[DIS] BR Aggro-Control

[Siggy]

Has there been any thought given to Shuko? I played vs a deck with it that was a more of an aggro deck, but he was making a ball lightning every turn almost with those (minus trample) but still, might be worth a shot?

[wyatt290]

Its not worth it the deck should be played like a control deck will win more often dont get me wrong the deck caN be played aggro but its unessesary you can can win most games by having card advantage.

on a diffeent note blue splash...

@ rakavolver/fooligan;

why dont you guys have the blue splash in your lists its very good it works wonders late game when your outta creatures to play and it makes a great pre-combat trick often as well and the power to return nekratall and kill of one of their lastest played creatures is great heres my list.....

4 frostling
3 lyzolda blood witch
3 nekrattall
4 torry soh
4 rakdos guildmage
4 ravenous rats

4 hit//run
4 seal of fire
4 volcanic ahmmer
4 rise//fall

4 blood crypt
3 watery grave
1 steam vent
3 rakdos carnarium
2 dimir aqueduct
4 mountain
5 swamp

comments

[Rba]

Well, im not rakavolver, but i sure as hell have played Ravnica block long enough to tell someone that using 5 karoo lands in a deck is just stupid. Im not trying to be mean here, but 5 is 2 too many. Slim that down to 3. The blue splash isnt needed, the only card you run that's blue is Fall. If your splashing blue for fall, your gonna lose. Your using too many shocklands too if your going to use Karoo's. Cut them down to 6 shocklands when using Karoos and add more basics.

That's just the land base. I see 0 dark confidant, 0 shock, 0 jittes. I suggest putting in Confidants and going more aggro rather than control so you can keep up with the rest of the field of play. If you do put in confidants, take out the Hit/Run, Revealing Hit/Run off of Confidant hurts, bad.

-4 Hit//Run
-3 Watery Grave
-1 Steam Vents

+4 Confidant
+4 Sulfurous Springs

-1 Lyzolda
-1 Frostling
-2 Dimir Aquaduct
+4 Jitte

-1 Rave Rats
-1 Soh
+1 Mountian
+1 Swamp

The blue splash isnt necessary honestly.

[wyatt290]

Well, im not rakavolver, but i sure as hell have played Ravnica block long enough to tell someone that using 5 karoo lands in a deck is just stupid. Im not trying to be mean here, but 5 is 2 too many. Slim that down to 3. The blue splash isnt needed, the only card you run that's blue is Fall. If your splashing blue for fall, your gonna lose.

The blue splash isnt necessary honestly.

Oh ok id just like to tell that this list placed 3rd at regionals its a very good deck and the bouncelands are why this list is better than yours and anyone elses they rarley hhurt you i was sceptical about the list as well untill i played and found out that they worked well.

Why are you playing Dark Confidetn yes i realize hes card advantage but your already gaining card advantage if your play a discard dekc which is essentially what this deck is.
And hit//run is amaznig what happens if your opponent paly down Simic sky swallower then you lose i know i dont automaticly lose i have outs its called hit//run.

Jitte i will aggree with you should be in here i dont not own jittes i traded mine becuase i will have no use for them once they rotate out of standard.

And your right the blue splash isnt nessascery but its amzing it will rarley hurt you in games and given the option to return a creature back form your graveyard after a WoG or sometthing to that extent is very good.And the fact that you will use rise often to benfit you in a situations a lot more than just having fall/ in your hand.

shock is not quite as good as seal of fire i find there are ups and downs to both but right now at the moment im gonna ahve to stick with seal the element of surprise is great but id rather my opponent just waste a nantuko husk or sometinhg like that.

Whats happens with any of your lists if someone lpays down loxodon heirarch i know i play nekratall but form what i see form your list jitte is about the only thing that will take care of him, Well except fooligans he has little goblin man thats make him ont be able to block.


following cards im considering maindeck for the benifit of cnotorl and aggro matches.

blackmail: Why not a first turn discard spell telling me 2 other cards in their hand is pretty sweet pull a land with this follow this a FALL//rise and you just discarded 3 cards by turn 2 lets say you went first after their land they have 4 cards in hand and 3 if they played something.

New coldsnap :t: lands: Well the bouncelands rarley hurt or get palyed on turn 2 but with theses alnds i can keep a hand with 1 of these and and any other land and wont get screwed fro a few turns.

Moroii: well i always have a t least one blue land and a 4/4 flier on turn 4 isnt bad but im not leaning towards aggro with this deck more towards copntrol but definitly will consider him.

Electrolize: id defintily play it in the sidebaord for sure for against my bad aggro matches for sure. It woulkd come in against every aggro deck.

[gage]

i would run moroii in the deck for sure.hes great after making your the other player discard they hand


Go fix your spelling in your last post

[fooligan]

i play condidant because the cards are ensured, aswell as the fact that i want to be playing 12 2 drops and 25 creatures... my curve suits it.

i used to play alot of discard, and sometimes it worked and others it didnt... and eventualy i was made to see that i didnt want to be taking that chance with my cards in such a sleek aggro deck...


the halifax list is sort of a different deck then mine.. its much more spell orientred and plays a higher curve... its hard to just force one aspect of that onto a deck without taking the others....
instead of playing bob and ensured card advantage, your build goes for higher card quality and more potential card advantage... this also makes you less aggro (the reason i built this deck was because i needed to play aggro for once).
now dont get me wrong.... i do think that build is very solid and obviously has some edges in matchups its better then me in.... but i love the way my deck works right now... but be assured that i would love to play that deck if i had the duals for it, and my friend wasnt stealing my rivers...
it seems like fun and ive been wanting to play stupid nekratall for a while.

[Rba]

Ok then Wyatt. You play that deck, ill play Magnivore.

Say i win the roll.

T1, Island, Slight, Go

Your T1

Tapped Crypt go.

My T2

Vents, take 2, izzet signet.

Your T2

Bounceland bouncing back the crypt.

My T3

Mountian, Stone Rain your bounceland.

This is the reason why bouncelands arent that good. Theyre good no doubt, but if your opponents playing LD/Bounce, that sets you back TWO TURNS, and it allows for them to get a jump on you and then you just cant. TWO TURNS.

Rakdos isnt meant for control really. It's meant for 80% dropping threats consistantly aggro and about 20% for some effective removal. You need to keep dropping threats each and every turn to keep up with such decks as Husk/Zoo/Gruul/Simic. Otherwise your just going to scrub out.

[wyatt290]

LMFAO!!!

why do people always think i start out going land go bounceland it rarley happens i dont play bouncland either aginst magnivore for one thats the worst paly ever.
And what happens against magnivore if i win the dice roll doesnt that mean i win the game no turn 2 bounce spell oh you lose.

And ok maybe our metagame is different it slightly varies week to week my meta is sually control with the odd aggro deck here and there husk doesnt exist in my meta simic aggro is on the rise but it leans more otwards control zoo completley doesnt exist my meta consists of firemane control grull aggro G/W/b vitu ghazi control snakes on a plane and a few other control decks.

Btw the bouncelands are getting cut form the deck and the tap lands from coldsnap the ones that come into play tapped are going in becuase theyre less risk against decks like magnivore that will take advantage against those decks.

[fooligan]

Whats happens with any of your lists if someone lpays down loxodon heirarch i know i play nekratall but form what i see form your list jitte is about the only thing that will take care of him, Well except fooligans he has little goblin man thats make him ont be able to block.
i also play char, hands and seals (which can nicly 2 for one them with most of my deck...) the new knight kills it for no cards... augermages first strike/ 3 power coupled with alot of things wrks well...

i dont play bouncelands b/c the top of my actual curve is 3 mainly concentated on drops there in... so id rather not screw up my curving...
bouncelands are decent in other decks though... even with the threat of magnivore.... but you must accept that you are severly weakening your day against them by playing them... if youre playing 22 lands and 4 or more bouncelands they will become a factor inthe matchup...

2ndly... i dont reccomend cutting all the karoos for cipt lands... one big reason to run citp lands is that they are essentialy like running more sources... and with the higher curve and shakier mana base of that deck one would think taking the source count down to the level of my deck would be hazardous...
im thinking of adding acouple of knights to my sb... for now... just against the amount of white in the format and that they deal with yosie quite nicely..

[Rakavolver]

I am aware a third color makes the deck quite powerful .. er. I personally am in awe of Rakdos Augermage however, and its casting cost is pretty rough at BBR. If I played a 3rd color I would certainly test blue but I might be drawn to white. How ironic Terry Soh doesn't think Augermage his Invitational card is playable in Standard. I don't think he's tested our stuff yet.

Discard hurts control but burn hurts everyone. I'm not ecstatic about the discard in Standard but Coldsnop will certainly strengthen it as a strategy, and as usual I would not discourage anyone from trying. I just favor burn and wouldn't try to mix both in equal measure.

[Eternal Wizard]

Ok. I was invited to the party so here I am with a different take on Rakdos. First the deck I'm now playing:


Land (22)
2 Rix Maadi
2 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
4 Blood Crypt
4 Sulfurous Springs
4 Swamp
4 Mountain

Creatures (20)
4 Frostling
4 Bob
4 Rakdos GM
4 Rakdos AM
4 Lyzolda

Spells (18)
4 Volcanic Hammer
4 Cry of Contrition
4 Rise/Fall
4 Seal of Fire
2 Jitte


SB is still under construction.


Now I realize that the thread says BR Aggro-Control and my build is more Aggro-Discard but I've been doing very well with my build. The ability to force your opponent to discard 4 cards (and possibly kill a creature in play) on turn 3 is a force to be reckoned with vs. any deck.
I would strongly advise adding the third color. In my build it's blue and I only need it for Rise. Since Rise is a mid-late game play splashing 4 lands for the blue is enough and it does not hurt my R/B land count any.

@Rakavolver: Acctually I am a football fan (american football that is). :)
I understand your trepidation (sp?) with using discard but look closer at CoC and Rise/Fall and you will see that neither suffers from the weekness of triditional discard. Said weakness being its uselessness in late game situations. With Fall you have Rise for when it shows late and your opponent is empty handed; and with CoC you have the ability to have instant speed discard so when opponent has an empty (or 1 card in) you can force the discard of the card he draws next turn (barring it being an instant obviously). Also since you are already running Rise/Fall it seems that you really could benifit from the blue splash.
Just some thoughts for you to mull over if you want.

Well, before I get into the particulars of my build and my choices I'll wait for any ?'s or comments. Both are welcome.

Ciao.

[Silent tooth]

Has anyone thought about any changes with coldsnap coming out soon. I myself splash blue in for rise/fall. This is what i am playing and the changes when colsnap comes legal.

Lands
4 Steam Vents
4 Blood Crypt
3 Sulfurous Springs
3 shivan reef
4 Swamp
4 Mountain

Creatures
4 Frostling
4 Bob
3 Rakdos GM
3 Rakdos AM
4 Lyzolda
4 light serpent with coldsnap now it's hippie's

Spells
4 Cry of Contrition
4 Rise/Fall
4 Seal of Fire
4 hit/run will switch with 2 grim harvest 2 brain pry wwith cold snap

side board undecited....

I like the synergy with serpent and harvest. reacouring serpent( ball lighting) each turn works for me

[Eternal Wizard]

Um...... Bob and Hit/Run in the same deck? You're a braver man than me.

[wyatt290]

Im glad to hear that there are some other people here that use their brains and accept that the splash of blue is good.

Im playing the original list fomr the halifax regionals that came 3rd i know the guy that has the list weve played in a few big tournaments aginst each other.

@silent tooth: Dude your brave as hell your runnign hit and run asnd bob one hit with bob is prolly gonna make you lose the game which is very funny.
and another thing lighning serpent is **** in this deck(pardon my french).

and blackmail is better then cry of contritin every day becuase it lets you see 3 cards and lets you see what their next few plays may be.

[fooligan]

black mail gets better if you run fall...
but cry seems like it could be decent too in some circumstances... though i have been warned away from it in group discussion...
you will lose some games to your own bob when running hit... but dont let that stop you! its only something like .4 more damage per turn! go right on ahead, the pros did it at charelston!

i suppose the fact that i do not want to run rise//fall means im not using my brain... i think im going to have trouble taking you seriously if you go on like that all the time...
and one might note that halifax isnt the exactly the most impressive scene around... no offense to halifax players, but you know where im comming from...

EternalWizard:
thank you for accepting my erm,, invitation...
im curious as to the low jitte count... its the best removal around... and in my oppinion wholely superior to cry of contrition...
youre deck seems to put both players into top deck mode quite quickly but im a little iffy on wether you have enough bussiness to back it up, and wether you have the tools to beat topdecks... rise seems decent... but im just not sure how far your cards are stretching for you...

[Fireburns]

Well since EW has joined the party I posted the following post in the other B/R thread and i'm in the middle of playing sevearl games on MTGO and i'll post the results here.


Well here is my decklist:
4 Wrecking Ball
4 Cry of Contrition
4 Rise // Fall
4 Seal of Fire
1 Demonfire

2 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
2 Watery Grave
4 Blood Crypt
4 Sulfurous Springs
4 Swamp
4 Mountain
2 Rakdos Carnarium

4 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
4 Rakdos Guildmage
3 Rakdos Augermage
2 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Scorched Rusalka
4 Hypnotic Specter

Here are the reasons for a few card choices.
Scorched Rusalka - I am a fan of just burning the opponent period, it's a shame that Mogg Fanatic is so far off or else it would be my number one choice. You can T1 Scorched and T2 Cry and still sac SR for the haunt not only that but you can sac everything else for damage incase of fetters, targeted removal and opposing burn spells. I like to think of her as Lyzolda's Apprentice. Almost every creature in our deck has a big x on their head if not all of them not to mention our curve tops out at 4cc (wrecking ball in all decks, if not the Pit Dragon) so it's reall easy to have mana available for her activation, we do run 4 copies of Lyzolda, the Blood Witch.

Demonfire - The one copy may end up being 2 or 3 given how well the pit dragon works, but it's the best x spell available to us and i will end up with an empty hand 70% of the time making it uncounterable.

Rakdos Carnarium - ever have your Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace fetter'd? Or both? Just bounce it back to your hand and replay it. The Carnarium and easily become off color Boilerworks or Aqueducts.

Rakdos Pit Dragon - He can survive a pryoclasm which none of our creatures can do, He pumps for extra damage and he has doublestrike (70% of the time). Just play him after the opponent has a empty had or nothing that can harm the dragon and start swinging. 2 swings usually will end the game (http://forum.tcgplayer.com/showthread.php?t=82277&page=4#) once he's in play.


Does anyone else have Rain of Gore in their SB?

[fooligan]

i encourage both of our newer friends to try out the housey hand of cruelty... and card pool allowing, jitte... i just see myself with hypnotic spectres and rise//falls and other such stuff in the gruul or other creature based matchups instead of hands jittes, chars and plagued rusalkas and i get shudders...
hand is soo good, and pro white is a real boon in this format... especialy for our deck... hes also a 3/3... did i mention that...
in my oppinion this is a black deck that also plays red and the cards seem to reflect that...

oh, i have cut a mountain for a swamp from my main deck...

[vikramas1109]

i encourage both of our newer friends to try out the housey hand of cruelty... and card pool allowing, jitte... i just see myself with hypnotic spectres and rise//falls and other such stuff in the gruul or other creature based matchups instead of hands jittes, chars and plagued rusalkas and i get shudders...
hand is soo good, and pro white is a real boon in this format... especialy for our deck... hes also a 3/3... did i mention that...
in my oppinion this is a black deck that also plays red and the cards seem to reflect that...
oh, i have cut a mountain for a swamp from my main deck...I had hand of cruelty in my deck for a while...it just dies so quickly to everything. As per the other thread here is my current build:

I too prefer Frostling over Scorchy, for the reasons outlined by EW above. Of course, when Mogg Fanatic becomes legal again, this shouldn't be an issue.

