nice, but that still means you have to have something like 8+ zombies die, or get them down to like 3 or so life with a small group on the field.

[GenericKen]

I am running 4 different zombies now, and the UB lord sucked even with 24 zombies in the deck.

The ideal curve is t1 crawler, t2 highborn, t3 Diregraf Captain, and in that scenario, the captain contributes 6 damage by turn 4, assuming no blockers or removal. The Messenger contributes 5 by himself plus a roughly equal threat when dying, plus the Undying body. Factor in that Highborn is the only aggressive 2-drop zombie, and even the goldfish seems inconsistent.

I think it's generally agreed that 3-drop lords are generally not standard playable unless their second ability is really something. I originally thought the Captain's ability reminded me of Disciple of the Vault, but there are a couple of issues with that:
1. Zombies are cheap, but not quite free.
2. There are no zombie lands.
3. There is no zombie ravager. Devouring Swarm is the best sac outlet in the format, but it's actually fighting for the same drop slot as Diregraf Captain which is *already* fighting in its slot with Messenger, and it doesn't have modular for going all-in (Dismember seems brutal against it).
4. Captain costs 3 times as much as Disciple.


He's meh on turn 3 and he's terrible on turn 8. Against sweepers, his ability is good for 3-4 life. Against removal, it's good for 1.