Block Rock B/G

[flash242424]

What do you think about this :b:/:g:? Tell me...

Creatues(15)
4-Sakura Tribe Elder
4-Jugan, the Rising Star
4-Kodama of the North Tree
3-Kokusho, the Evening Star

Speels(22)
4-Rend Spirit
4-Horobi Wisper
4-Kodama’s Reach
4-Time of Need
4-Psychic Spear
2-Cranial Extraction

Lands(23)
10-Florest
10-Swamp
1-Shizo, Death’s Storehouse
1-Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
1-Boseiju, Who Shelters All


SideBoard:
4-Hideous Laughter
4-Wear Away
4-Rend Flesh
3-Eradicate

[Jadedgeek]

Not a bad start at all; most of the changes I'm going to suggest are to similarly functioned cards.

first off, yukora > jugan; I'd switch those too in your beater slot

Rend spirit is good, but with sakura and reach, swallowing plague is amazing here, as you can pretty much kill anything except for kodama of the north and indestructibles, even non-spirits, and gain some life; it is a sorcery however, and you may find sickening shoal more to your liking as an instant (and it even kills indestructibles, if y'ever see one :P).

I would make time of need Sensei's Divining top; you're not doing anything besides maybe spearing turn one anyway, and you'll find your legendary threats pretty consistently. Divining top, particularly with the shuffling, will generally help you find anything you need.

as for sb, I'd cut eradicate and rend flesh if you put plague or shoal in the md, and I'd put whichever one out of those to that you didn't md in the sb. this frees up slots for distress or nezumi shortfang for your control matchup

Well, those're my suggestions, good luck =)

[Oblivionx89]

I would try to reduce it to 3 Kodama of the North and 3 Kokusho, and then try to add a 3 or 4 drop. Maybe Thief of Hope? NoSB works too.

[Jadedgeek]

I don't think a 3 drop is really needed, tho if you were going to use one, I'd actually say gnarled mass :P Though green genju could work too. turn 3, you really either want to use a 4 drop or cast reach most of the time with this deck. and kodama is really good enough to be a 4 of if you've got the room :P

[Oblivionx89]

I like NoSB better than Kodama of the South in this deck. Drop the Time of Needs, they are unnecessary

[Jadedgeek]

Kodama of the south would be horrible in the deck. if you mean kodama of the north, trust me, it's handy against everything except ww. Very much so. I'd cut the time of needs for NoSB though... but then divining top is better. :P If I was going to maindeck a blanket effect though, it'd probably hideous laughter imo; NoSB should be sb.

[Oblivionx89]

I thought you were talking about kodama of the south, Jadedgeek. You said 4 drop and Kodama of the North costs 2GGG.

[Oblivionx89]

I thought you were talking about kodama of the south, Jadedgeek. You said 4 and I automatically assumed you were talking about a 4 drop. Kodama of the North should not be a 4-of. The only legends that should be 4-ofs is Kokusho

[Jadedgeek]

Kodama of the north you want to make sure you see every game, and in any game you DON"T particularly want to see him every game, he dies pretty easily while blocking. if nothing else, I WOULD put a 4th in the sb against any deck that lays a swamp or a mountain. kokusho hasn't done enough for me in any matchup except sligh to warrant a 4 of, and kodama is still better :P The 4 drop was largely referring to yokura though. or in my case, hideous laughter as well.

[Skeletorvsheman]

Hero's Demise could be good since there might be a somewhat large amount of legendary creatures in block, also it is a 2cc instant.

[Bastard_Sun]

hero's demise is more of a SB card unless you are running Iwamori. Essentially it just makes him cost 3GGB for a 5/5 trample, when he comes into play you and your opponent each discard a card lol. Iwamori did me good in limited, but i dont see much (I'm not saying none at all) of him being useful over Yokura taco bell.

[DroNugz420]

3xDivining Top
4xGreen Genju
4xHorobi's Whisper
2xCranial Extraction
3xSickening Shoal

4xHana Kami
3xNezumi Shortfang
4xSakura Tribe Elder
3xWicked Akuba
3xIsao, Enlightened Bushi
2xKodama of the North Tree
3xKokusho

10x Swamp
10x Forest
1x Shizo
1x Okina

Pretty Self Explanatory...The only real problem I can see here is with Isao. If anything, I'd go with Granled Mass over it, although I like the bushido 2 and regenerate.

[Jadedgeek]

needs one more land and kodama's reach :P Other than that, not bad; I"ve been thinking about hana kami myself, I just don't know where I'd put it in.

[flash242424]

I agree the main deck need 23 lands, sakuras and kodama's reach.
The Jugan is a bad card in this deck because the board never have 1-2 creatures and when jugan die, i have no target to the 5 counters.
I sugest 2 jugan, 3 kokusho's and 3 kodama's north with this list i got a 4 free slot's.
I need a good card for this 4 free slots... Tell me one..