I found room for 1x Demonfire, and I think that moving Hit/Run to the sideboard and adding Bobs and Seal of Fire instead would be a good idea. I hate the Carnarium, as I already explained - you don't want cards in your hand with this deck, ever. I will post in the other forum as well, I was turned off by the soccer/rugby talk also. Right now, my deck looks like this (also grudgingly adding two Jittes - god I hate this card and it needs to be banned in Type 2 immediately):

Land (22):
1x Rix Maadi
3x Watery Grave
2x Steam Vents
4x Blood Crypt
4x Sulfurous Springs
4x Swamp
4x Mountain

Creatures (20):
4x Dark Confidant (I took your advice EW and replaced the Specters)
4x Frostling
4x Lyzolda, Blood Witch
4x Rakdos Guildmage
2x Rakdos Augermage (could possibly drop him, a Wreck, and a something else for four Hands of Cruelty)
2x Rakdos Pit Dragon (can't REALLY drop him though - he's won me more then a few games)

Spells (18):
4x Seal of Fire
4x Cry of Contrition
4x Rise/Fall
3x Wrecking Ball
2x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Demonfire

My build still differs from EW's slightly but I think the majority of his suggestions were improvements overall - why fight against that? Hippie is one of my favorite creatures ever but in present standard, without Dark Ritual, loses a bit of his luster. Bob is bah-roken, period, plus if he's about to die you can always sac him to Lyzolda for more card advantage. Demonfire is terrific as an alternate win condition. Now I just got to work on the sideboard...and Rain of Gore is hilarious against Loxondon Hierarch and Ghost Councli based decks. I have seen people laugh when I play it...then cry when they read it. Against Orzhov or dedicated GlareScape it might as well read "you lose".

[fooligan]

sure hands die to most removal... but so do most guys in this deck... actualy thinking back to other times ive had to explain why hes good, the loss he takes for having 2 toughness is dwarfed by the fact that he has proWhite..
- shock, pyro and seal hurt it (pretty moot, thats like all of the deck)
- it doges fetters, mortify, glare, helix, condemn, pillory and im not going to get into all the combat benefits...
its way less vulnerable then the rest of your deck... dying to stuff is a pretty poor reason against it, you could rule out the bulk of the deck... you must have had another reason if youve played it and are a decent player.

why arent i seeing full compliments of augermages? especialy alongside inferior discard like cry of contrition in playsets...

i think i need some deep analysis here, b/c with my current information things arent adding up...

[vikramas1109]

sure hands die to most removal... but so do most guys in this deck... actualy thinking back to other times ive had to explain why hes good, the loss he takes for having 2 toughness is dwarfed by the fact that he has proWhite..
- shock, pyro and seal hurt it (pretty moot, thats like all of the deck)
- it doges fetters, mortify, glare, helix, condemn, pillory and im not going to get into all the combat benefits...
its way less vulnerable then the rest of your deck... dying to stuff is a pretty poor reason against it, you could rule out the bulk of the deck... you must have had another reason if youve played it and are a decent player.

why arent i seeing full compliments of augermages? especialy alongside inferior discard like cry of contrition in playsets...

i think i need some deep analysis here, b/c with my current information things arent adding up...What I mean to say is, he is a great card when he sticks and can single-handedly ruin many a deck. At the same time, he almost never sticks when I have play him. There are many cards that you simply can't cut for him, despite what you believe. Incidentally, this is why I didn't post on this thread initially, as I have already gone over this with Blood Riot and EW on the other thread. However if you must you can certainly drop the Augermages and I wrecking ball for 3x Hand of Cruelty without affecting the deck.

Also, re: Cry of Contrition - Frostling. Think about it. And Augermage is fine, I'd just rather be casting Lyzolda as the three-drop almost always plus I need slots for the Pit Dragons as a finisher.

As for a rundown of cards in this deck and why they are there:

Bob - he's Bob. Drawing cards is never bad, plus he's early beats.
Lyzolda - Broken fun time when she hits play. If you have a Guildmage and six mana, you can do your opponent five damage a turn without investing a card! Plus she can always sac herself to ping something and draw, that's why you run four of her even though she is a legend.
Guildmage - can kill a bunch of things to get you hellbent for you dragons or Demonfire, plus creates hasty creatures than can be sacrificed to Lyzolda. Four copies are a must and define this deck. Also aggresively costed for early beats.
Pit Dragon - Huge finisher that flies and pumps, plus gets even bigger hellbent. Nuff said.
Augermage - he is variable, very good 3/2 first striker for three and his ability can add to your card advantage if played properly or can be used to attain hellbent. However, four copies is excessive.
Frostling - early drop can take out a lot of creatures plus is very nasty with Cry of Contrition.

Rise/Fall - unbelieavable card. Early game it's usually a Hymn to Tourach, late game it's bounce opponents best creature and make him discard via Guildmage or Rix Maadi, PLUS pick up your best creature from the yard in the process. Nastiness.
Wrecking Ball - looks expensive sure, but is a terrific multi-purpose util spell. Kills a lot of creatures and deals with problem lands like Vitu-Ghazi if necessary.
Seal of Fire - burn. Duh.
Demonfire - also, LARGE uncounterable, unpreventable burn and one of the few ways around the dreaded CoP:Red.
Cry of Contrition - again, with Frostling it's just plain sick.
Jitte - I hate this card but it's so broken that I have to include it in any creature based deck. BAN IT.

[Fireburns]

Well I played 15 games 2 of them matches. And this is the deck list that I used:

2 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
4 Mountain
4 Sulfurous Springs
4 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
4 Blood Crypt

4 Seal of Fire
4 Rise/Fall
4 Wrecking Ball
1 Demonfire
4 Cry of Contrition

4 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
3 Rakdos Augermage
2 Rakdos Carnarium
4 Rakdos Guildmage
2 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Frostling
4 Hand of Cruelty

Sideboard
4 Blackmail
3 Cranial Extraction
4 Cruel Edict
4 Last Gasp

The sideboard I just through together after the 1st game I played, I just wanted something. Now this differs from the list that I posted earlier, I used HoC instead of Hypnotic Specter, simply because I didn’t get any and I only own the one. But you’ll HoC’s importance throughout the post. The Demonfire I saw only once and then I discarded it when I did draw it. If you untap with the Pit Dragon out you will win the game, if not your doing something horribly wrong. If your not running at the very least 2 Watery Graves for the Rise half of Rise/Fall then your not getting the full potential of a great spell.

Game 1 Tweaker: Gruul
This is a real good friend of mine and he told me he’d give me the specters to test with if I wanted and I declined and I’m glad I did. I went 1st and had to mulligan to 5 cards with no plays. He plays a T3 BTS followed by a Jitte and that was enough to end the game from there.
Games 0-1 / Matches 0-0

Game 2 Tweaker: Gruul
We decided to play again. This time I play a T2 Seal of Fire followed by a T3 Volcanic Hammer on his Kird Ape (I was testing a bunch of cards). He followed that up with BTS and I hit with a Hammer and the Seal. Followed up by Fall. Fall nabbed a Rumbling Slum and a Forest (why can’t it make you discard land I mean come on it’s random already). Then came on of my decks biggest weakness’ Blood moon. I have no way of dealing with it at all. After he untaps he plays Giant Solifuge and BTS I’m holding Wrecking Ball, Cry of Contrition and HoC, with no swamps in site, and this ends the game.
Games 0 – 2 / Matches 0 – 0

Game 3 Tweaker: Gruul
This time we play a full match. By T5 I had played 2 Fall a Seal and a Frostling. Fall hit land on both plays (again why can’t it make you discard it?) Nevertheless His BTS + The Fork of Doom = Game.
Games 0 – 3 / Matches 0 – 0

Side in: 2 Cruel Edict, 2 Hit/Run
Side out: 2 Cry of Contrition, Volcanic Hammer

Game 2
Turn one Seal meets Turn one Frenzied Goblin. Turn two Frostling meets Turn two Kird Ape. Then came the Augermage and he went all the way for me 1st strike is nothing to laugh at especially when backed up by wrecking ball and hit on a empty field.
Games 1 – 4 / Matches 0 – 0

Game 3
I keep a 2-land hand of swamp and rix. Got a T2 Mountain and played frostling followed by CoC. He played Blood Moon again, but this time I had a Swamp and that was all I needed. T3 was another Frostling and a Rak Guildmage. He forgot that his Guildland was affected by the BM and couldn’t play his BTS as a blocker so I made a Goblin Token and went in for 6. Cruel edict and another Frostling were my next plays. And that was enough to win the game and the match.
Games 2 – 5 / Matches 1 – 1

Game 4 Kazandra: G/W weenies
This game lasted all of 5 turns I conceded on the 5th turn after only seeing 2 lands all game.
Games 2 – 6 / Matches 1 – 1

Game 5 my_red_raven: B/W control
This game was a easy win for me but I screwed it in the end, the Orzhov Pontiff was played in response to his ability I was going to sac the bloodwitch and guildmage but on the game you don’t get to know which ability he’s using until it resolves.
Games 2 – 7 / Matches 1 – 1

Game 6 bpoehlman: G/W Tron
My guess was he was trying to play Storm Herd, but could never get enough mana online to do it. I on the other hand was doing great until he played Hour of Reckoning. A few beats by Gruul warplow were enough to do me in. I refused to take this as a loss because I couldn’t draw a single wrecking ball.
Games 2 – 8 / Matches 1 – 1

Game 7 geoffpasely: Izzet
I had to mulligan all the way down to 2 cards. I would have quit right then but I figured I’d play it out. I guess the deck felt sorry about the last game because this time it gave me every card I needed. From Rise/Fall to HoC. I played all 4 copies of Rise/Fall, but it was all Rise that I played then using Rix Maadi, the Dungeon Palace on the returned creature to make sure I didn’t see it again.
Games 3 – 9 / Matches 1 – 1

I have to rest of the Game log on my computer but I will just say that I ended up being
Games 8 – 15 / Matches 2 – 2


All in all I love the deck the only problem I have with it is that it can’t deal with enchantments or artifacts (hit/run not really all that good unless they only have the one Art out) we can play shatter in the sideboard or just play through it. The HoC is a great card while we have him and I can see replacing him with the Specter once he rotates and the Frostling with the Scorched Rusalka.

[Eternal Wizard]

@wyatt290: I could not disagree with you more on your statement that Blackmail>CoC. Blackmail is poor at best when your opponent has more than 3 cards in hand, and yes I know you could wait and we have other discard; but more importantly you can not get instant speed discard with Blackmail and you can with CoC. There is a reason that there is no instant speed discard (spell that is, Shortfang does not count), it's because instant speed discard is broken. Also I'd rather get 2 cards with CoC than 1 with blackmail. What happens with a blackmail when you draw it and your opponent's hand is empty? Nothing that's what. Then they draw some nastyness and you get smacked by it. No, CoC is better.

@Fireburns: If you change your 2 Karoos to Steam Vents we'll have the same land base. I really think you should too, the Rise is to good to not be able to pull it off and Karoos have other drawbacks as well.
If the Dragon is doing good work for you than keep him I guess. He did deliver me some crushing wins when I was testing with him; but I found AM's first strike and 1 less CC needed vs. aggro decks.

@fooligan: My deck does indeed put my opponent into topdeck fast and gets itself there shortly thereafter; but I do have Bobs to help me out and the interaction between a lot of the cards in my deck does get me good bang for my buck. Things like this: Opponents hand is empty (usually is) I Rise; bouncing (insert killer here) and return GM or AM and then cast COC in effecting 'killing' the bounced critter, Haunt something and during there draw phase I Sac/ kill the haunted creature. Hmm.... that does not read easy but I'm sure you get it. My point is, in answer to your question about how far my cards are streching for me, my cards do cover a lot of ground.
HoC eh? Not sure where I'd put him. If he were comming out of the SB vs. aggro he'd replace Bob obviously. I agree with you that Hypnotic is bad. I've been dissing him in this build for some time now. Honestly, I don't have a terrible time with Gruul/Zoo. Now I know a lot of you just said 'WHAT', but I have Frostling for Dryad, Hammer for Kird, Seal for others and Rakdos AM is a HOUSE vs. aggro. Let me get a Jitte in there someware and I'm set. Also Lyzolda gets you sweet of 1 for 3's sometimes. The only problem either of those deck presents is if they get a Jitte going or Moldervine cloak can sometimes be bad.
I like Rise/Fall vs. aggro, and wonder what about it makes you think it's a bad card in that match-up. One thing I think is happening with Fall is that people are casting it to soon. It should not be your turn 2 play unless your opponent has dumped a lot of cards already or you have nothing else to play on turn 2 (maybe not even then). I like to play fall vs. aggro after they have had there 3 turn. This means they probably have 2-3 cards in hand and no land. I'd much rather force a discard of a beater (solofuge) and a Jitte than try to deal with it once it's in play. Now rise is just sweet vs. aggro once their hand is empty (see above).
Yeah, arguments about a creatures toughness are silly with this deck. It's a 'Glass Deck'; meaning everything in it breaks easy but everything is also sharp and pointy.

@vikramas1109: Our decks are very close. I see you still love the Dragon so I won't try and convince you otherwise; but if you find yourself having trouble with aggro I'd suggest swithcing you 2 Dragons to AM's and trying Hammer over Wrecking Ball.

So, I think that brings my thought up to speed. I'll go test and come back when I have something usefull to report/say.

Ciao.

[wyatt290]

@wyatt290: I could not disagree with you more on your statement that Blackmail>CoC. Blackmail is poor at best when your opponent has more than 3 cards in hand, and yes I know you could wait and we have other discard; but more importantly you can not get instant speed discard with Blackmail and you can with CoC. There is a reason that there is no instant speed discard (spell that is, Shortfang does not count), it's because instant speed discard is broken. Also I'd rather get 2 cards with CoC than 1 with blackmail. What happens with a blackmail when you draw it and your opponent's hand is empty? Nothing that's what. Then they draw some nastyness and you get smacked by it. No, CoC is better.





:eek::eek::eek: blackmail is 100% better your oponent shows you pretty much half their hand on turn 3 or 4 maybe later this is definitly not a turn 1 play and they show you some playbles and some dead cards att his point you take the best and then you know that you have the seen cards which is great advantage.

and ooohhh i can haunt with cry of contrition no big deal what if theyre is nothing in play and by the way your opponent choses the card which sucks ***.

cry of contrtion is completley unplayed and is horrible.

