U/x Delver Tempo

[Dragons_Quest]

Yes I would remive the skull for image since I don't have caster I used Think Twice and barrier in it place here is my illusions deck

Creatures-16
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Phantasmal Bear
4 Lord of the Unreal
4 Phantasmal Image

Spell-24
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Mana Leak
4 Vapor Snag
2 Gut Shot
2 Psychic Barrier
2 Think Twice
1 Dissipate
1 Negate

20 Lands
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Seachrome Coast
3 Moorland Haunt
9 Islands

[Agrro]

Yes I would remive the skull for image since I don't have caster I used Think Twice and barrier in it place here is my illusions deck

Creatures-16
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Phantasmal Bear
4 Lord of the Unreal
4 Phantasmal Image

Spell-24
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Mana Leak
4 Vapor Snag
2 Gut Shot
2 Psychic Barrier
2 Think Twice
1 Dissipate
1 Negate

20 Lands
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Seachrome Coast
3 Moorland Haunt
9 Islands

Hm i didn't like Psychic Barrier all that much, did you side it out durning control match ups? I just seem to have much trouble with UB and UW...not so much solar flare variants though.

[Dragons_Quest]

I haven't tested it yet however against a caster barriers could be useful!

[Agrro]

I haven't tested it yet however against a caster barriers could be useful!

True but, Mana Leak and Dissipate are also useful against caster along with everything else. Only Negate and physic barrier have a downside.

[Dragons_Quest]

Yes true about that. what would I use in its place?

[Genocide366]

I have not tested the U/G version, but would assume you want at least your first 4 land drops to be able to play the Mayor and have counter mana available as soon as possible which 20 land would not be optimal for. I would think that Dissipate and Green Sun's Zenith would also increase your need for land. If you are having trouble with flooding in this type of build I would venture the need for better card draw, perhaps Forbidden Alchemy.



I'm glad to see that others are having success with a lower land count. The Top 8 Delver lists have been running 22 land which I was not having success with. The problem I see with running only 18 in the enemy color builds is the availability of dual lands. If we had another set of U/R dual lands I would be all for 18 lands, but as it is I want to be able to consistently get U on my first turn and R within my next two.

I'm also unsure about Think Twice. It fits the game plan of holding back and playing on my opponents turn but I wouldn't know what to take out to make room for a couple of them.

After so playtesting and playing around with some numbers this is the latest list that i'm running that seems to be working great so far i usually get delver going by turn 2 or 3 which is what you want. And i seem to keep enough counters and removal in my hand to keep Delver going so far this seems to be the most consistent build for me. Also Skinshifter has been amazing for me against aggro and he just gets there I think people are under-rating Skinshifter in this list he is a very versitile threat.

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Mayor of Avabruck
3 Skinshifter
2 Phyrexian Metamorph

1 Batterskull

4 Ponder
4 Think Twice
4 Mana Leak
4 Dissipate
3 Beast Within
2 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Negate
3 Vapor Snag

9 Island
5 Forest
4 Hinterland Harbor
2 Ghost Quarter

Comments?

[Agrro]

After so playtesting and playing around with some numbers this is the latest list that i'm running that seems to be working great so far i usually get delver going by turn 2 or 3 which is what you want. And i seem to keep enough counters and removal in my hand to keep Delver going so far this seems to be the most consistent build for me. Also Skinshifter has been amazing for me against aggro and he just gets there I think people are under-rating Skinshifter in this list he is a very versitile threat.

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Mayor of Avabruck
3 Skinshifter
2 Phyrexian Metamorph

1 Batterskull

4 Ponder
4 Think Twice
4 Mana Leak
4 Dissipate
3 Beast Within
2 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Negate
3 Vapor Snag

9 Island
5 Forest
4 Hinterland Harbor
2 Ghost Quarter

Comments?

How are you holding up against control? I was testing a similar style deck and was having all sorts of trouble versus control.

Also sideboard if possible? I would love to play a list with out snapcaster if something else is holding up but from my testing with snap caster games against control are much smoother.

[Genocide366]

How are you holding up against control? I was testing a similar style deck and was having all sorts of trouble versus control.