[Jadedgeek]

I wouldn't use jugan at all myself *shrugs* Yukora, however, is some good :) Other'n that, I'm still a major advocate of divining top over the time of need, if you're still running that. if not, but still don't have top, throw that in. other than that... hideous laughter and swallowing plague are nice removal in the format, and one might consider wear away to be a maindeck-able card, considering the prevalence of jitte, day of destiny, hondens, and genju; I personally have it in my build, along with the afforementioned removal, as ww just gives this deck fits solely based on jitte, day and 8 1/2 tails :P

[Grizzmo]

//NAME: KBC Rock
// Land fixing and deck stacking
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Kodama's Reach
3 Sensei's Divining Top
// Beats
4 Yukora the Prisoner
3 Kokusho, the Evening Star
2 Wicked Akuba
// Board control
3 Rend Flesh
3 Horobi's Whisper
4 Hideous Laughter
3 Wear Away
// Discard
4 Psychic Spear
// Land
12 Swamp
11 Forest
SB: 4 Hero's Demise
SB: 3 Eradicate
SB: 1 Wear Away
SB: 3 Night of Souls' Betrayal
SB: 3 Nezumi Graverobber
SB: 1 Kokusho, the Evening Star

Just thought I'd add my $0.02 to this thread.

Hero's Demise is definatly good vs sligh (especially since it's not arcane) and ww.

I think maindeck Wear Away is definatly needed, though I guess it's a matter of taste.

I'm unsure if there should be some lifegain in there besides Kokusho to counter burn. The green one, the name escapes me at the moment, and swallowing plague are both decent enough. Once can't be fizzled, the other will take a creature too but yield less life. I'm in favour of the former if any are to be used.

[fooligan]

you should change the title to "block rocking beats

[Bastard_Sun]

since your running the psychic spears, why not run a couple goryo's vengance to try and get some extra swings out of your Yokura's and kokusho's. maybe put em in over the akuba's.

[gepsy]

why don't you use yukora instead of kodama, he comes into play first and he's immune to horobi's whisper.

[Jadedgeek]

Gepsy: there are 3 kodama's: The useless center tree, then the 4 mana south tree and the 5 mana north tree. THe south tree comes in at same time as yukora, but you're right, it's vulnerable to whisper, and only a 4/4. the other, however, comes down a turn later, but surprisingly enough, is quite invulnerable where horobi's whisper is concerned. and where swallowing plague is concerned. as well as sickening shoal, rend spirit, etc. Kodama of the north tree is a better creature in this deck than yukora definately, while the south tree would be far worse. That said, north tree AND yukora should both be in most builds of the deck, though the one you're refering to is a lot more creature heavy then most builds (at least, the one I think you're refering to), and I would prefer to test it to say that for sure.

[Bastard_Sun]

its not useless, you just need 4 other spirits to make its soulshift useful

[DroNugz420]

Cok Block Rock

3xDivining Top
4xGreen Genju
4xHorobi's Whisper
3xCranial Extraction
2xHideous Laughter
2xEradicate
3xSickening Shoal

4xHana Kami
3xNezumi Shortfang
4xSakura Tribe Elder
3xBudoka Pupil/Ichiga, Who Topples Oaks
2xKodama of the North Tree
3xKokusho

10x Swamp
10x Forest
1x Shizo
1x Okina

Some changes...a little more removal....and the Pupil can help w/ the beats.

[Jadedgeek]

horobi's whisper is like. 50 times better than eradicate. especially with it's synergy with this deck.

[DroNugz420]

So what's wrong with both..if anything you eradicate their big threats and control the board with whispers.

[Jadedgeek]

well. I don't like eradicate honestly, but as for what's wrong with both... really, nothing, I just didn't see the whispers t'be honest, sorry about that

[The R0CK]

you should really play hideous laughter maindeck, cos they're simply broken against WW,RG spirits and Sligh. However, this block is very low on mass-removal spells, so having one that's instant, more than playable and , why not, spliceable, is great.:b:

[The R0CK]

initially, i didnt like eradicate too, but i thought WOW! of whispers....
however, playing and playing, now i love eradicate, since he stops graveyard effects of dragon except for kokusho, and many times just "eradicate" the opponent's best threat... forever.
Whispers... i've never been able to splice it in B/G... bah..

[Sirsoosage 234]

a version of this deck that has been successful is the rock deck that splashes blue for meloku. It has won 2 block modo tournaments, it is quite similar to the decks posted on this thread.

[Grga]

Could you post a decklist of that deck with blue?
I've seen some versions with hana kami and gifts ungiven, any opininos on those?