[fooligan]

excuse me vikramas, i was wondering, in your card for card you say lyzolda plus GM was 5 damage without inverstment... this doesnt make sense to me...
i am aware that lyzolda + GM is an innevitable 2 points a turn in a lock, or on a clear board 9 points per turn but im not sure why you mark the rare situation where you're dealing 5 (shizo)...

and for cry and frostling... 1, wouldnt rusalka be superior (innevitably youd be able to get more choice and youll be more likely to get the haunt to work)
and 2ndly... is your plan to waste a drop, likely 2nd/3rd, to cast cry... that seems a bit wasteful... especialy given that neither card is always relevant...
its a neat trick but thats all it seems to be... and a tick is just that...
Fireburns:
you have a friend called tweaker? thats awsome! does he do alot of meth?
you play alot of slower stuff... and no bobs or jittes, you would seem to be lacking in the way of reliably powering out the cards....i really think you need to tighten up your list... but its getting there...

im having trouble with your match/ game log recording system... maybe im just retarded... anyway...
Im going to be honest here... and this is for everyone... if your not the greatest player and you find your making afew little errors here and there, or actual mistakes... or just making solid plays instead of the correct ones... i would cut my loses here or devote a ridiculous amount of time to practicing... if theres anything weve learned from this deck in the time weve worked on it is that it will reward you very well for playing correctly but it is one of the hardest decks to play well in standard...
im not accusing anyone of anything but i do think its a good thing to be aware of...

ok now on to more arguementitive tangetial points to bring you back:
im really not sure about the necessarity of clunky finishers to waste space, clunk up the curve and perform the unneeded position of added innevitablity...

[Fireburns]

My choice of the Pit Dragon over 2 more Demonfire is that the Pit Dragon will see Hellbent and that's 6 pts of dmg with out pump and I had achieved Hellbent in all my games.
I like CoC simply because you can use it at instant speed, not to mention the:
T1 Frostling
T2 2x CoC Haunt Frostling (now you have instant speed discard 2 cards)
And for those of you who say this never happens and it's a waste I have done it at the least 4 out of 16 games with mulligan's. Granted they get to choose which card they discard with CoC but does it really matter when you can use it at instant speed? Also with Blackmail or CoC drawing them late in they still do the same thing discard a card. But I didn't join this thread to argue about blackmail and CoC. Because just like most arguments it come down to preference.
As for using a Rusalka wouldn't scorched be better? It deals one damage to any target including players if no one knows what any target means.
As for not using the Jitte, I just won't use it. It puts you in a dangerous place, you tend to start leaning heavily on the power of the jitte instead of the power of your deck and anytime a deck list has 15+ creatures in the 1st thing out of everyone's mouth is where's the jitte? The jitte is bad news period. Once it rotates a great number of decks will just fall off the radar and some deck ideas will just be dead in the water because they no longer will start with 4 Jitte and 20 random creatures. When people say he drew his jitte 1st, so I lost is just sickening. I mean people have the jitte in their sideboards just to combat other jitte's. And everyone thought skullclamp was bad, that was just card advantage and it got banned to me the jitte is worse (skullclamp and Vitu-Ghazi = happy times). Now that I am done ranting about the jitte, I may consider adding Manriki-Gusari.
About not having Bob I may consider him ( I think I said this) and so some more testing with him, but I have never lacked for cards except that one game (a f***ing War Plow?). Does he help to kill you or them, that's the main reason I don't use him, but I will try.
@EW:
Wrecking Ball is great removal it kills everything that can't regenerate and it destroys lands at instant speed (unlike discard). But I do like to burn opponents.
@vikramas1109:
Don't give in, screw the Jitte. Pack Demonfire instead. I do like burning people (not sure if I said that) and I'm sure that you will too. Now that you have added Bob to your deck your sure to find it.

[fooligan]

you wont use it b/c its good? alright...hmmm

i dont rely on jitte... well i sorta do... but not wholely and only in slim circumstances... but its certainly not the reason to play this deck, although this deck is one of the best at abusing it....
WHY? is it b/c you dont have any? fine, whatever! cut your competetive chances for afew months... but dont feed me bull about how its too good to play... it doesnt need to be banned you just need to wake up and either work with or against it... never even mind mentioning that whole PT where it was basicly relevant enough to be SB material...

unless youre very high on removal anyways... and play alot of red, then i would go with plagued... removal is importent... turning dudes into removal and more cards and combat modifiers is very importent... see rakdos Guildmage...

[Fireburns]

I don't play the jitte because it's degenerate and i don't like relying on one card in my deck to win me the game unless the deck is built for it and i can tutor for it when i need it, besides like i said i'll try out Manriki-Gusari and just SB shattering spree, not sure why I didn't think of that before. And i'm not going to argue about the Jitte anymore. If you use it then use it. I have 4 by the way.

But i will talk about the PR vs SR. you said that the PR is better removal how isn't it sac a creature for a -1/-1 and the SR deal one dmg to target creature or player? Isn't that the same thing? The more creaure's you sac the more -'s you give right? And the more creatures you sac the more damage you give? And as for playing a lot of red, the deck has just as many B sources as it does R sources so the R isn't a problem. I just want to understand why the PR is better.

[fooligan]

read scorched rusalka again.... and then if you dont get it read it one more time very carefuly...
im not sure how you could have been so misinformed... you must have delt with the card over the season...

there are also more, and stronger black cards for this deck then red...

[wyatt290]

alright since im semi new to the deck and playing tommorow in FNM is there any tips you guys have for how i should paly the deck and what i should expect see and have problems with?

fooligan you seem like the most experience with the deck got any tips ?

[Stormseeker]

Wyatt:

This decks gets OWNED by the list listed in the thread, Great White Hype. Not sure if you think that the list will be played in your area, but if it is, HoC os a DEFINITE must play over hypie. You need some cads with Pro White to have a chance.

As far as Cry of Contrition vs. Blackmail, I think that COC gets the slight nod, but only if you play Frostling in your MD build. Cry hits for one card , haunts Frostling, and whenever Frostling dies or is saced (which is inevitable), COC hits again. Forcing your oppoenent to loose two cards for one mana is just too good not to play.

IMO, good SB options are Persecute, Cranial, and Mindslicer vs. control; and Nekratal against aggro, unless they are playing WW with the pro-black creatures (Paladin and HoH); or MGA (Ledgewlaker, Kodama), or UWG (SSS).

Just some thoughts. Overall, I do not think that BR is particularly strong in the current format, but Rise/Fall and Hit/Run are definitely good spells. At LEAST four blue sources (probably 6 or 7) should be played to support Rise.

[fooligan]

dont automaticly drop confidant first if you have the decision... carefully think over the situation for a sec hand of cruelty is often a better choice on turn 2.
against decks with pyroclasm/like sweepers you wont want to lose more then 2 cards at any given time (not even that most of the time). keep in mind that bob+GM is 6 points a turn and which threats will be most useful while they fumble for more answers.

sometimes its not so easy to decide wether lyzolda is a 3, 4 or 5 drop, it can be critical and game breaking but sometimes theres no way to know what the best play would be...

manage all youre reasources well, stay focused and count those cards... you have alot of decisions in this deck and do your best to make the right one, but be cool, its easy to jump into the wrong decision b/c you just realized there was annother choice...

if you can bait, this deck is one that really works well with a little sneakyness, like giving youre opponent an easy target or playing out spells from your hand down to a low number, so they feel secure in wrathing so you can safely drop hand+jitte next turn... making it seem like cards in your hand are lands by seeming indcisive about that mountain and sifting through other cards before finaly dropping the land...

always distress first.

try to slow them down till you get augermage out if possible, or even GM, an active GM will rule the board if the opponent missed a step.

keep fetters in mind, dont just drop everything, leave rusalka mana open in the match or keep it to ruslakas and hands untill you can land the augermage or force it onto a jitte.

let them think the paladin envec is beating you.

let the other players think rakdos sucks... and ask around for dred slags and other chaffe...

know youre role in the matchup, this is importent, youll want to know what you have to do to win this game, stay alive and turn around... the deck is consistant, youll have to have a little faith but still exercise prudence...

[Jee]

So I see that this stickied post is BR Aggro-Control, and I feel like this deck is a perfect example of 'aggro-control'. It is basically just BR with a very small splash of blue and uses the Izzet Guildmage to abuse sorceries w/ costs two of less.

// Creatures - 17
4 Plagued Rusalka
4 Dark Confidant
3 Izzet Guildmage
4 Rakdos Augermage
2 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch

// Spells - 16 (all sorceries for the Izzet Guildmage)
4 Distress (Blackmail?)
4 Rise // Fall
4 Cruel Edict
4 Volcanic Hammer

// Artifact - 4
4 Umezawa's Jitte

// Lands - 23
4 Blood Crypt
4 Sulfurous Springs
4 Watery Grave
1 Underground River
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
5 Swamp
4 Mountain

// Sideboard
3 Rain of Gore
3 Giant Solifuge
4 Hand of Cruelty
3 Cranial Extraction
2 Shattering Spree


I really enjoy playing this build, especially when you replicate any of the spells with Izzet Guildmage. Volcanic Hammer becomes that much more powerful. The deck only needs blue for the Rise part of Rise // Fall but a late game Replicate of Rise often is GG or close to it. Its tough to win once control starts taking over, so I don't know if anyone has any recommendations for late game? I have tried Rakdos Guildmage but his abilities are very expensive for the deck and I prefer to not discard cards.

[Fireburns]

Well what in the holy hell. I will admit i didn't read it all the way or pay any attention to it i figured that if Gruul was playing it that it was a great card right:

CardName:Scorched Rusalka
Cost:R
Type:Creature - Spirit
Pow/Tgh:1/1
Rules Text:R, Sacrifice a creature: Scorched Rusalka deals 1 damage to target player.
Set/Rarity:Guildpact Uncommon

Sigh......Why can't you target creatures with this? What's wrong with making a card that can target both creatures and players is that so hard to ask? I just assumed that it would be automatic that it could hit any target, because your sacrificing a creature.....


@Wyatt:
Always play discard over creatures. Discard is the most hated thing is magic next to LD and Counterspells. People want to play their spells and hold on to what they think are bombs, if they know you are playing discard then they will tend to drop more for fear of it being discarded out of their hand. We are very fortunte that our creatures are so low in casting cost that we can afford to have a discard spell countered and then drop a creature threat. For me and this IMHO i believe that Lyzolda is a 5 drop because i can stand to have her fetter'd. When people see that you have that 2 mana open they tend to hold on to fetters and once you untap with her in play good things tend to happen. And don't be afraid to sac any thing on your board because you have Rise/Fall to back you up. One Rak GM is enough never 2 at the same time, and don't forget that you can make a goblin token at your opponents EOT and use it on your turn.

[Rakavolver]

It's OK to have made that error re Scorched Rusalka. I'm made similar errors with other cards but, dayam man, wouldn't it be cool IF Scorched did the whole critter thing too!? ;-)

I do not like Frostling*, and will not play it in this archetype. It's not that the card is bad, because it isn't, it's just that there are other B & R one-drops I like better, like Plagued Rusulkas that come out vs Control, or Frenzied Goblin, which is good vs everything and never comes out. OK, not so hot vs Combo, but who's playing Heartbeat?

*EW did make his case for Frostling at the other thread, and if you would be so kind Eternal Wizard, please repeat it here. I... just don't like it compared to Frenzieds and Plagues, is all I'm saying.

[Fireburns]

I still don't know why it couldn't have been printed that way it's not like it would have been broken or anything....

@Jee:
I'm going to post something from the other thread and i think that it is a must for B/R
Land - ESSENTIAL: 4x Blood Crypt, 4x Sulfurous Springs, 1x Rix Maadi, some combination of the R/U and U/B shocklands for Rise. OPTIONAL - Another Rix Maadi, Karoos.
Creatures - ESSENTIAL: 4x Lyzolda, 4x Guildmage, 4x Frostling, probably at least 2 or 3x Augermage as well. OPTIONAL - Any combination of Hand of Cruelty, Bob, Hippie, Pit Dragon, more Augermages, and possibly Avatar of Discord.
Spells - ESSENTIAL: 4x Rise/Fall, 4x Cry of Contrition, at least 2x maindeck Wrecking Ball. OPTIONAL - any combination of additional Wrecking Balls, Char, Demonfire (I want to fit one in my deck somewhere), Seal of Fire, Hit/Run, Jitte, and even Phyrexian Arena in some builds that ignore Hellbent entirely.
So all in all, this represents the Rakdos "toolkit" if you will.

The Izzet GM is a cool idea but the Rak GM is waaaaaaayyy better. When i 1st saw him i thought his token making ability cost too much, but you'll see that you can swing it and sac the token to Lyzolda, the Blood Witch. So knowing that your going to need 4 Rak GM. Your also going to need 4 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch, she is just too good not to have 4 of in your deck. I love cruel edict because the deck can handle small creatures and the edict handles the rest, but it may be more of a SB card than a main deck option. I like your sideboard a lot. By using the "tool kit" and looking at the other decks in this thread you'll see that we all run the "tool kit" in some form, so start there and your deck will be that much better.

Stupid Rusalka

[vikramas1109]

you wont use it b/c its good? alright...hmmm

i dont rely on jitte... well i sorta do... but not wholely and only in slim circumstances... but its certainly not the reason to play this deck, although this deck is one of the best at abusing it....
WHY? is it b/c you dont have any? fine, whatever! cut your competetive chances for afew months... but dont feed me bull about how its too good to play... it doesnt need to be banned you just need to wake up and either work with or against it... never even mind mentioning that whole PT where it was basicly relevant enough to be SB material...

unless youre very high on removal anyways... and play alot of red, then i would go with plagued... removal is importent... turning dudes into removal and more cards and combat modifiers is very importent... see rakdos Guildmage...Okay, first, as per Lyzolda/Guildmage, I meant 4 damage a turn, not five. You can take out any 4-toughness creature by creating a token for four mana and then sacking it to Lyzolda with damage on the stack. This cost you six mana but no additional cards. If the board is clear then that's four to the head + 5 from Lyzolda/Guildmage also attacking - nine damage a turn!
Also, Scorchy sucks compared to Frostling. It requires additional mana and sacrifice. Plus it can't hit creatures. The only advantage is that it can be activated multiple times - except that Guildmage's black ability is better if you want to kill creatures. Plagued has the same issues. The lack of mana cost on Frostling it makes it better for this deck. Also, try haunting a token with CoC ;-)
Also you say re:Jitte, and I quote: "it doesnt need to be banned you just need to wake up and either work with or against it." To me that is the very definition of a card that unbalances a format and requires banning. If you don't play Jitte people think you're crazy because it's so broken and other aggro has the advantage against you. If you do play with it, the games often degenerate into who can get theirs on the board first. That is a bah-roken card my friends and should definitely be banned in Standard in my opinion.

[vikramas1109]

Okay, as per a primer...now I can only speak for results with my build specifically, and how I play with it, but I have been fairly successful and so far have played over 100 games with about 75% winning against a variety of common builds:

-Someone else mentioned this but, always play your discard first. While you can play straight aggro against control, 99% of the time it is better to wreck their hand first via Frostling/CoC, Fall, Rix Maadi/Augermage and then go to work on their life total. Against a more dedicated aggro deck, you have to become the control player so you can deal with their threats and hand first.
-Also, against control with white, be wary of overextending. If your opponent's board is clear and you have 2-3 threats or a guildmage in play, just keep attacking and hold your cards. Ignore hellbent for the time being. If you are drawing more discard, keep the pressure on. They will be forced to tap out and wrath and then usually you can drop your whole hand and make it almost impossible for them to topdeck another and recover.
-Rise is a terrific late game restocker and can usually get you the game against either variant but it is NOT a combat trick. It's a sorcery. However, you can do all sorts of neat tricks with it in play - for example, bouncing their best creature and then forcing them to discard it via Rix Maadi/Augermage or after sideboarding in Nekrataals, bouncing your own Nekrataal to clear a path.
-Your optimal first few plays will always be Sulfurous/Blood Crypt and Frostling, followed by double CoC and then Fall to decimate their hand. You'd be surprised how often this happens. That's six-(or seven if Frostling takes out a creature as well) cards of theirs versus your four card investment. Remember also that if CoC is haunting Frostling you can force them to discard as an instant after they draw and they will only be able to respond if they drew an instant. ALso, you can always sac Frostling to itself if necessary.
-Save five mana for Lyzolda. She is to good to get fettered and if she's dying she can ping something and replace herself with a card.
-Bob is either your best friend or your own worst enemy. If he is killing you do not be afraid to sac him to Lyzolda as well.
-If your opponent hasn't cast anything and you draw Wrecking Ball, go after his mana base - especially of you can hit a karoo, a pain in the *** land like Vitu Ghazi, or take away a color. This can often win you the game by itself and it's why I play at least two of them maindeck.
-Pit dragon just kills people. Period. He is a terrific finisher and I strongly reccomend running him if you aren't already.
-I hate the Jitte. Also SSS sucks. Not much to say here if you aren't playing Hit/Run maindeck or sideboard. Shattering Spree is good for one, and Cruel Edict for the other. Rain of Gore is also hilarious against Orzhov and GlareScape.

