Deck Discussion- Toshiro Control

[Dark Light]

Okay this deck idea has been used in Type two but never took off for two reasons. One the crads that could be used were terrible. There were no solid counter spells and nothing worth trying. Two, Once everyone found this out they gave up on it. I enjoy playinf this deck much more than tog and it has plenty of potential to be just rude, and lots of fun at the same time.

Combo- Toshiro + Forbidden Orchard + Engineered Plague or NoSB

This does two things for the deck right off the bat. The NoSB is a game winning Card Vs. Affinity and it can help control the board vs. Gobs as well giving the deck a boost off the starting line. I'm trying to build in the Post Rotation format even though using the Pre rotation would give me, Brainstorm, Accumulated Knowledge adn Intuition I'm certain that the deck will do fine in this format.
This is my Pre Rotation build for those of you who wish to be rude an cruel.

3 Nightscape Familiar
4 Toshiro Umezawa

4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Counterspell
3 Cunning Wish
2 Engineered Plague
4 Fire/Ice
2 Intuition
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
3 Power Sink
2 Prophetic Bolt
2 Rewind
3 Vampiric Tutor

2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Forbidden Orchard
6 Island
3 Mountain
3 Polluted Delta
1 Sulfurous Springs
2 Swamp
3 Underground River

SB
1 Capsize
1 Crop Rotation
2 Energy Flux
2 Engineered Plague
1 Evacuation
1 Flameshot
1 Foil
1 Gush
1 Misdirection
2 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Reclaim
1 Shattering Pulse

My Post Rotation doesn't seem as mean but it will work out just fine.
The deck has plenty of tricks to deal with things such as Deed and Hand disruption goes away once you have a Toshiro out.

4 Toshiro Umezawa
3 Flametongue Kavu

4 Fact or Fiction
4 Counterspell
3 Cunning Wish
3 Engineered Plague
4 Fire/Ice
2 Night of Souls' Betrayal
3 Mana Leak
2 Rewind
3 Prophetic Bolt
2 Smother
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Forbidden Orchard
8 Island
3 Mountain
3 Polluted Delta
4 Swamp

SB
4 AEther Vial
4 Stifle
1 Coffin Purge
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Rushing River
1 Disenchant
3 Duress

The deck has a lesser Sideboard than tog but it still holds well and if Toshiro hits the board then tog is out of luck. The deck can store up mana well and has a better chance of dealing with the major aggro decks like Goblins, Affinity, UG Madness, and Control decks like Rock will have a hard time catching up to a double FoF.

I want anyone's opinion on this deck so please give me some feedback.

[HazaredTheOmega]

I dont really understand the concept? its like tap forbidden orchard to copy counterspell in graveyard burn 1 remove from game? Heck i think we should all just find a way to abuse witness in extended since it doesnt remove cads from game. Maybe if you can find a game winning instant in teh graveyard.....

[dark_knight_307]

With the combo out, you can counterspell from the yard as long as you use an orchard to pay for it.

[Dark Light]

hmm looks like I need to explain the combo a little.

Step 1) have an orchard in play
Step 2) get a NoSB out or a Plague naming Spirits
Step 3) get Toshiro out

When you want to play a spell that's an instant from the grave
Tap the Orchard. A spirit will come into play and die and you can use that mana to pay for the spell.

[dark_knight_307]

Yeah, I was a little vague on the details, but that is generally what I meant.

[LordOfWei]

So, basically, he has a permanent Yawgmoth's Will in play. Not bad. I know Toshiro was breakable the second I saw him, and Extended is the place to break him. The combo is actually more balanced that I thought it was; he can garuntee that he gets the combo pieces pretty easily, and combat against control decks. He's pretty much running eight copies of a -1/-1 engine (1 NoSB, 2 Plague, 2 Intuition, 3 Vamp. Tutor), seven of Toshiro (4 Toshiro, 3 Vamp. Tutor), and seven of the Orchard (4 Orchard, 3 Cunning Wish for Crop Rotation). NoSB and Plague are great against Goblins, and the Fire/Ice, plus all the other control can keep off the aggro decks.

[mastra]

I playtested your deck and though the concept is quite solid, its speed is debatable. A creature based combo seemed very easily to break under the pressure of affinity and scepter's chant.

[Dark Light]

My pre rotation build did has some trouble and yes it isn't a speed demon but, it does well vs. Affin with NoSB in the Post Rotation. This will give me a good chance at countering their spells before the get too big and the Discple will go away. I made it work. Besides there is enough burn spells to finish the game later.

[Dommo]

I dunno. It seems pretty solid, but it lacks the speed I feel is needed to survive an affinity onslaught. What turn does it usually kick in? If it doesn't do so on turn 4 consistently, then I don't think it can hold up against affinity.

[Dark Light]

The fact that you have the ability to counter most of thier creatures with NoSB and counter their spells that would hold them up. My usual things is I counter turn two which will most likely be a Ravager and then turn four a Engineered plague to deal with the cleric or an NoSB to make the Fire/Ice take out two frogmites. The Burn and counter strategy is my basic plan vs. the deck and the reason I never played Counter burn was it would fizzle. With this the Toshiro can come into play whenever you feel necessary.
The fact is if you play at Affinity's pace you will be outrun. If you play at your own they will slow down to a hault. Stick to the plan besides a Toshiro out when you play a Smother means you can play it again. Fire/Ice really shines in this match where you can take out multiple creatures and have it brought back and play Ice. I was thinking of playing Horobi but the deck is cruel enough with a Flametongue Kavu. This is pretty much the new tog for Extended when it rotates.