[Sirsoosage 234]

3 kodama north tree
2 meloku
3 kokusho
4 sakura
2 wear away
4 reach
3 toplet
3 horobi's whisper
3 sickening shoal
4 hideous laughter
2 time for need
2 gifts ungiven
2 cranial extraction
10 forest
10 swamp
1 okina
1 island
1 tendo ice bridge

[shortguy881]

You are teetering on MBC. This deck looks just like it with some green splashed for acceleration and green finishers. If thats what your aiming for then make it mono-black and get rid of the green. Other wise focus more on the beats like the kodama north tree, kokusho, kami of the hunt, thief of hope, and more spirits, and add spells like kadama's might oh and you cant forget LFG then add devoring greed for the finisher

[Jadedgeek]

Shortguy: now you're trying to make the deck BG spiritcraft, which is folly. this build is superior to MBC, based solely on accel, top/shuffle, and kodama of the north tree. :P

[Sirsoosage 234]

You are teetering on MBC. This deck looks just like it with some green splashed for acceleration and green finishers. If thats what your aiming for then make it mono-black and get rid of the green. Other wise focus more on the beats like the kodama north tree, kokusho, kami of the hunt, thief of hope, and more spirits, and add spells like kadama's might oh and you cant forget LFG then add devoring greed for the finisher
you are talking about a spiritcraft deck, and those suck. My logic, i dont want to get destroyed by hideous laughter or any other board control cards. Having kodama of the north tree is a good finisher and the shufflers are too good not to play. Also why would i play mbc and get owned by hondens or any umezawa's jitte?

[Vapreppy]

I have been fooling around with almost that same decklist. I made a few changes to provide a little more synergy and to focus more on my win conditions.

Main Deck
Creatures (13)
3 Kodama of the North Tree
4 Kokusho, the Evening Star
2 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder

Removal (14)
2 Cranial Extraction
2 Wear Away
3 Sickening Shoal
4 Hideous Laughter
3 Horobi's Whisper

Spells (11)
4 Kodama's Reach
2 Time of Need
2 Goryo's Vengeance
2 Gifts Ungiven

Lands (23)
10 Forest
1 Island
1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
10 Swamp
1 Tendo Ice Bridge



My card choices and reasons:

4 Kokusho: This one was a tough call to make. The more games I played the more I realized I was using her as a win condition more so than anything else. Tutoring up for her more so than Kodama or Meloku. Upping her to 4 increased the percentages of putting her into play 3-4 times a game.

2 Cranial Extraction: I have seen more decks removing this and some adding. Personally it's really only there to combat rival kokusho or rival extraction.

2 Wear Away: It was either this or reweave. The splice gave this the nod due to other choices. With the 2 main Wear's I can work better against Jitte, WW Legend, Honden.dec, etc. Basically, it's to even out the 1st game odds. (This almost became ToN 3 and Goryo 3)

2 Time of Need: Self Explanatory.

2 Gifts Ungiven: Time of Need more often than anything else. At least that seems to be what people let me have.

Goryo's Vengeance: As I began to rely more heavily on Kokusho as a finishing move, I found I wanted her in hand more often than not. This increases the odds of seeing her in play by a large margin. Plus the Synergy with Gifts is amazing. I have learned to NEVER gift for a Goryo. They will kill the Goryo every time.

0 Sensei's Divining Top: I am on the fence about this card. I have used the top alot and find the results average. It works great with shuffles. More often than not though the top just makes me keep 1 land hands with a top in them. In all I like it, but it has to sit out until I decide if it is worth losing a Kokusho or Meloku over.


My sideboard isnt set yet. It rotates around alot as I adapt the deck.

Tentatively:

2 Wear Away
2 Cranial Extraction
3 Waking Nightmare
2 Night of Souls Betrayal
2 reweave
4 ??

The last four slots are giving me fits. I can's seem to find what I want in there.

2 Wear Away: Bolster against Hoden, Jitte, etc

2 Cranial Extraction: Any black deck to remove Extractions and Eradicates.

3 Waking Nightmare: Mirror Match or Arcane/Splice decks

2 Night of Souls Betrayal: G/X spiritcraft decks

2 Reweave: Honden. Jitte, WW Legends, etc

The mirror match is pretty well covered. The tweaks and the Cranial/Waking tend to shore up that match.

WW Legends can be rough. The NoSB, Wear Away, and Reweaves combined with Hideous seems to help alot in playtesting.

Arcane/Splice decks get the nightmares and extractions. Can still be rough.

G/x Spiritcraft get the NoSB and Extractions. I still can't decide if I need more odds in that match. The deck lists vary too much, so I just try to attack the base of the deck.

Ponza hasn't been a true killer, but they can shut down the gifts engine. I might want to put an extra island in the board for those matches.

I still have 3 slots left and am unsure where I need to shore up the deck. I am very open to critisism/suggestions. I have only logged about 60 matches with the deck, but it has been performing VERY well all around. Most of the changes to the main have occured over the course of the last 25 matches. As I get more playtesting in I will update this list.


ttfn


The reweave has been proving itself time and again against legends and hondens. Ther number of times it has been a 3 for 1 is amazing.