Versus specific strategies, remember because of your numerous options that you always have the advantage over control. However, Sea Stompy, Boros deck wins, and gruul are generally not great match-ups and you need to manage your resources and life total accordingly. Good like and enjoy the demonic pleasure of Rakdos!

[Eternal Wizard]

@Wyatt290: If you could give an analysis of your meta we could help you out more. However, here's a few basics:
SB: Cranial, Okiba-Shinobi (over mindslicer in my book), Cruel Edict, any jitte's not in the main.
As fooligan said, this is a thinking mans deck so take your time and make good decisions or you will not do well. Pay particular atention to when you use your discard. I think some people are using it to soon in a game. I like to start causing some discard after my opponents have had thier third turn land drop, that is when it's just so sweet to force them to discard 3+ cards in one turn. Fetters is your worst enemy (even wrath is not as bad imo) so keep it in mind. Speaking of WoG, don't overextend, this is not a typical aggro deck here, there is no need to drop everything and swing for broke. A GM by himself can force a WoG or Pyroclasm as can Lyzolda + anything or an AM + a friend so pace your cards and get the most out of the mini combos in the deck. Combos like using Rise to get a threat off the table then CoC to force its discard than the same CoC to force the discard of their next draw.
Now with all that being said you have to know when to play more agressivly and when to play a more controlish style. That is what makes this deck tough to play, and only a skilled player with enough play-testing behind him is going to make the right choices, so test a lot and have a blast (it is a fun deck to play). Good luck at your FNM.
@Jee: Cute idea, I may play around with it some.

Sure Rakavolver: I prefer Frosty over Scorched for 2 reasons mainly: he sacs for free (and this does matter sometimes) and he can target creatures. Also as far as the Rusalkas go how often do we have enough creatures in play to get good use of them, and wouldn't we rather be sacing them to Lyzolda if we do?

@vikramas1109: 'sigh' yes Jitte is broken, few will argue that it is not. That is not the point though. The only relivant question is; is the deck better with it or without it? Really no debate over that now is there?

Ciao.

[vikramas1109]

I wasn't arguing against Jitte, EW, remember I added two in my maindeck. I was merely disagreeing with fooligan's contention that it isn't broken and doesn't cause an imbalance.

[Eternal Wizard]

Ah, my bad. Yep, Jitte = Broken.

Just a little testing report ( I only got in 4 matches last night)
Vs. strange G/B aggro control 2-0: no serious problem here but dredge can be a problem (Moldervine cloak most noticably).
Vs. mono red 0-2: the combination of my land pain and blah draws + truck loads of burn just scorched me.
Vs. Heartbeat 2-1: Game 1 I win with jitted crit and some burn, game 2 he goes off on turn 4, game 3 I force 6 discard by turn 4 and follow up with cranial and he scoops.
Vs. Masterpiece 2-0(1?): I know I won the match but can't remember if i lost a game or not. Game 1 I beat with a Jitted crit for 2 turns, he Wraths and I burn for the rest. Last game we both hit eachother with tons O discard (he persecutes me on turns 3 and 4 and I force 2 discard with Fall and 2 more with Okiba-Gang Shinobi. I have him low then he draws into 3 Fetters to stabilize. We top deck land for a while, he play Desolation Angel and beats on me for a while. I win with Rise on a GM an lot's of mana.

Like I said, not a lot but an interesting cross section.

Ciao

[fooligan]

on jitte:
so sweepers or say wrath of god are something that needs to be banned? i didnt say the format needs to work with or against it, i said you, meaning rakdos or aggro in general...
to control its significantly less impressive
jitte when played properly adds up to a very clunky nearly unblockable 4/4 for 4 that can deal its damage in other ways...
thats quite strong and very unusual but that doesnt add up to broken...
most people have come to terms with jitte by now...
its still one of the strongest removal spells in the format right now while also giving you extra modifiers here and there as a bonus... thats its real role... but we really arent here to complain about the cards around... especialy ones we so readily and effectivly put to use...

i belive im too tired right now to figure out something constructive and on topic...
good night... lets just keep jitte to a cost vs benefit thing and general issues in further discussion... to keep the ball rolling..

oh one thing for the new guys: youll find that with frenzied goblin your bob will be compensating more for his life loss... one major reason to run gobo is that you can swig with bob without fear of molestation...

[Fireburns]

This is kind of a general question for everyone. How low on life do you go with Dark Confidant before you retire him?


This is a insanely crazy thought....but what about braid of fire and the Rak GM. In a since you can use it every turn to make a gobbo token. Then it just get's insane, of course when the mage dies you die. I did warn you that it was insane.

[wyatt290]

im back fomr FNM i came 2nd yay the deck is surprisingly good against control and even aggro which i thought was this decks bad match-up.

round one Donnie with U/W/g aggro.control

game one ended fast i didnt get much time to take notes what happened was turn 1 bird turn 2 jitte with another bird turn 3 cloak up bird swing for 3 remand your rise//fall untap equip jitte swing win.

game 2: Some guy named patrick

i board in creature removal becuase of heavy creatures i assumed were coming out becuase of the moldervine cloak.

game went on for ever he had me at a stagering 3 with a few creatures out and he was at 5 he couldnt swing in case of me having shock then he would die.
He drew solifuge but was still scared fo shock i drew land as i had done many turns before he untaps draws plays glare dang im dead i thought i didnt think i had any outs so i windmill the top card of my deck hopinh it was an answer i had not thought of BAM!!! Lyzolda so i look at the board look at my opponent and he says well sac your augermage i do bring him to 3 i have to draw a red creature off this lyzolda so i draw its a rav rat i play it sac it and drawanother lyzolda sac it to deal to to him and then play this oe and sac it.(it was crazy i had enough lands)

Game 3 i win due to mass of crearures and very very heavy discarding.

round 2 B/R aggro

Game one i start out with a second turn ravenous rats followed buy a turn 2 cry of contriction into another rav rats he untaps and plays down 2x Seal of fire and discards the last few cards to my rise//fall and scoops a few turns later after i drop augermage

game 2

i dont even sideboard i dont care i think i cant lose this mach up i have shock it kills any creature in his deck.

i start out with the usually beats with no discard swings in with nekratall and my frostling after a few turns of hit//run and shocking his men.
And procide to ride home with the two men untill he twinstrikes then leaving me with no board he untaps and draw plays down rakdos the defiler i laughed it was very unexpected i untap and tap a hit fomr the rakdos after passing the run sac half my lands he plays down persecute htting every almost every card in my hand im left with frostling i untap draw and rip a hit//run off the top play it down and ride frostling to victory.

round 3 (finals) Tyler with Snakes on a plane

Welli play tyler every week the last few weeks and lose every time and this one was no difference.

Game one i got off some earley discard but it didnt matter he plays snakes and then brings back sosukes summons and then plays down patiga viper i lose next turn to a cot of arms.

Game 2 i played a lot of discard only taking a few points form snakes while blocking with first strikers.
But eventully her applys pressure with patiga viper follwed by a Seshiro giving his snakes +2/+2 and giving him the game.

Well im gettign happier with the deck every time i play it now a days im deifnitly gonna keep playing it.

[luckey]

do you know if this deck can win aggainst beachhouse?

[Rakavolver]

do you know if this deck can win aggainst beachhouse?

If by "beachhouse" you mean the deck played at Honolulu, Pfft, that was a terrible deck. If you mean GWB Control, which of the many lists are you talking about? In general I bring in the anti-Control package, but the WI*method may have to be invioked based on what I see.

*WI = Wing It

[Trogdor!]

CardName:Scorched Rusalka
Cost:R
Type:Creature - Spirit
Pow/Tgh:1/1
Rules Text:R, Sacrifice a creature: Scorched Rusalka deals 1 damage to target player.
Set/Rarity:Guildpact Uncommon

Sigh......Why can't you target creatures with this? What's wrong with making a card that can target both creatures and players is that so hard to ask? I just assumed that it would be automatic that it could hit any target, because your sacrificing a creature.....



dont fear, mogg fanatic is coming here

[Eternal Wizard]

OK, another batch of playtesting results are in and I've been forced into a few changes. First the results

2-1 angel weirding (MVP graverobbers out of the SB)
2-1 Snakes (MVP Jitte)
1-2 Mirror (well at least RB aggro won)
2-0 BW control (MVP discard)
1-2 Snakes (No Jitte love for me, but still very close)
2-1 RU Voreish thing lots of burn in place of LD i think (MVP discard)
2-1 Masterpiece (persecut hurts but without getting an areana down I out carded him)
2-1 Angel Weirding (cranial or Graverobbers just kills em)
2-1 Angel Weirding again on this on had W genjus which made for very long games. (MVP Graverobbers and discard)
0-2 Zoo I got spanked
1-2 Zoo again
2-1 Heartbeat (very easy to destroy their hand then they just gotta topdeck the pieces)
2-0 Heartbeat
1-2 Heartbeat (total Mise, but heartbeat can do that so what ya gonna do?)

2 of my 5 losses were to mirror 2 to Zoo and 1 to Heartbeat.
All in all it is doing ok but I've got to shore up my game vs Zoo/Gruul so I'm gonna drop some burn for HoC and Plagued Rusalka and test it that way for a while.

Ciao.

[werunincircles]

im new to this deck any advise would be appreciated

Lands 20

4x Blood Crypt
4x Sulfurous Springs
1x Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
4x Mountains
4x Swamps
1x Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1x Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep

Creatures 25

4x Dark Confidant
4x Rakdos Guildmage
4x Plagued Rusalka
4x Scourched Rusalka
3x Rakdos Augermage
3x Hand of Cruelty
2x Lyzolda, the Blood Witch

Spells 15

3x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Char
4x Seal of Fire
3x Cry of Contrition
2x Demonfire

Sideboard

4x Blood Moon
3x Distress
3x Grave Pact
3x Flames of the Bloodhand
2x Eradicate

[mmachine]

I think the ability to use cry of contrition with frostling is key. We should not cut our best "cry enabler" for an evasion guy (frenzied goblin).
Even without cry, removal is probably more usefull to an aggro-control deck like this one than evasion.

Once you admit that you want to take the best out of cry, running 4 of is probably the way to go.

[gage]

after seeing this deck i changed my br deck and i was seeing a long more winning, GREAT DECK :)

[mmachine]

I've assembled the core of the deck this week end, it is a blast to play. Congrats to everyone on this list, it is really good design.

I agree that HoC would be much needed against Zoo/Gruul, stabilizing on the draw is not an easy job. But I'd be reluctant to drop burn to make room, I think Bob should sit on the bench for this matchup, especially on the draw.
Can we afford the luxury of a non blocker, that will hurt us even more ? I'm afraid no.

If HoC is not enough, maybe Nekrataal could help too, will have to test.

Congrats again for this great deck :)

[werunincircles]

I think the ability to use cry of contrition with frostling is key. We should not cut our best "cry enabler" for an evasion guy (frenzied goblin).
Even without cry, removal is probably more usefull to an aggro-control deck like this one than evasion.

Once you admit that you want to take the best out of cry, running 4 of is probably the way to go.
i agree with you completely the only thing i dont like about the frostling is its only to creatures. If i would replace it i would turn it into scourched rusalka, it can work with other creatures very well. the idea of the friends is it helps alot in the early and late game but letting jitte go through. i also feel comfortale with all the burn and all the creatures that can either ping or give -x/-x that i dont need 4 frostling. plus idk if you have heard but they are printing mogg fanatic again! so once that goes into Type II i will put it in there. lastly i see that if a deck is to controlling i can sideboard in the 4 distress. thank you for the comment i appreciate it.

[fooligan]

mog and cry will only be around together for a possible max of 4 months...

ill try out these cry lists but they seem pretty wasteful and cumbersome... but ill give them the benefit of the doubt for now...

[PredatorGR]

why oh why doesnt anybody play char?
and why no flames in the board?
wheres your burn people?

[vikramas1109]

why oh why doesnt anybody play char?
and why no flames in the board?
wheres your burn people?It's not a straight burn deck. If you're going to go that route you don't need black at all. It's an aggro-control hybrid that focuses on disrupting an opponent with the many flexible spells and creatures along with massive amounts of discard.
For those who haven't been following along the deck, I'll be posting my Friday/Saturday report and some basic primers a little later.

[vikramas1109]

mog and cry will only be around together for a possible max of 4 months...

ill try out these cry lists but they seem pretty wasteful and cumbersome... but ill give them the benefit of the doubt for now...With Frostling in play it's the exact opposite, actually. Each Cry now nets you 2-for-1 and can also be used at instant speed. Consider this common scenario:

Turn 1 - Mountain/Springs/Crypt, Frostling, Done Go.
Their turn 1 - Forest/Dual and Bird/Elf, Done Go.
Turn 2 - Cry of Contrition haunting Frostling, attack with Frostling, Kill Bird/Elf and force another discard.

You've traded two cards for their three and are already ahead in tempo. If you draw double CoC the ratio becomes even better, 5 for 3! How is that wasteful? Much better and cheaper then the other options out there plus you have Fall backup.

[PredatorGR]

has anybody tired okiba-gang shinobi?
i think it fits the discard them really well.

[Eternal Wizard]

@mmachine: I certainly agree that Bob takes a bench warmimg job Vs. Zoo or Gruul. I have not tested Nekrataal yet but may do so soon.

I am finding pyroclsm to be EXTREAMLY anoying and it is starting to show up more and more. I really want some creature that can stand up to it. Any ideas out there.

@fooligan: Do try CoC, I think you will like it.

@Predator: Yeah, what vikramas1109 said about the burn; I have been running 8 burn spells but I keep finding them to be the most usless cards in my deck so I am gonna cut back some.
On the Okiba-gang Shinobi question; yes I have been running 4 of them in my SB and they have done very well. Picking up Bob once he has done enough is my fovorite ninja move.

Other good SB cards have been:
Cranial Extraction (duh)
Graverobber (been golden Vs. Angel decks and not bad Vs. Snakes which is on the rise in my metaa)

That is all I have for now, Ciao.

[Stormseeker]

Pyroclasm (and/or Shivan Phoenix) roll this deck. I personally play URW Angel and have never lost to this deck, despite all of the discard and disruption.

The deck list looks cool, and I have been wanting to play this deck, but w/o an answer to Pyro/Shivan I just don't see how the deck is viable.

In addition to URW Angel, I also play WW Aggro. My build uses 12 maindeck creatures (HOH, Paladin, and White Shield Crusdaer), who in addition to having really good other abilities, also happen to have pro-black. This is obviously GG against this deck, and another reason why I can't bring myself to play it.

