U/x Delver Tempo

[Delofasht]

Has anyone tried utilizing Divine Deflection in U/W Delver? The card should let you win races very effectively, and create many bad trades for the opponent, and it can kill things like Thalia, protect critical cards from Titan's, kill Inkmoths. . . the list goes on and on. Did I mention it helps you race?

[esper]

I have been playing delver for a few months ago, the standard ish build with angels and geists and delvers. typical stuff. However, in these last few months ive never had geist be that good, as in he kindov just sucks it feels like, barring games where my opponent just cant get anything on board(games he would have lost anyway, even without geist). He feels like he just gets blocked and dies, always, and a turn four geist into snag still doesnt feel justified. I moved on to blade splicers finally with angels and the deck runs a million times better and is just better overall against litterally everything it seems.

Is there just some magic trick ive been missing about geist all this time or something? Some shenanigans that im somehow completely missing that makes him insane or something?

[zhule]

i think the point of giest is that he cant be targeted, so provided you can keep your opponent from having a 2/x creature, you can swing with him a few times and win the game. but your right provided your opponent can throw out some blockers, you just straight up lose.

[esper]

i think the point of giest is that he cant be targeted, so provided you can keep your opponent from having a 2/x creature, you can swing with him a few times and win the game. but your right provided your opponent can throw out some blockers, you just straight up lose.

Which is kinda my point, but people swear by him. Im thinking to myself what kind of magical fairy tale decks are you playing that wont just chump him with multiple blockers on turn 4. Theres no meta deck right now that doesnt have relevant bodies out by that time.

[vger]

@Esper,

Well there are a few reasons to why some players would prefer playing Geist of Saint Traft instead of Blade Splicer.

At the same cheap casting cost, Geist of Saint Traft is a far more offensive threat as compared to Blade Splicer. Given Delver's game plan which utilizes a bunch of tempo cards (Phyrexian spells, Vapor Snag and Mana Leak), it is possible for the Delver pilot to clear the way for Geist of Saint Traft to attack through unharmed.

Even though Blade Splicer has some decent interactions with Restoration Angel, it doesn't mean it is always going to be any game-breaking. Especially if your Blade Splicer gets answered in response to your casting of Restoration Angel.

Neither does it mean that Geist of Saint Traft has bad synergy with Restoration Angel. Quite the contrary.

Casting a Restoration Angel after blockers would mean a free 4 damage and your Geist of Saint Traft lives to attack for another combat step. Do your math now: 4 + 4 + 2 + 3 = 13 potential damage based on the interaction of Geist of Saint Traft and Restoration Angel (on turns 4 and 5), even if Geist of Saint Traft gets blocked on his first attack (on turn 4). Assuming that you are able to land two Insectile Aberration's hits and a Vapor Snag later, that's an exact 20 points of damage.

Yet this may not be accomplishable if you are running Blade Splicer with Restoration Angel. While you do enjoy better resilience with it against other aggressive strategies, it however does not play as well with Delver's strategy - it being an aggro-control/tempo strategy and not a control strategy. There might be times when Blade Splicer is great as you play defensively, however you would really want to be on the offence when piloting Delver instead. Even if you were to be on the offence, Blade Splicer may find itself getting blocked due to its lack of evasion and thus, limiting the effectiveness of your attacks.

Moreover Geist of Saint Traft is a far better equipment bearer, be it Swords or Runechanter's Pike. Or even Spectral Flight for some cases.

Another factor to why Geist of Saint Traft may be better in Delver decks: The mirror match. Geist of Saint Traft is pretty much an unanswerable clock regardless the number of Gut Shot, Vapor Snag, Dismember etc the opponent may be running. It can only be answered reliably by Clone effects, Restoration Angel or Geist of Saint Traft itself (another reason to why you should be running Geist of Saint Traft). Running Blade Splicer instead would in fact, turn on all those removal spells and make them far more effective against you. Therefore Geist of Saint Traft might be a better choice if you are facing more Delver decks in your meta.

In conclusion, Geist of Saint Traft can be a better choice due to his higher damage output, his evasive angel token as well as his hexproof ability.

Of course I am not saying that Blade Splicer is definitely a worse choice though. It could work possibly better against removal spells like Geth's Verdict/Liliana of the Veil, as well as against other non-Delver aggressive decks. Eventually it all depends on your playstyle and what works better for your meta.

Hope this has provided you with a satisfactory answer, though it may not necessarily have convinced you.

[esper]

Well its not about convincing, I was just wondering if there was something I just completely and utterly missed...and I didnt. I feel like delver players are just running him for the mirror now, in kindov a self redundant cycle, because against any of the other top decks right now he gets blocked and either angel saved(which again, running splicer means you get value out of a save at least) or it was magical christmas land and your opponent somehow only had one decent threat on turn 4.

[vger]

@Esper,

I feel that the debate of running Geist of Saint Traft or Blade Splicer is pretty much a redundant one, since it is really just about metagaming and personal preferences. Either card could have been better in different scenarios and it isn't like you could often determine a matchup based on a card alone (at least not against the better players).

[riyast]

ok this a is a delver deck i put together its rotation ready i would just like some input on how this could be made a bit better it seems to play ok in play testing but i just have the feeling i'm missing something for that wow factor thanks

// Lands
6 [7E] Plains (4)
2 [ISD] Isolated Chapel
3 [M13] Drowned Catacomb
4 [M13] Glacial Fortress
1 [ISD] Moorland Haunt
7 [MBS] Island (2)

// Creatures
4 [ISD] Delver of Secrets/Insectile Aberration
4 [ISD] Snapcaster Mage
1 [ISD] Mentor of the Meek
2 [ISD] Sturmgeist
2 [ISD] Ludevic's Test Subject/Ludevic's Abomination

// Spells
2 [M13] Negate
2 [AVR] Divine Deflection
4 [M13] Oblivion Ring
1 [M13] Rewind
2 [ISD] Dissipate
2 [DKA] Break of Day
2 [M13] Safe Passage
2 [M13] Essence Scatter
3 [DKA] Lingering Souls
2 [M13] Unsummon
1 [M13] Sleep
1 [M13] Planar Cleansing

[vger]

@Riyast,

Your list certainly plays a few odd choices, many of which aren't going to further Delver's game plan and would instead reduce its power/consistency. I do hope that this isn't the list you are piloting right now, because it would really put you in a major disadvantage against the rest of the format.

However it probably is still way too early to try building a Delver deck for the format post rotation anyway. It just seems on first glance that, Delver is going to lose a lot of its important pieces which we won't know if RtR is going to replace. Delver may either be forced to adopt new tools and transform into a different looking beast, or be forced to go obsolete then. Currently it is pointless to be forcing it to work post rotation, when you have absolutely no knowledge of what to expect for RtR Standard.

[riyast]

well my deck list is not in the true delver since delver is just there for early drops till i can drop my big drops my spell choices help with controlling the board with snaps i have lots of ops and i dont have a sb made yet but i will be getting some heavy play testing in against some good decks in a day or to but you are right this will most likely chang when RtR drops as this deck is no where near done and i know it will need some changes as decks change