[Sirsoosage 234]

for the last 3 spaces play 3 nezumi shortfang, he is a house vs control.

[Morgasm]

I' currently using this build, it is a Control\Combo Spiritcraft Rock:

4 STE
4 Hana Kami
4 Rootrunner
4 Thief of Hope
3 Kokusho
2 Kodama N

4 K Reach
4 Swallowing Plague
4 Horobi's Whisper
4 Souless Revival
2 Hideous Laughter

11 Forest
9 Swamp
1 Shizo
1 Okina

SB:
3 Wear Away
3 Cranial
1 Hideous Laughter
3 Rend Spirit

Sideboard is incomplete because I'm not really sure what to put in there...
There are many ways to win...

Hana Kami and Souless revival are the soul of the deck... they give it consistency, synergi, and makes for a lot of plays per turn, providing you have the mana... Hana Kami all by itself generates card advantage, and when souless revival is available, that advantage is just sick ;)
Rootrunner is a must, not only it gets rid of genjus, but it is a nice 3/3, than can get a hana kami or thief of hope when it dies...

1. Having thief of hope in play, Hana Kami and souless revival, you can constantly sac the Hana to get souless, then souless Hana, etc etc... And at the same time drain life with the thief... if you don't have the thief in play you have a constant chump blocker...

2. With 11 lands (6 of which are G mana producers), and souless revival in the grave, you play rootrunner, then Hana Kami. Then, by the opponent's turn you sac Hana Kami for Souless R, then sac rootrunner to put a land on top of the opponent deck, soulshifting hana kami to your hand, then souless revive the rootrunner and you are set to replay on the next turn. With this you lock your opponent for good unless he already had the answers in hand... I've managed to pull this one off by the 7th turn.

3. Beat down with Kokusho or Kodama.

Also, if I had Sickening Shoal, I'd replace Swallowing plague with these for the simple fact that the shoal is an instant...

Overall it is a very good deck (I've only find the RDW matchup really difficult...), and is extremely synergistic (only STE breaks this, but hey...). Give it a go, and I'm sure you will like it...

[capep]

VaPreppy and SirSoosage: I like your builds quite a bit. However, i think that by adding blue you are really getting a bit too cute with the deck. Sure, meloku is a great finisher, but so are Kodama N and Kokusho. he doesnt seem all that necessary. Same goes for Gifts: yea, its cool and all, but does it really help you to win?

Think about it. All you really need to win is a kodama N and a fistful of removal. And cranial extraction for final judgement, should they have plains in their deck. There are no answers to him outside of creatures and judgement once he resolves, and only opposing cranials, hinder/defiance and discard to keep him from doing so. I say cut the blue and focus on doing one thing and one thing only: controlling the game until you can drop a threat they simply cant deal with.

To help withte control aspect, i think you are overlooking psychic spear--in this format it is tantamount to duress. Yes, i t cant grab final judgement from thier grip. You should be extracting that anyways! Almost every decent deck plays a good number of spirit/arcane cards and this can easily give you information on how the game is going to play out while simultaneously taking away one of thier best cards. This selective discard strategy is so strong vs control that i find myself wanting to play distress... althought hat would wreck my mana. So, spear it is.

I would build it something like this:
4 sakura tribe elder
3 kodama of the north tree
3 kokusho, the evening star

4 kodamas reach
4 Psychic Spear
3 Wear Away
3 Horobis Whisper
4 Sickening Shoal
3 Hideous Laughter
3 Cranial Extraction
2 Senseis Divining Top
2 Time of Need

1 Shizo
1 Okina
11 Forest
9 Swamp

Basically, this is VaPreppy's list -4 blue cards, -1 kokusho, -1 land, -2 goryos vengeance for +4 Psychic Spear, +1 Cranial Extraction, +1 Wear Away, +2 Sensie's Diving Top.

Seems stronger and more consistent without the extra color and plus the tops. The only thing i would kinda like is hana kami/soulless revival recursion, since it is so good vs. control, but i hear that guy named kodama of the north tree is pretty good vs control too... and he's more direct...
Anyways, feel free to commment, cricize, whatever. Its a good deck.

Phil.

[tapion minoshi]

the closest thing to a competitive list on this forum so far is capeps. i've been testing a lot for philly, and while i can say the GBu gifts version is waaay better, if you really want to stick to GB, leave the spears in the board, run shoal and laughter, and run shortfang.

[Vapreppy]

Thank you tapion. I am have made some changes to the Deck.

I am minus 1 Kokusho and minus one Meloku. I added in the two tops. I had to do this for one main reason. Arcane Splice was giving me a hassle. If I couldnt dig into a Kodama it was pretty much game over. Not counting the lucky 3rd turn Cranial that is.

Sickening Shoal has proven to be the big winner in the deck. I have steamrolled over a Kokushu -4/-4 with Kodama on the win. And lets face it. removing black critters is a pain for this deck.