Anyways, for those Rakdos diehards out there, I say go for it! Hopefully your deck will become more powerful post-rotation.

[fooligan]

vik: the sitiuation you described is one of few where cry + frostling is an actual 3 for 2...
most of the time id see it as a 2 for 2 or 2 for 3...
remember that both cry and frostling are cards...

as for ww match... i admit my wwr does have a decent 15-18% of games on this deck, but its not usualy the creatures that are the problem... i have seals for them... and any rakdos deck that cant stand up to a vec on the board probly isnt worth youre time...

which list have you been testing against... and if youll post your list... though i havent seen any ww in my area and will likely not for a while (sucks after rotation) its a bit of a point of pride, and a challenge... post board im pretty sure i mop up...

and pyro isnt a problem, ive been consistantly performing against U/r control and maggy... my only issue in tron decks is 8x sweepers in urg and painful countermagic into stableization....

anyway im not worried about a metagamed angel deck... most people run control here or control glare... and if i did have issues we have enough tech available to us to deal with it...

stormseeker youve done a very good job in pointing out issues weve been talking about and working on since this decks creation... and now many have become pretty insubstatial... if you want to be constructive thats fine, even great, but dont come just to prod at us... thats pretty lame...

[wyatt290]

Well if your smart and player the deck it should be played and avoid wrath of god and pyroclasm and board sweepers like that you should have no problem.
The deck is not a very good aggro deck mark my words i took the halifaxs players advice and played the deck like a control deck and it does fine with me. I assume you guys are playignt he deck kinda like heezy street tryign to squeeze inevery last point of damage. I think thats why this deck is gettign good rusults anywhere its probably becuase people are playing aggro versions of this deck.

the deck does best if you can get some sort of turn 2 discard off followed by a turn 3 augermage if you can keep him in play you win the cnotrol match-ups which are this decks easier ones.

Aggro is what this deck has trouble with sometimes grull is a good match-up if you can get some ealey frostlings and first strikers out. but the discard is nothing to them they just dont care.

The match-up i found the hardist is U/W skies no matter how much you get rid of out of their hand it jsut keeps coming back. And you have nothing to fight against the fliers except frostling. He'll help getting pride smaled and hopefully get him in seal of fire range.

those were just a few rundowns i thought id let you in on...

[Rakavolver]

Wyatt, who the heck plays UW Skies? In all honesty, has that thing won anything significant?

Beating Aggro is roughly 50/50, with a very wide standard deviation. Since the shift is toward Control (with the usual "people are playing everything" disclaimer), I rather like our chances, which are certainly better than Owl's with its reliance on Vision Skeins and Kindle the Carnage to beat Aggro.

[wyatt290]

Wyatt, who the heck plays UW Skies? In all honesty, has that thing won anything significant?


i know people that play skies wheather or not it is big in the meta its my most hated deck ive found.
There is juy soo many fliers i cant deal with them all the number of fligin men is insane you can deal with some but they just keep turning sideways.

The biggest thing ive seen skies accomplish is 1st in the flordia regionals.

[Fireburns]

People still play owl? I would love to play owl with this deck. What does everyone's sideboard look like. I was thinking of adding more burn to mine. also what do you guys think of:

CardName:Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper
Cost:2BRG
Type:Legendary Creature - Orc Shaman
Pow/Tgh:4/3
Rules Text:Whenever another nontoken creature you control is put into a graveyard from play, put a 3/1 black and red Graveborn creature token with haste into play.
Set/Rarity:Coldsnap Rare

Barring the G in his cost this is a nice complment to Lyzolda. Also if anything dies to anything you will get a 3/1 token. All wrath effects become deal 2 damage, draw a card, if you have a Lyzolda in hand. The really bad part is his CC with that G. Our creature base in R/B period only 3 cards in the whole deck have colorless CC in their cost.

[Rakavolver]

The really bad thing is he costs FIVE, in a deck with Bob. I already have one of those: Rise/Fall. I don't want to play more.

Other than that though, I do like the card. Playing a critter for zero mana expenditure is good. The Haste thing is good v Control. The 3 power thing is good to chump/kill v Aggro, taking out a Kird Ape or whatnot. I can't believe the 3/1 hasty doesn't go away at end of turn. I'm not complaining. We have explored RBu a lot, RBw a bit, but what of RBg? Why not, in Coldsnap? Coldsnot favors aggression, and those are the 3 aggro colors. Fitting in Viper will be tough, but I'm not caring about Coldsnap Standard at the moment, my focus is on Nationals.

Finishing first at Florida Regionals is GREAT! It's a large tourney. But that was May 20th. We have evolved so far beyond then:

Good News: Hazared the Omega has gone 35-3-3 with his UWg the last 2 weeks, 3 tournies, with the last match beating Tron (repeal signet, counter demonfire) to QUALIFY for Philippines Nationals. That's good, because that's the deck you want to face, and UWg is also the best deck in Standard, except aginst Rakdos AggroControl, its virtual anti-deck.

@Wyatt: Have you tried Hideous Laughter? Rakdos Pit Dragon gets around Pyroclasm, which is one reason of many reasons I run it.

[Fireburns]

The really bad thing is he costs FIVE, in a deck with Bob. I already have one of those: Rise/Fall. I don't want to play more.

Yeah i'm thinking of letting Bob go for that very fact and bringing back the HoC, or getting rid of wrecking ball in favor of some burn having 2 4cc spells in the deck is painful.



Other than that though, I do like the card. Playing a critter for zero mana expenditure is good. The Haste thing is good v Control. The 3 power thing is good to chump/kill v Aggro, taking out a Kird Ape or whatnot. I can't believe the 3/1 hasty doesn't go away at end of turn. I'm not complaining. We have explored RBu a lot, RBw a bit, but what of RBg? Why not, in Coldsnap? Coldsnot favors aggression, and those are the 3 aggro colors. Fitting in Viper will be tough, but I'm not caring about Coldsnap Standard at the moment, my focus is on Nationals.

Maybe we can find a place for him later on.



@Wyatt: Have you tried Hideous Laughter?

Your kidding right? What's your Sideboard look like Wyatt? Can you try Deathmark and last gasp? Here is mine and i'd like some help with it.

3 Cranial Extraction
3 Deathmark (can work on so many crits)
3 Hit/Run (I want this to become cruel edict)
3 Char (Burn baby Burn)
3 Rain of Gore (lox, fetters)

[mmachine]

The weird thing about this deck is that its discard plan is most effective against aggro deck. Well not necessariliy aggro but it needs targets for frostling/Cry to be at its best.
The other thing is that aggro is probably more hurt by unselective discard (like cry) than control, because they have little way to refill their hand.

Control, on the other hand, can always cast a tiding an nullify all our smart discard tricks. We are much better casting rise, or distress, or activating augermage. Specter is also an option.

So I'm thinking dropping frostling/cry against control. Not sure how you guys are sideboarding ...

[Rakavolver]

I run neither Cry nor Frostling. Once again here is my deck. I wasn't kidding about Hideous Laughter - it's certainly not good enough to make my "Holy 75" cards but I have it in my third pile. It was just a thought because Wyatt was complaining about decks with Pyro killing him.

4 Frenzied Goblin
2 Giant Solifuge
4 Hand of Cruelty
3 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
3 Plagued Rusalka
4 Rakdos Augermage
4 Rakdos Guildmage

3 Char
3 Phyrexian Arena
4 Rise/Fall
4 Seal of Fire

4 Blood Crypt
5 Mountain
1 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
4 Sulfurous Springs
5 Swamp
1 Tomb of Urami

3 Dark Confidant
1 Demonfire
2 Giant Solifuge
3 Pithing Needle
2 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Umezawa's Jitte

I will not argue with anyone whether Discard is better than Burn. They are both good and viable. Like every other Guild, expect this one to go off in multiple directions.

[Fireburns]

How often do you see your Rix Maadi? And also that's pretty ballsy using the Tomb of Urami, i'm guessing it's for Wildfire. That's a nice list by the way. I may shake things up a bit in my list here it is by the way:

4 Wrecking Ball
4 Cry of Contrition
4 Rise // Fall
4 Seal of Fire
2 Demonfire

2 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
2 Watery Grave
4 Blood Crypt
4 Sulfurous Springs
5 Swamp
5 Mountain

4 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
4 Rakdos Guildmage
3 Rakdos Augermage
2 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Frostling
3 Dark Confidant

I may take out the Wrecking Balls and add either Volcanic Hammer or Char. Being able to just out right kill a creature is great and i don't like not being able to do it when i'm playing B. Is 4 toughness the highest that we face in STD? There is Rumbling Slum and Carven Caryatid and the Kami Dragons. Anyone besides me face larger beasties?

[PredatorGR]

i started to playtest this deck like this:

4 bob
4 lyzolda
4 rakdos augermage
4 rakdos guildmage
4 frostling
2 rakdos pit dragon

4 coc
4 seal of fire
4 rise/fall
3 jitte
1 demonfire

22 land

i cut the burn most of you guys used (hammers) although i at first thought that this deck needed more burn.
i realized how good the discard was and am now even planning to include 3 ravenous rats for even more discard instead of the 2 dragons and the 3rd jitte.

i tried the same mana base most of you guys have but think that the second rix maadi is too much. its a colorless land after all and 1 should be more than enough.also shizo and shinka work nice with lyzolda and ill give em a shot.

i had tough times casting the dragon at 4cc (!) as many of the times i was stuck to 3 lands for a couple of turns so i plan to cut him.

other options for the main board except the rats are HoC since my meta is full of zoo and orzhov i think ill like him. if not main board ill definetely put a couple in the board.

what do you guys vote? HoC or rats in the main board???

about the board i like a bunch of cards like persecute (but as a 4cc i may not play it) , distress, HoC, Rain of Gore, Cruel Edict, Last Gasp, Mindslicer ,wrecking ball and okiba-gang shinobi.

right now im testing 3 slicers,2 rain of gore,3 shinobis,4 gasp,3 distress and cruel edict is a prime candidate for a slot in the board,maybe instead the slicers (4cc again, id like to keep the curve low).


nice deck in overall so far i tested only against zoo, paladins from the board where tough to get by but in overall i think its a favourable matchup, most of their guys go down to first strike,frostling,gm,seal or lyzolda although the discard doesnt hurt them as much.

next im trying against roxodon hierarchy,tron and simic aggro.

will post results, cheers!

[wyatt290]

well my sideboar dlooks like this....

4 last gasp(aggro)
4 distress(control)
4 pheyreian arena(control)
3 ribbons of night(aggo)

deathmark i have been considering thanks fireburns..

[PredatorGR]

so i went -2 dragons , - 1 demonfire + 3 rats and i liked it.
the synergy of coc and frostling is good but i miss hit/run.
also the confidant deals too much damage after a while.

so i think why not replace the bobs with arenas, coc with hit/run and frostling with frenzied goblin or something else (specter maybe?perhaps blackmail?)

what do you guys think?

[Fireburns]

I'm thinking the same thing about replacing Bob with Arena's less pain same effect.

[Eternal Wizard]

While I think Arena's are fine they do not have the same effect as Bob. They are slower to play, can't attack or block, and most importantly can't swing a Jitte. I think if you're going to switch to Arenas and Hit/Run you are
moving away from aggro and twards control. Nothing wrong with that, in fact I'd like to see some results from a more controling build posted so good luck with it.

Ciao.

[wyatt290]

well i think for FNM this week im gonna take out -4 seal of fire and try out 4+ mishras allow FNM coldsnap leagel this week becuse really who wants to wait for mid to late august hopefully it works out well ...

im gonna do some testing today, so in word of eternal wizard

Ciao

[Rakavolver]

Let me get this straight. Your store is ALLOWING Coldsnap legal cards on Friday??

Cool. Hope they're not making it DCI rated though, or they'll get in trouble.

@EW: I put Bobs in my board (and Arenas main) to make it tougher first game for Aggro to beat me. I'd like to say my local meta is more aggro or more control or more combo or what not, but we have a pretty eclectic group of players, and we tend to see all three. So I start out with Arenas not Bob and no, I haven't seen a report from anyone else who does that. It may be a case of they haven't tried. Or not. Shrug. Who knows? But I'm a bit rogue, and I wouldn't be able to sleep with myself if I wasn't.

[Fireburns]

I tried switching Bob's with Arena's and so far i like it. The opponent doesn't get to see the card you draw and you only lose one life. Current deck list as of today:

4 Wrecking Ball
4 Cry of Contrition
4 Rise // Fall
4 Phyrexian Arena
4 Seal of Fire
1 Demonfire

2 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
2 Watery Grave
4 Blood Crypt
4 Sulfurous Springs
5 Swamp
5 Mountain

4 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
4 Rakdos Guildmage
4 Frostling
3 Rakdos Augermage
2 Giant Solifuge

Sideboard
4 Cruel Edict (may turn into hit // run)
3 Cranial Extraction
2 Shattering Spree
2 Flashfire (maybe Boil)
3 Dark Confidant
1 Demonfire

I still haven't replaced the Wrecking Ball(s) yet, and i'm sold on my creature lite version (only -3, but hey). I may drop one arena and one wrecking ball for the other 2 Giant Solifuge, not sure yet.

[PredatorGR]

can someone who has playtested hippies in this deck tell me the impressions of this card?
i think of replacing the frostlings with hippies and coc with blackmail/distress.

what do you think of this list? i wrote down what i think before kami rotates and what im going to replace it with after the /

4 Rise // Fall
4 Phyrexian Arena
4 Seal of Fire
4 Distress/Blackmail
3 Jitte/Solifuge

(19 Spells)

4 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
4 Rakdos Guildmage
4 Hippie
4 Rakdos Augermage
3 Okiba-Gang Shinobi/Rats

(19 Creatures)

4 Blood Crypt
4 Sulfurous Springs
2 Watery Grave
2 Steam Vents
2 Rix Maadi
1 Shinka
1 Shizo
3 Swamp
3 Mountain

(22 Lands)

SB:

4 Hit // Run
3 Mindslicer
3 Persecute
2 Rain of Gore
3 Last Gasp

i upped the mana curve a little bit so maybe im going to play 23 lands.

[Fireburns]

can someone who has playtested hippies in this deck tell me the impressions of this card?
i think of replacing the frostlings with hippies and coc with hit/run or blackmail/distress.

For one your replacing a one drop with a 3 drop and there are already 2-3 important 3 drops in the deck. Not to mention your going to do it again by replacing CoC with hit/run.

Now having said that the only decklist that i know of that uses hyppies had them in the place of Dark Confidant/HoC. Right now i don't know of any lists that uses them.

Also the majority of the people in this thread use Blackmail instead of CoC and none of them use Frostling, because without CoC what do you need Frostling for?

[PredatorGR]

yeah i i know thats why i think of running 23 lands.
distress is a 2 drop and blackmail is a one drop.
which one should go mb? isnt distress better?
and ninja or rats?
do you think this list could work? im still playtesting it...

[Eternal Wizard]

I think that many of us started out with Hipnotics in or build; but we have all dropped them (Cue those who haven't). I found them to slow/small vs. aggro decks and to easy to kill vs. control decks.

Honestly, I'm finding this deck sub par as I have it now. Decks with pyroclasm (and yes I know not to overextend) and Electrolyze are getting to many 2 or 3 for ones and decks with 8 pro black creatures and 4 Jitte are just to numerous in my area. Basicly that means that Vore and White bassed aggro are killing me. Now don't get me wrong I'm at about 70% win but for my money that's not good enough. As soon as I get my Arenas back (loaned em to a friend) I'll build a more contrilish version and see if I like it any better.