Also sideboard if possible? I would love to play a list with out snapcaster if something else is holding up but from my testing with snap caster games against control are much smoother.

In all honesty this deck does better against control and midrange than it does with aggro matchup, so much so that the sideboard i created is mainly for the aggro match up because against control i find that i just out race them along with all the counter and bounce spells that i run and they just have no way to deal with a turn 2 flipped delver because of all the control i'm running. So far it seems to curve out amazing and since i cut to 20 it seems i'm getting alot more meaningful draws and i seem to always have a counter in hand because of the 4 Think Twice i'm running and the 4 Ponder i'm running. 20 lands seems to be the sweet spot for me. Here's my sideboard as well:

4 Gut Shot
3 Mental Misstep
3 Flashfreeze
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Steel Sabotage
1 Batterskull

[Agrro]

In all honesty this deck does better against control and midrange than it does with aggro matchup, so much so that the sideboard i created is mainly for the aggro match up because against control i find that i just out race them along with all the counter and bounce spells that i run and they just have no way to deal with a turn 2 flipped delver because of all the control i'm running. So far it seems to curve out amazing and since i cut to 20 it seems i'm getting alot more meaningful draws and i seem to always have a counter in hand because of the 4 Think Twice i'm running and the 4 Ponder i'm running. 20 lands seems to be the sweet spot for me. Here's my sideboard as well:

4 Gut Shot
3 Mental Misstep
3 Flashfreeze
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Steel Sabotage
1 Batterskull

Hm odd, i have the exact oppisite problem. I normally can keep up with an aggro deck and have no problem bouncing them. After side board Dissipation Field jsut Demolish them. Could have something to do with my play style i guess i am normally an aggro player, so i may just not have the hang of out controling a control player. They seem to always have more answers than i do, especially if it last past turn 6 or so.

And ya for me 20 seems to be right on, 18 and i am have trouble late game keeping up, 20 is just right, 22 or more and i am just getting flooded and i can't seem to get my delver fliped or get answers.

[Genocide366]

Hm odd, i have the exact oppisite problem. I normally can keep up with an aggro deck and have no problem bouncing them. After side board Dissipation Field jsut Demolish them. Could have something to do with my play style i guess i am normally an aggro player, so i may just not have the hang of out controling a control player. They seem to always have more answers than i do, especially if it last past turn 6 or so.

And ya for me 20 seems to be right on, 18 and i am have trouble late game keeping up, 20 is just right, 22 or more and i am just getting flooded and i can't seem to get my delver fliped or get answers.

Yeah i'm the same way... i'm normally aggro but when you play control once you resolve delver and he's going... don't worry about playing anything else he will get you there... even if you have other creatures in hand and especially if you have a bunch of control in your hand. So that way even if they do resolve a removal you have more creatures in hand to replace it and keep the pressure on, I wouldn't try to have more than 2 creatures on the board at time, you just gotta sorta feel them out and be aware of their hand and if they have no hand you go in for the kill. The thing is against control you can't get too greedy you have to keep different plays in hand in case they reslove an answer for one of your threats or incase you want to counter one of their threats because either way we have the advantage because our curve is much lower so we automatically have more options, most of the time they have to tap out to play anything relevant while our threats are 3CC or lower so we can resolve and still be able to control and beyond that we're slowing them down further because they're trying to figure out how to get rid of Delver as well AND still have to worry about our control the matchup favors us. 3 damage per turn is nothing to sneeze at so if you can keep getting in with delver while building your hand then by all means do that and on top of that playing against a draw-go type control build plays perfectly in to Mayor of Avabruck because you have a 3/3 beater that makes more 3/3 beaters, he becomes a one man army with control in hand and delver going u'd be hard pressed not to win.... its a tempo deck so make them play at your tempo don't rush all your guys out on the board you want to control the board while you're swinging with delver. Against mid range you can get more aggresive because our curve is so low that we can cast and still have mana up to counter their threats and enough draw to keep refilling your hand to keep pressure on and to keep control in hand to bring their plan to a crawl or to a stop all together. It's the beauty of this deck because you can go aggro when you need to and control when you need to, or both. I really like the way this deck plays and i think its one of the better decks out there IMO.