Rewaeve has proved its worth and earned its spot permantely in the sideboard. I have gotten more 3 : 1 off the Reweave than I have off the HIdeous.

Goryo's is on the fence now though. I may up it to a 3rd time of need and 4th Kokushu but am not sure. Further playtesting will decide that one. Waking nightmares has moved up to Three Tragedies. Mana isnt usually a problem. Quite often I am sitting on 10 mana on turn 6-8. Being able to disable an entire hand in the arcane/splice or control matchup has been a huge bonus.

I am still ironing out the kinks in the deck, but so far it steamrolls well. I just have to keep reminding myself that it draws into threats ALOT. So I need to stop shipping 2 STE, 2 Land, TON, Reach, Hideous hands. Suprisingly they yank into cards very quickly..

ttfn

[Sirsoosage 234]

horobis whisper is way better than erradicate since you splice, and its an instant and 1 less

[Dranlin]

This is the build ive been using online, and it pretty much stomps anything ive come against.

4 Kokusho
3 Yukora
2 Kodama North
4 Tribe Elder

4 Psychic Spear
3 Rend Spirit
3 Kodama's Reach
3 Horobi Whisper
3 Hideous Laughter
2 Cranial Extraction
2 Time of Need
2 Sickening Shoal
3 Divining Top

9 Swamp
8 Forest
1 Shizo
1 Okina
3 Tendo Ice Bridge

Sideboard

2 Boseiju Who Shelters All (Actually thinking of losing these, I never use them)
3 Hero's Demise
3 Nights of Souls Betrayal
4 Wear Away
1 Iwamori
1 Cranial Extraction
1 Sickening Shoal

[Morgasm]

Has anyone tried my build??? Comments and criticism are welcome...

[tatalarata]

Hana Kami + Soulless revival + many arcane spells = good times.

U can play any 1 arcane spell forever with this trick. Also its nice to return a kokusho or 2 from time to time.

4 Hana Kami
4 Sakura
4 Kokusho
2 kodama north

4 kodamas reach
2 Rend Spirit
2 Rend Flesh
2 Horobis whisper
2 hideous laughter
2 wear away
2 soulless revival
2 swallowing plague
2 eradicate
2 waking nightmare

2 sensei divining top

12 forest
10 swamp

might seem random, but it has diversity to play against a wide field, and to have more choices with hana.

SB has Cranial, waking nightmare, distress, more removal, green genju, among others.

[grizzly bear]

has any one seen the latest combo for b/g? Its kind of big but it really hurts when it hits. this combos a real sleeper you might not figure out what your opponet is doing until its too late.

its very simple, since bok has reprinted the urzas set of card removal there has to be a way to get more out of it right, you bet

splinter and eradicate powerful as is but a devasting shut down with others.
myr landshaper :3: mana 1/1 noproblem. not until your land is an artifact and your opponent splinters your lands.

same goes for lifespark spellbomb and eradicate. just as a heads up i saw this in a fnm, i wasnt expecting it neither was any1 else.

boseiju is a must have if your runnin against monoblue

[grizzly bear]

also has anyone been using chittering rats/ soul foundry?
works with ravenous too.
jus wonderin.

[Deezy]

Neither myr landshaper nor lifespark spellbomb are legal in Block. Same with the cards in your second post. This is the CHK Block forum, not standard.

Soilshaper can be used to eradicate an opponent's land but it's still slow and janky. The earliest it can happen is turn 4 and only with an ideal set of conditions and nothing else happening on the table to deal with.

[capep]

after a day of testing heavily vs sankes, red aggro, white aggro, B/U arcane and G/W/u 5 color hondens, i have made a few changes, and they seem to be for the better. Yes, the spears belong in the board. Its pretty easy to beat arcane on the power of north tree alone, and they are kind of overkill. They were replaced by 4 hana kamis. Then, i cut one kokusho and one sickening shoal for 2 soulless revivals, cause they are too good with hana not to have in. Then i cut one land for a top after some more testing. The deck is nigh unstoppable. Its a house vs both aggro and control. That leaves this list:

4 sakura
4 hana
3 kodama N
2 kokusho

4 k. reach
3 extraction
3 top
3 wear away
3 shoal
3 whisper
3 laughter
2 timeofneed
2 revival

21 lands

The 21 seemed a bit low looking at the deck, but with kodamas reach and sakura, not to metnion revival splicing on the elder, 21 lands is plenty. Your deck thins out pretty fast and you get a lot of quality draws. besides, do we realy need more than 29 mana producers?

Also, all the three ofs look ugly, but the top realy allows that. Sure, it eats a bit of mana, but when you are splicing reival to get back your sakura tribe elder every turn, mana is not an issue, and you can realy keep those tops spinning. You'll see so much of your deck, sometimes in one turn if you realy need a certain card right now. If you're not a fan, take out the three tops and up three of those three ofs to four.