Ciao.

[PredatorGR]

hm so maybe HoC instead of hippies?
i mean i got some kicks out of coc and frostling but those 8 slots could go to better threads,right?

[Eternal Wizard]

I would go with HoC over Hypnotics, yes. I am however still a fan of Frosty and CoC in the more aggro version of the deck; but like I said I'm going to try a more controling style next.

Ciao.

[wyatt290]

Let me get this straight. Your store is ALLOWING Coldsnap legal cards on Friday??

Cool. Hope they're not making it DCI rated though, or they'll get in trouble..


Shhhh!!!

and by the way i dont think its DCI rated anyway ;)

[Silent tooth]

I've been reading this thread looking for a new deck list to play, currently I,m playing Urg control and i agree with eternal wizard with the amount of burn and control out right now. That said more card dicard may help coc / frostling ... rise/fall and a aggressive creature base. rix is a must to keep control off balance. this is a list i came up with after testing some of the builds and it has been aggro enough to beat the control in my meta
23 lands

4 frostling
4 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
4 Rakdos Guildmage
3 Rakdos Aurgermage
4 Giant Solifuge

4 coc
4 rise/fall
4 seal
3 Brain pry
3 Demonfire

side
3 Persecute
4 Phyrexian Arena
4 Wrecking Ball
3 Cranial Extraction

[wyatt290]

call me crazy i got this weird sideboard idea to hose control and sort of race out the aggro decks..........

4 megrim
4 delirium skiens
4 blackmail
3 last gasp(completley different purpose)


i dont think it'll work but its just an idea ;):P

[Burning Rakdos]

I just came back into Magic these pas few days. Got myself a Blood Crypt play set. I read the whole thread, very interesting. Got so many different R/B Aggro deck but my question is, which is more consistant caused Im building a deck for my Nats this coming August. Suggestions ???

[PredatorGR]

mod delete this plz

[littlewoodg]

I just came back into Magic these pas few days. Got myself a Blood Crypt play set. I read the whole thread, very interesting. Got so many different R/B Aggro deck but my question is, which is more consistant caused Im building a deck for my Nats this coming August. Suggestions ???

welcome back
2 suggestions

suggestion #1:
decide if you want to run aggro/control or control/aggro, thats the drift that Rakdos has taken. Most of the Rakdos lists include more than a little control, its a question of how much.

One thing that hasn't really developed is a straight-up Rakdos aggro...mainly due to mistrust/misunderstanding of the true aggro creatures in Dissension: Dread Slag, Avatar of Discord, Drekavac...they've been tested a little individually, sometimes even 2 together, but not as a trio, and not with the Rakdos MVPs...(people have told me its been tried, I'm still waiting for a link to the list/tests)

suggestion #2:
test for yourself, and ignore other peoples testing-free opinion. If you like aggro try something that "everyone knows" can't work, but is consistently beating Gruul beats, Zoo, Firemane, and 'vore in a very tough L.A. meta.

Creatures (23)
Dread Slag x 4
Avatar of Discord x 4
Rakdos Augermage x 4
Lyzolda, the Blood Witch x 3
Rakdos Guildmage x 4
Drekavac x 4

Other (14)
Demonfire x 2
Char x 4
Volcanic Hammer x 4
Seal of Fire x 4

Land (23)
Blood Crypt x 4
Sulfurous Springs x 4
Swamp x 6
Mountain x 6
Rix Maadi x 1
Shizo, Death's Storehouse x 1
Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep x 1

SB
Cruel Edict x 4
Umezawa's Jitte x 4
Hand of Cruelty x 4
Rain of Gore x 3

the list does require some subtlety in playstyle: for example, this isn't hellbent, there's only 1 spell that wants an empty hand, and its after the 5th land drop. Slag aside, the build runs on 3-4 mana, and frequently wins with just the 3cc-and-under spells so you don't need to be throwing valuable stuff away for an Avatar summon...the discards are tactical: Avatar is not a 3 drop, its a pre-Slag drop (and preferably post-Guildmage, post-Augermage drop)

[wyatt290]

well now getting to the point ignoring all lists which involve avatar of discord and dread slag becuase as it was disscussed much earlier on in the thread sucks the balls.

Well after the showing today im siddapointed agin yet again no showing of this deck oh well i seem to be doing well with the deck but have considered the following changes maybe uping the blue splash for the following cards..........

repeal: grrrr. odnt ya hate it when you opponent has 2 critters of 1 beign paldin and you have the hit//run well now bounce their crap critter back and force palaind to commit suicide.

Meloku: Make the deck a little bit more control and this guy is a game breaker let him hit for a turn or 2 and thats it GG!

clutch of the undercity: this one fore sure intriges me a bouce spell for 4 and it makes them lose a few life pretty good i would think but i think it might be a bit to mana intensive for now.

just throwing these out there any ideas?

[littlewoodg]

well now getting to the point ignoring all lists which involve avatar of discord and dread slag becuase as it was disscussed much earlier on in the thread sucks the balls...

the discussion you refer to never dealt with the above list, (which smokes firemane 4 out of 5 consistently, bu the way) I've searched this thread and the rest, and all I find is testing-free hot air, which as time goes by gets more self-satisfied, but no more informed

[Hedgemo]

My rakdos is considerably more suicidal...

4 squealing devil
4 nezumi cutt-throat
4 rakdos guildmage
4 hellhole rats
4 frenzied goblin

4 char
4 flames of the bloodhand
4 hit/run
4 demonfire
2 rain of gore

4 blood crypt
4 sulferous springs
1 tomb of urami
8 mountains
5 swamps

Gains nothing from coldsnap unfortunately. It's kind of an interesting deck thus far. Game is usually decided by about turn 4; either I've got them low enough that they will lose, or I'm out of gas and probably can't top a win.

[wyatt290]

the discussion you refer to never dealt with the above list, (which smokes firemane 4 out of 5 consistently, bu the way) I've searched this thread and the rest, and all I find is testing-free hot air, which as time goes by gets more self-satisfied, but no more informed


Sorry , littlewoodg i was just joking around. but really though the avatar isnt worth it you usually end up discards 2 and then they destroy himthey 3-1 you which isnt fun.

And for Dread Slag after you play down the avatr and have worked so hard to empty your hand for this 9/9 youlll be lucky to get 1 swing in with him before they kill him as well.


Ive been testing and testing and fishbowling my R/B.u list of this deck and i thought why not up the blue splash a little bit more and take out 4 shocks for remands its always nice to be able to counter a spell right?

so heres what i think i want to work with and remember this is coldsnap legeal.

5 swamps
4 mountain
1 steam vent
4 watery grave
2 u/b come into play tap land
2 r/b come into play tap land
4 blood crypt

4 rakdos augermage
4 rakdos guildmage
4 ravenouse rats
4 frostling
3 lyzolda
3 nekratall

4 rise//fall
4 remand
4 cry of contriction
4 hit//run

anyone think this would work or does anyone have any constructed critism on why it might not work in this deck.

[PredatorGR]

comes into play tapped land instead sulfurous springs?
hm i dont think those are necessary since they are bad tempo cards, unless of course you dont own the duals/painlands.
also why cut bob/arena for remand??? if you want to play remand cut something else to maintain card advantage.

[Burning Rakdos]

I got a question ... how does the deck deals with Paladin En-Vec. I was decktesting and I keep on lossing due to the Pally. Is there a wasy to get rid of him ??

[littlewoodg]

Sorry , littlewoodg i was just joking around. but really though the avatar isnt worth it you usually end up discards 2 and then they destroy himthey 3-1 you which isnt fun.

its cool...my bad.

I get aggravated hearing the same stuff that everyone's memorized about Avatar: "they 3 for 1 you if they remove him...he's a dead draw mid to late game". etc...all thats true if you're not using the rest of what works with Avatar: Slag, Drek, Augermage, Guildmage (Lyzolda) and a full burn suite. No one's tried it...and it works.

[littlewoodg]

I got a question ... how does the deck deals with Paladin En-Vec. I was decktesting and I keep on lossing due to the Pally. Is there a wasy to get rid of him ??

if you're running the aggro/control versions, MD or SB Jitte, Hand of Cruelty, Cruel Edict

[Burning Rakdos]

Thanks .. I even can sideboard Stromgald Crusader whenColdsnaps becomes legal.

[Eternal Wizard]

@Burning Rakdos: Well, the HoC and Crusader are really only an answer if they are packing a Jitte. I've had similar problems with the Paladin. Keep in mind that decks with Paladins often have Jittes of their own. All in all he's a nightmare for this deck if you are running an aggro version. If you are on the more controll oriented side you may have Hit/Run and Edict to help you out. Have you posted your decklist so we know where on the aggro/control scale you fall?

@littlewoodg: Sorry to jump on the Bashwagon but I'm of the opinion that the Avatar is horrible (Slag looks interesting though) for the very reasons YOU listed. Also how does the Avatar have any senergy with Drek (who forces even more discard from you), Augermage (who can't protect the Avatar from removal), Guildmage (who is now less efective because you probably discarded land to the Avatar), Lyzolda (well at least she can sac the Avatar). Also it is a dead draw mid to late game unless you've been holding land (or other spells) and thus limiting the effectiveness of Guildmages and Lyzolda. Like I said, sorry but the Avatar is just bad in a meta filled with spot removal, burn, or bounce; and almost no tier 1 deck has none of those. If 'everyone' is saying the same negative things about a card there may be something to what they are saying.

Ciao.

[wyatt290]

comes into play tapped land instead sulfurous springs?
hm i dont think those are necessary since they are bad tempo cards, unless of course you dont own the duals/painlands.
also why cut bob/arena for remand??? if you want to play remand cut something else to maintain card advantage.

thanks first of all.

but i really dont need the painlands ive been playing the dekc iwth tap lands it works fine i dont get screwed at all they were put in place of the bouncelands which none of you liked which is your opinon but they worked most of the time.

As for remand i tested it today i was very unhappy it actully did nothing maybe i needed more blue maybe it just doesnt fit. im not sure.
What did i cut?
shocks im not running bob or arena sideboard or main i find the deck does fine against control and i cant run bob becuase i urn hit//run which is a must and he carries jitte if i ran one of the 2 id ahve to run both.

As for arena?
i never really tested it but id play it in the sideboard becuase once it hits it stays VS. contorl and it usually helps pull out thw win.

[littlewoodg]

@littlewoodg: Sorry to jump on the Bashwagon but I'm of the opinion that the Avatar is horrible (Slag looks interesting though) for the very reasons YOU listed. Also how does the Avatar have any senergy with Drek (who forces even more discard from you), Augermage (who can't protect the Avatar from removal), Guildmage (who is now less efective because you probably discarded land to the Avatar), Lyzolda (well at least she can sac the Avatar). Also it is a dead draw mid to late game unless you've been holding land (or other spells) and thus limiting the effectiveness of Guildmages and Lyzolda. Like I said, sorry but the Avatar is just bad in a meta filled with spot removal, burn, or bounce; and almost no tier 1 deck has none of those. If 'everyone' is saying the same negative things about a card there may be something to what they are saying.
Ciao.
the old "if everyones sayng it, it must be true" is utterly fallacious, as you know: everyone used to say the earth was flat...didn't make it true. Once someone actually tried circumnavigating the planet instead of adding another testing-free opinion, a new paradigm was born. That is the point really, everyone has an opinion, but testing is another thing entirely. You haven't tested this list, and you haven't tested against it. Thats clear from what you're saying about avatar synergy in the list -

1st, theres no situation where Avatar reduces Guildmages effectiveness.

2nd, Avatar's synergy w/the other men: any discard-from-the hand spell (Augermage, Guildmage) negates the dreaded avatar dead draw issue...yes Avatar sacs to Lyzolda, but she sacs even better to Guildmage and Augermage when necessary...

Drek's synergy is w/Slag...helps empty the hand, the way Avatar does...(I didn't mean to say that the synergy was Avatar-DreK, sorry)

Answers exist for Avatar! (answers exist for all spells, its rock/paper/scissors)
and this deck consistently beats the decks that run those answers, 2 out of 3...(ie: 'vore, Firemane, and whatever else that runs spot and mass removal and fetters).

yes Slag is amazing, in this context (Drek, Avy and the rakdos MVPs).

if you try this, here are some tactics: Avatar isn't a 3 drop, she's a pre-Slag drop (thats where all those Avatar answers help me: Aggro tactics include the fact that there are answers for all the critters here...I'm hoping they're spending their removal on the Avatar, Lyzolda, Augermage, Squealing Devil, Drekavac, Guildmage, because the next bad boy is coming...and if they don't stop 'em all, well thats gg too.)

[Burning Rakdos]

@Internal Wizard, here's my deck. Any suggestion to make it better are much appreciated.

4x Rakdos Augermage
4x Dark Confidant
4x Rakdos Guildmage
2x Rakdos Pit Dragon
4x Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
4x Scorched Rusalka
1x Skeletal Vampire

4x Char
4x Seal of Fire
4x Cry of Contrition
2x Dragonfire

2x Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
4x Blood Crypt
2x Rakdos Carnarium
8x Mountains
7x Swamps

[Eternal Wizard]

@littlewoodg: Lol, we're not talking about weighty issues like: the shape of the world, what does God want, or how old is the universe here. We're talking about 1 card with very specific, set, characteristics.

Everytime you discard land to the avatar you have potentialy hurt the GM's effectiveness. Saying that it's a good thing to draw into a mid-late Avatar because you 'might' have a GM in play and maybe you'd rather give a creature that your opponent 'might' have in play -2/-2 instead of just making a token is WEAK. How often do you even use the GM's black ability? I very seldom do, there are much better/chaeper ways to kill dorks than 4 mana.
As for drawing it with an Augermage in play; would't you rather draw something you could play THEN use the AM's ability to force your opponent into discarding a card while you don't?
Drek and Avatar would feed a quick, huge Slag. That could be interesting but it is still a hella gamble.

Yes there are answers to all cards (game would be kinda pointless if there wern't); but the answers to Avatar are numerous and present in every tier 1 deck (cept maybe Heartbeat) is my point. Also if my opponent answers my "insert any card here" it's 1 for 1 not a 3 for 1. I know you're tired of hearing that but it's a fact.

I can deffinatly see slag being good vs. aggro.

I'm glad to see a different take on Rakdos, I just don't happent to like it. As for beating Vore/Zoo/Firemane/Gruul; those are not the problems that any1 is having (I think) the problems come from decks with Pro Red/Black creatures main or SB and to a lesser extent decks that are very heavy control. So if Zoo/Gruul/Vore/Angel were very popular in my meta than maybe I'd have a better opinion of the Avatar.


@Burning Rakdos: Well even though you got my name wrong I'll give some free advise (and remember advise is worth what you pay for it). :)

OK; looks like you are going the aggro route. So did I.
Scorched Rusalka is not a card I like because it can not target creatures. I'd run either Plagued Rusalka or Frostling there. T1 Frostling; T2 CoC, sac Frosty to kill Lion/Elf/Frenzied Goblin/ ect... is always nice. Double CoC is even better.

If you like the Pit Dragon keep him but I would rather have a Jitte in his slot. Jitte is still broken as ever and it absolutly kills us if our opponent gets one going.

Skeletal Vampire? WTH is he doing there? OUT with him.

Spells look solid except for one glaring hole. Where's Rise/Fall? Seriously, it's to good not to run so I'd put 4 in and rework the mana base to include 4-6 blue sources (I use 2 Watery Grave and 2 Steam Vents).