Its a really solid build, so far its beating everything that my team (with multiple people Qed) has been able to come up with...
Questions/Comments/Suggestions welcome, as always.
Phil.

[Jadedgeek]

Quite frankly, its not bad, but. my BG build will destroy it, and the only deck that is ever a problem for the deck, ww, is more easily dealt with by my build :P you have 5 win conditions, hana kami, which, yes, is nice and I wish I had room for it, but it's not horribly important, and it has 2 ways which, if you DRAW a win condition, can bring them back. this just seems too fragile and does too little against ww/samurai. to deal with creatures, I've got 3 laughter, 4 whisper and 3 swallowing plague. this often still isn't enough. take note there.

[capep]

jaded geek: yes, the samurai is a bit of a problem, as is final judgement. Decks with plains can be bad. The key here is the tops. Once i set them to spinning and shuffle a few times, i see all the cards i want, and the deck functions as though it actualy has more kill spells. Also, on the win condition count, dont forget time of need (that takes the count to seven), and really, cranial extraction. I have been in scenarios with this deck where i am extracting them every turn, but usually the oppnent scoops em up after the first two or three. This makes decking them a very viable option. This comes into play vs. Honden.dec, as well as other slow control v control matchups. As far as kill spell count, you are using swallowing plague over sickening shoal and running the one extra kill spell that i cut for a soulless revival. I admit that the life gain could be helpful, but sometimes you dont need that extra extraction and would love to pitch it to shoal for a good effect. Also, i dont liek the sorcery speed. Useful life gain is attractive, because in my testing the toughest deck was sligh backed with lots o burn, cause often he would beat me to 10-15 with creatures before i stabilize the board, then just throw a pair of yamabushis flames and a flame of the blood hand at my dome(or spike plice ray, or.. well you get the picture). By that point i would either be dead or at too low of a life to be able to attack with my amazing north tree, instead having to hold it back so that if he draws a creature, i dont lose to his stupid goblin cohort. Ishi-Ishi maindeck is also pretty bad, cause no matter what you are taking some damage off of him. However, i think that bringing a few vital surge out of the board would solve that problem.

Finally, you point out that your ten kill spells often arent enough--but while i only have nine cards that actually kill, i have four more that can replicate one if i drew one already (as well as being a chump blocker) in hana kami, and two more that can allow me to repeat that effect ad nauseum. It seems then, that while you have slightly more kill in the early game, i have a lot more in the late game. You know, while i am waiting to draw one of my five kill conditions. :)

thats all for me.

Phil.

[Jadedgeek]

The top is amazing; I run 4 of it myself :P however, I can still have a hard time finding the cards I need. I find time of need to be unnecessary; usually, I'd just prefer to draw into a win condition. it's cheaper that way :P the shoal's instant speed is very nice, I'll admit. I do run 3 of them in the board (largely for mbc matchup, replace the laughters with those and whispers with cranial extraction)... i'm not at my home comp, but I'll post my full list probably tomorrow. I don't really like extraction md, noting how many aggro decks there are, and it doesn't usually come out soon enough to help with the two cards that give this deck troubles: eight 1/2 tails and jitte :P Hana kami is the one card in my list that I'd like to find room for, I actually am thinking about replacing yukora the prisoner for it, but then to deal with the loss of win conditions, I would hafta put in soulless revival. mayhaps I can find room for that however *shrugs* Also, 21 land does still feel light to me, and I know how much the accel can do; it's a question of having the land you need turn 2 or 3. hmmmm. I think I need to think more about the build and what is needed and what isn't. let's get the scientists working on it :)

[capep]

jaded geek: eight and half tails just dies to hideous laughter though, right? vs. aggro decks the extractions can be pitched to shoals too kill most anything, and often there is one card you really need out of thier deck. As far as jitte, i am more concerned about it than most of the pros i have talked to about this deck. I run wear away for it, but many have been trying to convince me that simply killing all thier creatures is just better. They may be right. Wear away helps with other things though, like hondens and particularly genju.

As far as the hana/revival engine, i started without it and have been falling in love with it since i tried it. Its really, really powerful. try it for yourself.

as far as time of need, its mostly for my unconstructed sidebaord-- to allow me to play one ofs as though they were three ofs. Plus, it spins the top and gives me five north trees, my best kill condition. I just wish it were arcane...

phil.

[Jadedgeek]

*nods* gotcha for sb, but I don't really see many good sb legend options in black and green, tho maybe I'm missing something. 8 1/2 tails can be killed by hideous laughter, and that's one way to take them down if they can't pump him at all, but any pump, or if I don't see laughter, and he becomes a major problem.

As far as the pros being unconcerned with jitte and saying to kill all the creatures, I hafta say that the pros are trying to go counter the hype and thinking everyone's making a big deal outta nothing, and as a result they're making a mistake; Killing all their creatures is a lot easier said than done, especially the builds that run solely creatures, jitte and shining shoal :P and yes, wear away does work wonders; I run 4 md myself, but that's only because it seems that without searching or anything, ww can ALWAYS find more jitte's than I can find ways to kill them :P I think that's just bad luck tho.