I also think that 22 land is enough so if you cut 1 land, the vampire, and 2 burn spells you'd have the 4 slots for the Rise/Fall.

That is my advise, take it for what it's worth.

Ciao.

[Burning Rakdos]

Firstly ... sorry for getting ur name wrong. Its Eternal Wizard right. Thanks for the suggestion on my deck. Here's an updated version.

4x Rakdos Augermage
4x Dark Confidant
4x Rakdos Guildmage
2x Rakdos Pit Dragon
4x Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
4x Frostling

4x Char
4x Seal of Fire
4x Cry of Contrition
4x Rise/Fall

2x Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
4x Blood Crypt
2x Rakdos Carnarium
2x Watery Grave
2x Steam Vents
5x Mountains
5x Swamps

[wyatt290]

Hello burning rakdos and Welcome to the forums.

our rakdos lists are very simalr they both have the spalsh of blue and both play bouncelands but may i suggest you cut the bouncelands for the new lands form coldsnap that come into play tapped?

May i suggest the following though?

cut -1 lyzolda i run 3 and even ill draw 2 its not a waste but its still nice to be able to have that one other card slot. Out with pitt dragon he always looked good at first i even found that when testing but you never have the hellbent to make him worth wild. so cut the 2 of them.

That leaves you with 3 open spots id throw in nekratall he kills so many things watchwolf/burning tree/scab-clan/heirarch firemane angel and soo many more creatures that you will see often in games.

Hit//Run is must in most rakdos decks mainly because of palaidn-en-vec he pretty much ruins our deck, that goes as well for many other untargetables.


@ eternal wizard:

I was thinking on changing my dekc to have a better chance VS. aggro but still have a good enough match-up vs control what do you think i should change?

3 watery grave
5 swamps
4 mountain
4 blood crypt
2 U/B tap land
2 R/B tap land

3 lyzolda
3 nekratall
4 rakdos augermage
4 rav rats
4 rakdos guildmage
4 frostling

4 rise//fall
4 hit//run
4 cry of contrition
4 shock

[Superman13]

one of my friends has one several big tournaments (or gotten second to my Zoo deck) with a really killer BR he uses the guildmage but he also squeezes in three copys of Kiki-jiki i havent seen that on anyones list yet

[magic_guru11]

4x Rakdos Augermage
3x dark confidant
4x Rakdos Guildmage
1x Rakdos Pit Dragon
4x Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
4x Scorched Rusalka

4x Char
4x Seal of Fire
1x Dragonfire
4x rise and fall

2x Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
4x Blood Crypt
4x sulferous springs
6x Mountains
6x Swamps

[Eternal Wizard]

@wyatt290:First off I'm suprised to see no draw in your deck. No Bob or Arena I think is a bad idea (but that's just me). I think if you want to move this deck into a more controlish, anti aggro, direction you need to run a full set of Hit/Run (which you do) and SB 4 Edict. I'd also run 4 Jitte as it is the best ansswer available to us for Paladin and a Jitted up Nekrataal can even swing into a SSS. Lastly you really need some card draw, I'd go with Arena since you have the Hit/Run in there. Whew, I just noticed that you run 20 land. I'm suprised that is working for you.

Ciao.

[wyatt290]

20 lands?
oops i made mistake somewhere it is supposed to be 22.

[littlewoodg]

tweaked back to critter heavier version:

Creatures (25)
Dread Slag x 4
Avatar of Discord x 4
Rakdos Augermage x 4
Lyzolda, the Blood Witch x 3
Rakdos Guildmage x 4
Drekavac x 3
Squealing Devil x 3

Other (12)
Char x 4
Volcanic Hammer x 4
Seal of Fire x 4

Land (23)
Blood Crypt x 4
Sulfurous Springs x 4
Swamp x 6
Mountain x 6
Rix Maadi x 1
Shizo, Death's Storehouse x 1
Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep x 1

SB
Cruel Edict x 4
Umezawa's Jitte x 4
Hand of Cruelty x 4
Rain of Gore x 3

boink went Hand in Hand last night, 3 games out of 4, man that was fun
dude couldn't hold off the damage and the fatties...

[fooligan]

howdy im back from vac...
not only that but id been working on another project before i left...
so i was wondering if there had been any new developments since i was last around...
i still need to test that stupid cry setup too... im getting behind...
im not going to be around too too much just yet either so i would appreciate being caught up...

[wyatt290]

not really just a lot of decks that included dread slag we explained why its not good but notihng really productive.

[littlewoodg]

hey fooligan - welcome back, whats vac?
"a lot of decks running Slag" is me...the results I'm getting: beating 'vore, zoo, gruul, firemane, (which I guess everyone else is too) and now hand in hand...

but avatarsux and slagsux, so those results can't be true

[Hedgemo]

No offense, but playing that pile and beating tier one decks means you're playing scrubs.

I've tested it, and I've watched kiddies at FNM play it and lose. Building 2 for 1's and 3 for 1's into your own cards generally does not a good deck make.

Dread slag has some redeeming qualities, and your deck isn't terrible, but avatar of discord and drekavac are just bad cards. Unless they decide to ban last gasp/lightning helix/mortify/putrify/wrecking ball/char/demonfire/ribbons of night/...you get the point.

If you're bent on playing the pitch creatures I'd recomend upping your discard suite. Fall is generally amazing, and delerium skeins can be crippling at the right time. Raping their hand can give your avatar at least a chance of not dying horribly.

[littlewoodg]

No offense, but playing that pile and beating tier one decks means you're playing scrubs.

I've tested it, and I've watched kiddies at FNM play it and lose. Building 2 for 1's and 3 for 1's into your own cards generally does not a good deck make.

Dread slag has some redeeming qualities, and your deck isn't terrible, but avatar of discord and drekavac are just bad cards. Unless they decide to ban last gasp/lightning helix/mortify/putrify/wrecking ball/char/demonfire/ribbons of night/...you get the point.

If you're bent on playing the pitch creatures I'd recomend upping your discard suite. Fall is generally amazing, and delerium skeins can be crippling at the right time. Raping their hand can give your avatar at least a chance of not dying horribly.

no offense taken - this is the kind of reaction I always get:

Either I hear "you must be playing scrubs" (thats if they don't flat out accuse me of fabricating the results)(truth is the scrub in those games was me...but they're the ones that ended up pissed off)

Or I get yet another avatarsux, or drekavacsux or slagsux type deep analysis

Whats newish here is when you say "I've tested it" Are you saying you've tested this list? (Not a list with Avatar and Drekavac in it, which could easily suck, but this list) I admit I'm skeptical that you've tested this because I've scoured the rakdos threads searching for it - and its not there.

testing the list, rather than gassing on about 2 of the spells is important (as important as pieces of cardboard can be...) because, well, you sound sharp enough to know its not about 1-2 spells, its about the whole deal, and how it works together...so, if there's a link to the list you played...hook me up.

Otherwise fall in line behind all the other people that haven't actually tried it, but want to tell me how it works...

[Eternal Wizard]

Well, after bashing littlewoodg's build I thought 'why not build it and test it instead of just looking at how horible it is on paper'. So I did (I don't like not being able to build a deck). Now I have not got in enough games to make my final impresions solid yet I can just say that so far the deck has absolutly................SUCKED. I mean you have to pitch cards to get creatures that are just going to die the second you play them (or as soon as they attack). Sometimes they don't die, they get bounced then killed. I especially loved having 3 dread slag in my hand at once (this means if you play one it dies during your next draw).
As for beating Hand in Hand; that's laughable. Pray tell how do you beat a deck with 8 pro red/black creatures, mortify, fetters, Jitte, 8.5, ect...? If you really are beating all the decks you claim then I am suspect of the builds and players behind those decks. However, I will continue to test this pile for a while just to make sure i have not been getting worse than avarage draws/results.

Ciao.

My test build:
24 land

4 GM
4 AM
4 Slag
2 Lyzolda
4 Avatar
4 Drekavak

4 Seal of Fire
4 Volcanic Hammer (chars loaned out)
2 Demonfire

2 Jitte
2 ? (forget those 2, at work right now)

[wyatt290]

no no no no no!!!!!

Just cut them completley please please your doing yourself
a huge favour were not tryin to make your deck bad were
here on the forums to help each other construct better decks
for the arch type of your chosing just please take our words for
it the decks much well without either fo them in the deck.

[littlewoodg]

As for beating Hand in Hand; that's laughable. Pray tell how do you beat a deck with 8 pro red/black creatures, mortify, fetters, Jitte, 8.5, ect...?

how I beat em was same way I beat firemane,'vore etal (who I guess everybody beats, or if y'all aren't beating 'em, and I am, then they must've been scrub players, or suboptimal builds...rofl): I ummm SB Edict, Jitte, Hand, then there's the MD burn, the 5/3 fliers, the 9/9 tramplers, and for sure Augermage helped...

Creatures (25)
Dread Slag x 4
Avatar of Discord x 4
Rakdos Augermage x 4
Lyzolda, the Blood Witch x 3
Rakdos Guildmage x 4
Drekavac x 3
Squealing Devil x 3

Other (12)
Char x 4
Volcanic Hammer x 4
Seal of Fire x 4

Land (23)
Blood Crypt x 4
Sulfurous Springs x 4
Swamp x 6
Mountain x 6
Rix Maadi x 1
Shizo, Death's Storehouse x 1
Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep x 1

SB
Cruel Edict x 4
Umezawa's Jitte x 4
Hand of Cruelty x 4
Rain of Gore x 3

note my earlier post, this list changed pre the hand in hand match-up back to this version...3 Drek, 3 Devil, no Demonfire...

After looking at your list EW do I really have to say this: if its not this exact list (and SB - SB is obviously an issue against Hand-in-Hand) then you're not going to get the results I'm getting. (No, you're right: 20 spells give-or-take shouldn't make a difference...)

[Eternal Wizard]

Ok; back home with my list. it was 4 hit/run main and the jittes SB. So it looked like this:

24 land

4 GM
4 AM
4 Slag
2 Lyzolda
4 Avatar
4 Drekavak

4 Seal of Fire
4 Volcanic Hammer (chars loaned out)
2 Demonfire
4 Hit/Run

With a SB of

4 Edict
4 Jitte
4 HoC
2 Extractions
1 Lyzolda

@littlewoodg: So my list is very close to your's (har har... 20 cards difference), and like i said, I still need to test some more. However, if anything I should post better results vs. Hand in Hand with the Hit/Run and the Edicts; we'll see if it does though.
I am trying to give the deck the benefit of the doubt; but if you care to have people listen to you, you could adopt a more positive tone. I know you have been catching it from many sides so I understand a little; but instead of just giving a laundry list of all the decks you beat maybe you could give more in depth covarage and some play tips. Do you not find yourself forced to discard cards you'd rather not (turn 2 Drek often means discarding burn or the only other land in my hand; both bad choices), or just having your avatar kiled right away. Slag does not meet up with condemn/putrefy/mortify/fetters? These are the things that keep happening to me. The deck has no discard so there is no way to try and gain card parity (in #) and no draw so your forced into topdeck in record time. These are my issues with it.

@AXEwl: You're a useless little noob indeed. I've seen about 4 of your post and they are all the same; a pointless 1 line bash. Enjoy yourself, no one else does.

Ciao.

[Eternal Wizard]

ok; 4 matches in and while that is no where near enough to make an informed opinion they were so one sided that it is worth reporting.

VS. sea stompyish ugr aggro deck 2-0 (hmm looking up) my crits were acctually bigger thanm his; and burn did the rest.

VS. Angel wierding 0-2. game 1; 2 faiths fetters stopped my early rush and once again i get 3 slag in hand with 4 mana in play. Reaver swings for the win with angeels in the grave. Game 2 see's an early wrath (killing drek + gm) followed by angels in the grave = burn nulification while counters stop any would be threats.

VS. angel weirding again (different player). Ditto last match right down to having 3 slags in hand again.

VS. WRG control (an odd deck). game 1 some burn followed by an Auger which eats a helix; drek is met with loxodon; Guild mage and drek die to a savage twister. Yosei joind lox in crushing me.
game 2 turn 3 avatar (ditching only land) met a STE aided wrath. T4 lyzolda eats a wrath; his turn 5 yosie met a Hit (woot). my turn 7 slag (5/5) eats a wrath. turn 8 drek met a helix.
some burn for a while. turn 11 slag met (you guessed it) wrath. Then i draw avatar on an empty hand.
Now him drawing 4 wrath was anoying but he drew 0 fetters which would have been just as bad.

All in all, I'm thinking that I am done with testing this. I'm about 2-8 and while that is a tiny sample the deck just does not work for me. Maybe it's a meta thing, 'shrug' but I don't think so.
hey if anyone wants to prove me wrong on MTGO I'll sell ya slags and avatars cheap.

ciao.

[Fireburns]

@EW
What did you think about the Slags? In a small number say something like 2 in our deck in the jitte spot (in my deck that spot is being held by Giant Solifuge) could they work? A 9/9 in our colors is hard to pass up. From what i have seen or i am seeing is that we are trying these so called bad cards in their max number and that in itself is bad starting in with maybe 2-3 and then adding a few here would be a better way to test them out instead of making a deck with them and just going to town. And i will say this about the list you used.......It doesn't look very good the avatars and drev require discard and the deck is mana intensive (GM, Bloodwitch, Dugeon Palace) and pitching land on T3 or T4 just isn't something i want to do volunteraily.

Side note i'm trying to get a MTGO playtest group going so send me your username.

[Rba]

Long time no see my Rakdos friends. How's the cult been going? Anyways, im thinking about playing this for States in October (Near Halloween, TimeSpiral legal unfortunatley). Does ColdCrap, im sorry, Coldsnap offer us anything halfway decent? I was thinking changing all the basic lands to snow lands of the respective type and playing Skred. *shrug* Just a thought.

[Rakavolver]

Does ColdCrap, im sorry, Coldsnap offer us anything halfway decent?

No need to apologize. You were right the first time.

It's a bit early to decide what to play at Champs, as we have no idea what Time Spiral will bring. Having said that, Jitte-less Champs will favor some decks more than others. UWg for example, loses only Hinder. We'll see what it gains in Spiral.

Coldsnap has cards that hurts Rakdos. I honestly forget what they are. Anyone remember? It also helps. There a list (briefly) on the front page of tcgplayer that I found intriguing. Had something like 4 new spells! I will research a bit today if I find the time.

The big "sexy beast" in Coldsnot seems to be Scrying Sheets. Obviously aimed to abuse Mono colored decks (which can certainly use the help .... good, the Standard meta wasn't complicated enough...:-)), I can see the card in a mostly mono-colored deck, which Rakdos can be if tuned toward say ... Black, since Frank Karsten anyway thinks SS helps Black the most.

He also thinks SS just misses the boat as being playable in Standard. Well, I don't know. I haven't tested, but I'm inclined to agree. My initial impression of the card was that its drawback was too stiff. Even Tomb of Urami makes colored mana.

[fooligan]

i like coldsnap... sort of... well more then most.... except draft... i dont like the dynamic...

i think ill play this deck tonight if i can get my act together... i havent played it in a week or so... i do want to play garza-zol-control... that deck is the coolest...
jitte is still necessary... nats and ol have shown us that... people are still playing their own jittes and white aggro decks... the larger scale emergance of these slower counter light control decks could be quite a boon ill have to check it out some more...

[Rakavolver]

I don't think Jitte was ever "not necessary" in anything with "Aggro" as even part of its name, do you? OK, when it first came out, Sword of Fire and Ice was clearly the better card (in my household it was), but lots of Swords players threw a couple Jittes in their decks as well.