As far as pitching cranial to shoal is concerned, I just don't like losing the card if I don't have to. block is a slower format, so generally that isn't necessary, and even if it was, I'd prefer to have a harder decision to make in the end, as that usually means I did well building the deck ;) Personally, I run 3 distress instead of extraction main, and 4 extractions sb. taking the one card usually is very helpful, and I rarely find myself having problems with control decks. like. ever. (3 kokusho 4 kodama 3 yukora = black with a lotta dead cards) And I just realized that my sb sickening shoals should be hero's demise... duh. :P

[capep]

what pump are you worried about from WW? if they play indomitable will, which is imo the only pump they should be running, then you most likely saw it when they played tallowwisp. And then all you have to do is target the 8.5 witha removal spell to make the indomitable will fall off. Then cast hideous laughter.

you may not be able to kill off all the creatures, but you can often kill off the one with the jitte, or simply block with hana kami or sakura and sac to keep counters off of it. with soulless revival in the deck, thats a permanent solution.

And as to the pitching cranial to shoal scenario: no, you're missing the point. Its not the format is slower, its that the spell is useful, arcane and costs zero mana. That means you can splice onto it way before you should be able to. Need to keep your hideous laughter? Turn five you can splice it, and kill a bigger creature. This effectively turns your cranial extraction into a hideous laughter... Same goes for soulless revival... it can let you splice and then replay hana kami with mana open way earlier than you should be able to. By paying zero mana but splicing onto it, you go down one card on teh inital spell, but go up one on the splice that you would not have been able to do if you hadn't gone down one card to pitch the shoal...

I havent begun work ona sideboard yet, but i'll probably start by filling out sets of spells from the maindeck...

Phil.

[Jadedgeek]

True about shoal, but I often find gaining 5 life to be the difference between winning games in the long run against the various aggro decks; gives me some breathing room, if nothing else.

and I've seen day of destiny played more than enough times to prepare for it (also taken care of by wear away), as it does mess the deck up reasonably well; now everyone trades with your kodama's, and hideous laughter becomes utterly useless :P

[Deezy]

Most of the WW decks I've played have run Otherworldly Journey which makes taking out a card like 8 1/2 Tails kind of a hassle. Journey'd out on Laughter then comes back immune to it and able to protect from targeted removal. Hideous Laughter actually hasn't been all that great for me since Journey/Day/Jitte keeps things around.

I expected WW to be a pretty easy matchup for B/G but it's actually beaten me as often as I've beaten it. Possibly more. By far the hardest matchup as there are a good amount of cards that mess you up (pale curtain screws up Kokusho/hana/revival, 8 1/2 allows them to dodge removal and block/bypass, jitte negates laughter, journey saves creatures and puts them back out of reach of laughter, blessed breath is a constant annoyance also). If they run tallowisps and cages it's even worse.

B/G and WW are the two top decks of block and I'd say it's a tossup between them.

[Deezy]

Btw here's the decklist I'm running atm.

LAND - 22
==========
10 x Forest
10 x Swamp
1 x Okina
1 x Shizo

CREATURES - 11
==========
2 x Kodama North
2 x Kokusho
2 x Yukora
1 x Ink-Eyes
4 x Sakura Tribe Elder

SPELLS - 21
==========
4 x Hideous Laughter
4 x Horobi's Whisper
4 x Cranial Extraction
4 x Kodama's Reach
2 x Time of Need
2 x Sickening Shoal
1 x Soulless Revival

ARTIFACTS - 6
==========
4 x Umezawa's Jitte
2 x Sensei's Top

SIDEBOARD - 15
==========
4 x Night of Soul's Betrayal
4 x Wear Away
4 x Hana Kami
3 x Soulless Revival


While the hana kami/revival chain is good, I've only really found it necessary against the mirror and decks with a lot of counters (sway).

NoSB goes in against any agro deck (snakes, WW, RG, sligh, etc..).

The jitte is there mostly to counter-hate other jittes without having a dead draw in wear away. It's not terribly useful since only 5 creatures would really use it, but it's actually won games for me a few times. I don't like feeling like I have to run them but welcome to Champions of Umezawa block.

[Mishra-]

Here's my build:

4 Sakura Tribe Elder
4 Kodama's Reach
4 Gifts Ungiven
2 Soulless Revival
2 Hana Kami
3 Hideous Laughter
1 Horobi's Laughter
3 Wear Away
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sosuke's Summons
3 Cranial Extraction
2 Psychic Spear
2 Rend Spirit
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
2 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
2 Kodama of the North Tree

11 Forest
7 Swamp
1 Island
3 Tendo Ice Bridge

Sideboard:
1 kokusho
1 soulless revival
1 wear away
1 hideous laughter
1 cranial extraction
1 psychic spear
3 waking nightmare
3 eradicate
1 jitte
2 vital surge

This deck has the answers to every deck out there.gifts with hana kami and soulless revival and arcane spells work great.the sosukes summons is nice with elders.

[^Kassius^]

I see WW will be a top contender in block.
Hana Kami recurs arcane spells, and the arcane spell that completly stops WW is... Ethereal Haze!! :cool:
So, I think we could remove U splash and add some W splash. It provides the mentioned combo to stop any pure beatdown deck. We only have to get rid of those Samurai of the Pale Curtain.
Ethereal Haze is better than Meloku stopping aggro decks, and we can go off a different way (Kokusho, Thief of Hope...)

In the other hand, I consider including Rootrunner a must. It is a toolbox itself in this deck: it recovers Hana Kami or Thief of Hope, gets rid of Genjus, and is a decent attacker!

[Jadedgeek]

That is a really good idea actually; tho if I were to go with it, I'd actually consider running both white and blue, for gifts ungiven. I think I'm going to fit that in now, and I know just where; thanks :)

[Mishra-]

ya good diea.i forgot haze was arcane.also, didnt think of rootrunner, ill give it a try, but to be honest, ive been focusing on t2 a lot more then block atm.

[^Kassius^]

Well... this can be an alternative deck for T2. Birds of Paradise can fix your mana base amanzingly but I think this deck must pass a Block season before jumping into T2 :rolleyes:.
Anyway, it will be a strong T2 deck, but let the time pass... let the deck improve in block.

[des invderz]

maybe not birds because its not a spirit and this is a spirit deck right??
---------------------------------------------------
1 tourney pack=11$
3 boosters=9$
4 crome moxes=4000$
assistance with building the deck=5$
getting your deck stolen by some hobo on your way to the tournement=priceless

[Jadedgeek]

Um. no. It's NOT a spirit deck. and there's no good spirit accel anyway. what're you smoking? :P

[des invderz]

Creatues(15)
4-Sakura Tribe Elder-ok
4-Jugan, the Rising Star
4-Kodama of the North Tree -take away, dont need
3-Kokusho, the Evening Star
add 4 thief of hopes
Speels(22)
4-Rend Spirit-either take this out or take whisper
4-Horobi Wisper
4-Kodama’s Reach
4-Time of Need
4-Psychic Spear
2-Cranial Extraction
add more discard cards and consider megrim
also add goryo's vengence x4!!!!
Lands(23)
10-Florest
10-Swamp
1-Shizo, Death’s Storehouse
1-Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
1-Boseiju, Who Shelters All
good

SideBoard:
4-Hideous Laughter
4-Wear Away
4-Rend Flesh
3-Eradicate
deck looks in pretty good shape,
just add goheis x4
"id fill the rest of the deck with some efficient creatures. I like thief of hope, tribe elder and hana kami, Add some Nezumi Cutthroats, Ogre merauders Nezumi graverobbers and creatures of that sort. Or spirits like Kami of the hunt, soilshapers, Budoki Pupil etc if you want spirits. Small casting cost, good beat down, and have tricks to go with them. Vanilla creatures arent necesarily a bad thing, but a similar creature with a trick to go with it for the same cost is always a good thing." very similar to my deck..

[Jadedgeek]

Alright, whoever decided that theif of hope is better in this deck than kodama of the north tree needs to just turn in their dci card and walk away in shame right now :P Btw- Megrim is not in block, so obviously, they don't know what they're talking about. Goyro's vengeance is unnecessary, soulless revival would be better, as by the time vengeance would be useful, revival will get you the creature back more permanently and let it go to the yard. Jugan really isn't all that spectacular; more creature kill or some kind of artifact hate would be really nice instead. I agree with no rend spirit, try going with swallowing plague or sickening shoal instead. if nothing else, go with hero's demise. Hideous laughter belongs somewhere. Also, gohei's is almost useless :P no divining top.... time of need makes a pretty useless 4 of when you're looking for 8 "same" creatures in the dragon legends, if you're hanging jugan in. hana kami would be better than something.... I dunno. that deck just doesn't feel like it's entirely sure what it's doing to me; and top is a big missing card. it needs answers to black and red, which is why I want to keep kodama in and put an x kill spell instead of rend spirit. it does NOT need more discard (tho I'd make the discard distress, since you have no other way of dealing with umezawa's jitte). hideous laughter is highly maindeckable as a 2 or 3 of in the current format. thief of hope doesn't stem against an aggro deck well enough to be useful, and would prove better as a chump blocker than a life gain method in this deck :P At any rate, it looks like it's trying to be spiritcraft and BG control at the same time, and it's just a diluted form of both to me. and the creature and removal choices all leave something to be desired. and more discard in this format is a horrible option. sorry to rant about that... but... wow. if that was an article somewhere, i feel sorry for the guy who wrote it :P