Jitte is retarded. Seems like if a deck doesn't run Jitte, it runs Wraths and/or Pyroclasms and/or Hideous Laughters.

Well, good luck to you fooligan, tonight. What are your sideboard subs for Japaninator Solar Flare UWB again?

[Fireburns]

Well Fooligan i hope you do really well tonight, but as for sideboarding Vs Solar Flare. Shattering spree should do really well in that match up and Crainal is good for every match-up.

[fooligan]

jitte is very strong removal, if aggro doesnt run it, its b/c their afraid to for some reason or they play faster with burn.

what i was saying was that for a little while you could afford to make it a preferance (and optimal-ity*?*) issue, but thats no longer the case... the format and the nature of our deck call for it again...

distress and okiba gang will do some damage... stupid clunky reanimator subtheme... slowing them down... and all the signets make for alot of tempo loss as they waste turns with ****ty draws and trying to dig themselves out of mana draws.
its clearly by no means a sure thing though.... on the plus side they dont play pyro!

[Fireburns]

Well here a deck list it's not mine but you can go off of this one.
Main Deck
23 land
2 Adarkar Wastes
2 Hallowed Fountain
4 Godless Shrine
4 Caves of Koilos
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
2 Orzhov Basilica
1 Azorius Chancery
1 Miren, the Moaning Well

10 creatures

4 Court Hussar
3 Angel of Despair
3 Kokusho, the Evening Star

27 other spells

4 Remand
4 Compulsive Research
4 Condemn
4 Wrath of God
3 Persecute
2 Zombify
2 Dimir Signet
4 Azorius Signet

15 sideboard
4 Descendant of Kiyomaro
3 Mimeofacture
2 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
3 Sacred Ground
2 Last Gasp
1 Cerulean Sphinx

They have condemn and wrath of god, no hard counter's means that cranial for wrath can allow you to swarm them to death, but of course all sideboards are different and even some of the Main decks vary but they all follow the same theme control then beater, beater dies reanimate it. We have a heavy discard suite more than most decks the most maybe and that alone puts the screws to most decks and puts them in a hole that they can't climb out of.

[Touyokouzan]

im heavly considering gravepact. What do you guys think about? Im really learning toward it. I could always board it out for arena or something...

[Fireburns]

What are you using the gravepact exactly? What creatures are bothering you that you can't kill? Or simply overrun?

[Touyokouzan]

This is the build i have in mind...

3 hellhole rats
4 lyzolda
4 argermage
4 r. guildmage
4 ravenous rats
4 natuko husk

4 cry of contrition
4 flames of the blood hand
4 SOF

SB
3 megrim
2 arena(only have 2)
4 hit/run
2 defense grid
3 war's toll( actually this worked pretty well against control in my old area)

this is what i have so far. I just moved to a new area so i dont know what the metagame is like here. i dont know what else to put into this deck either. I only have 1 char and one demonfire. Im gonna play the demonfire. But i need more chars. ANY help on this deck would be great. thanks guys

[fooligan]

i highly reccomend it in the sb as a 3 of with an extra swamp.
i was even playing it in the maindeck for a while but it got clunky... i will likly play it main deck post rote.

fireburns: you play enough sac effects, black sources and dudes to play it... and it will dominate the creature based matchups when active... you also have guildmage who makes extra dudes to either be sacced or die in combat...
it beats pro guys and untargetable and make each of your guys trade double, one of the strongest cards in the aggro matchup...
i think i might friends your team Touyokouzan

[Eternal Wizard]

@Touyokouzan: Hey if you get around to testing Grave Pact LMK how it does. I've been thinking about using it as well; but so far i have not found time to test it.

@Fireburns: It's for the same decks that we would like to have Hit/Run and Cruel Edict for. Namely anything running Paladin and HoH.

Ciao.

[Touyokouzan]

i think i might friends your team Touyokouzan
Thanks for the help. But what does this mean exactly? lol


@Touyokouzan: Hey if you get around to testing Grave Pact LMK how it does. I've been thinking about using it as well; but so far i have not found time to test it.

@Fireburns: It's for the same decks that we would like to have Hit/Run and Cruel Edict for. Namely anything running Paladin and HoH.

Ciao.

Im actually going to test it tonight. Im hearing there are alot of agro decks in this area from a friend. So im gonna try it main deck to see how it works

[Eternal Wizard]

I'm not a fan of the Hellhole Rats and in a heavy aggro meta I like them even less. I'd give some thought as to their slot; but that is just me.

Ciao.

[Touyokouzan]

whats another good card that could force discard???

[fooligan]

screw discard and put cards in your own hand...
get some confidants

[Touyokouzan]

i have 3 so i guess i could use them... alright thanks ill do that

[Eternal Wizard]

If I were to run a Rakdos Aggro this is the list I'd play:

Land (22)
2 Rix Maadi
2 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
4 Blood Crypt
4 Sulfurous Springs
4 Swamp
4 Mountain

Creatures (20)
4 Frostling
4 Bob
4 Rakdos GM
4 Rakdos AM
4 Lyzolda

Spells (18)
4 Volcanic Hammer
4 Cry of Contrition
4 Rise/Fall
4 Seal of Fire
2 Jitte.

SB is obviously meta dependant but good calls are
cruel edict
cranial
rain of gore (maybe)
hit/run
shinobi
grave pact

Like I said; that's what I'd run.

Ciao

[Touyokouzan]

OK this is my deck that im prolly gonna run tonight.... Please tell me what you think of it.

Creatures(20)
3 husk
4 lyzolda
4 R.argurmage
4 R guildmage
3 bob
2 R rats


4 Flames of the blood hand
4 Cry of Contrition
1 war's toll
4 seal of fire
1 demon fire
3 jitte

rest land

SB:

3 threaten
3 blood moon
3 gravepact
4 hit/run
2 defense grid

what you guys think???

[wyatt290]

im back from FNMi came 4th beating 2 w/b/g vitu ghazi control and losing to
solare flare no bigg suprises eh?

just one question though touyokanzozozkkoanzaw why nantuko husk is it bad to sac all you men?

[Touyokouzan]

Creatures(20)
3 husk
4 lyzolda
4 R.argurmage
4 R guildmage
3 bob
2 R rats


4 Flames of the blood hand
4 Cry of Contrition
1 war's toll
4 seal of fire
1 demon fire
3 jitte

rest land

SB:

3 threaten
3 blood moon
3 gravepact
4 hit/run
2 defense grid

Using this build I actually won tonight. Blood moon is a god send against non basic land cards. I also won against firemane boarding in 3 blood moons and 2 defense grids, taking out 4 SOF and 1 wars toll. Wars toll actually did alot better tonight than i thought. I think im gonna have to make this build a little better to get it working the way it should. Im pretty happy with this build

2-0 firemane/2-1 solar flare(still wondering how i won that match =\)/2-0 mirror match(Gravepact did really well in this match up actually hehe)

As for me running gravepact in the main board. Id suggest it if your meta game is heavy agro. It works really well as I tested tonight.

[wyatt290]

Well welcome to the Rakdos-aggro control thread!

HOW THE HELL DID YOU BEAT SOLAR FLARE!
i played against it tonight andi had him down to no cards in hand and then he played down meloku floowed by next turn bouncing 7 lands and swings and puts me on a two turn clock.

A friend of mine had showed me secret tech for against for against solar flare its called threaten and then you sac it to your lyzolda and drain some life with their kokusho or tap out with yosei its very good.
I hate the remands in the deck there may only be 4 but they draw them very often which is a piss off.

I wanna just ask a few questions like why nantuko husk and did blood moon have a big effect against you or a bigger effect on your opponents.

[Touyokouzan]

Bloodmoon didnt have that big of an affect on me as i thought it would have on me. I wasnt running any non basic lands LOL. I dont have blood crypt's So i had to play basic lands the whole time. Which Start of the game was a huge problem. Against flare i ended up boarding out 3 SOF for 3 Threaten. That worked wonders lol. Nantuko Husk was in the deck for me because it was a target for them to get rid of. I found with husk That they tend not to pay to much attention to other cards(unless lyzolda is on the feild already) I also use the husk as another sacrifice outlet during combat lol. I just happen to like the husk last night in all of my match ups. Blood moon HURTS against alot of control decks I think. game 2 against solar flare i dropped it turn 3 and it was hard for him the rest of the way. hehe.

[littlewoodg]

@EW, sorry about my 'tude, you're right, I come across as harsh and I shouldn't...

mea culpa: too many hours and iterations developing this, too much actual success (finally!) and then too many people calling me a liar and a noob...(or bashing the skill of my opponents!)

in other words there's too many know-it-alls out here (including me)


@littlewoodg: So my list is very close to your's (har har... 20 cards difference)

this may be moot, given your frustrating results with your list, but here goes:
I said that thing about 20 cards difference before you posted your SB-

But-
there is a 16 item difference between your list and mine (This from the list I posted re: my wins against Hand, and the last version you posted) The differences are decisive...

-4 Hit//Run
-1 land
-1 Drekavac
-2 Demonfire
+3 Squealing Devil
+4 Char
+1 Lyzolda

Though not fashionable, the full burn suite is critical (Char) for reach (and tempo. when you play this you'll know what I mean).

The option to target dome/critter is oldschool priceless in here, against all comers, aggro and control, and a deck that swings once each w/Slag and Avatar, and lands a couple of Chars to the dome is a deck that wins...(pro-red/black critters consistently have little to say here, given the evasion - trample, flying, fear - and reach - 36 damage burn - at the core of the list)

burnwise its just the 12, Demonfire never really made the cut - the only use its had for my wins was as DreK fodder

the add'tl critters (-1 Drek, +3 Devils bring #men to 25) is also crucial...threats and burn is all you're dropping - this is aggro

play style (again may be moot):
main question is, whats Avatar? Not a 3 drop, except in rare instances...she's a pre-slag drop. She's a decoy that they had better answer (because the decoy also happens to be a howitzer) and she's discard tactics for slag. Thats all she really needs to do here. Sucker their fire away from your next beatstick (slag or whoever), and prep for Slag's SBE.

She's nothing special, just a means to an aggro end: do damage, and/or clear the way for someone else to do damage. The twist in the tail here is that she's really here first for the clearing (decoy/draw fire and discard), but her swing is unholy.

I appreciate you giving this a try, even if only partly.

Your list will surprise you if you try the changes

Creatures (25)
Dread Slag x 4
Avatar of Discord x 4
Rakdos Augermage x 4
Lyzolda, the Blood Witch x 3
Rakdos Guildmage x 4
Drekavac x 3
Squealing Devil x 3

Other (12)
Char x 4
Volcanic Hammer x 4
Seal of Fire x 4

Land (23)
Blood Crypt x 4
Sulfurous Springs x 4
Swamp x 6
Mountain x 6
Rix Maadi x 1
Shizo, Death's Storehouse x 1
Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep x 1

SB
Cruel Edict x 4
Umezawa's Jitte x 4
Hand of Cruelty x 4
Rain of Gore x 3

[kaskamerica]

Just a quick question, is there a Borakdos deck yet? I was getting geared up for GenCon and I wanted to be original and maybe make a R/B/W deck taking the keys of Rakdos.dec and adding stuff like Lightning Helix and Mortify?

Let me know if there is anything out there like that?

[Rba]

Isnt that Dark Zoo? But a more controllish version i presume? I used to have a list that was based along those lines, shame i dont have it anymore, sorry.

[Touyokouzan]

Just a quick question, is there a Borakdos deck yet? I was getting geared up for GenCon and I wanted to be original and maybe make a R/B/W deck taking the keys of Rakdos.dec and adding stuff like Lightning Helix and Mortify?

Let me know if there is anything out there like that?

Actually i had a friend of mine do that b4. It didnt work to well for him tho. He did those exact things to lol. I think rakdos is good enough on its own with out having to be splashed for anything.

[phantomass]

If I were to run a Rakdos Aggro this is the list I'd play:

Land (22)
2 Rix Maadi
2 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
4 Blood Crypt
4 Sulfurous Springs
4 Swamp
4 Mountain

Creatures (20)
4 Frostling
4 Bob
4 Rakdos GM
4 Rakdos AM
4 Lyzolda

Spells (18)
4 Volcanic Hammer
4 Cry of Contrition
4 Rise/Fall
4 Seal of Fire
2 Jitte.

SB is obviously meta dependant but good calls are
cruel edict
cranial
rain of gore (maybe)
hit/run
shinobi
grave pact

Like I said; that's what I'd run.

Ciao

It's almost the same build as mine excepted that...I'm playing no Bobs :eek: preferring 3 Nekrataals and 2 Ink-Eyes :cool: . I playtested during long months, sometimes using Bobs sometimes Arenas and finally I choosed to run neither B nor A. I must say that my version is very stable now, I roxx control with Discard (Rix-Maadi :cool: :cool: :heart: ), having sometimes some problems with the godly-curved Gruul. But I guess that the sideboard will do the job (Last Gasp,
Slay).

@ everybody: What cards from the Coldsnap expansion have made the cut for you ? :br:

[knight_saber]

Hiya, new here, but I thought I would post my verison - which I'm maybe takin gto the last chance qualifers for the Scottish nationals in early September and see wha tfolk think.

Creatures (20) :-

4 Dark Confident
4 Hand of Cruelty
2 Pit Dragon
4 Guildmage
3 Blood Witch
3 Augermage

Spells (18):-

4 Distress
4 Seal
3 Char
3 Flames
2 Wrecking Ball
2 Jitte

Land (22):-

7 Swamp
7 Mountain
4 Blood Crypt
2 Sulphrous Springs
2 Rix Maadi

Sideboard :-

4 Cruel Edict
2 Giant Solifage
2 Cranial
2 Persecute
2 Sahttering Spree
3 Eradicate

The deck works fairly well at casual magic beat my freinds Tron deck most of the time... Where I live there are no stores for FNM but I tihn kit should do ok.

The sideboard does keep changing, but thats a the current version. Any thoughts/ideas appreciated.

Ta

[Eternal Wizard]

I have been testing a different take on R/B latley and having very good results
with it. This is not really a Rakdos deck but since this is the B/R thread I'll post it here.

Dumb Burn:

22 Land

4 Bob
4 Solifuge

4 SoF
4 Lava Spike
4 Glacial Ray
4 Volcanic Hammer
4 Flames
4 Hit/Run
2 Threaten
4 Genju


SB:
1 Demonfire
2 Threaten
4 CE
4 Blood Moon
4 Shattering Spree


Like the name implies it's a dumb little pile of burn; but it has been winning a lot (75%). I've even had to deal with Ivory Mask (but no CoP Red or Story Circle yet) and had little problem. It does loose to Gruul but that seem to be it's only really bad match-up.

So, what do you all think?

Ciao.

[Randompal]

it certainly beats solar flare... a solar flare deck cant handle a turn 1 genju turn 2 dark confidant and turn 3 8 dmg total... and if he can get a court hussar in game then just burn it next turn and then hit for another 8.. its a great deck... but i dont think the solifuges fit in there... genjus are enough... instead put in 4 frostlings.. great turn 1 drop and can kill a creature...

-randompal

[Eternal Wizard]

I have tried removing both the Solifuge and the Genju (not at the same time) but the thing is; they really work against different decks. I mean Genju is great at delivering the hurt but with spot removal at an alltime high it's a risk (not thay you mind loosing the mountain but paying 3 mana and not getting anything sux); and the Genju is the BOMB at geting into play under counters. Solifuge mean while will just keep swinging till he runs into something or a wrath/pyro; and he requires no mana after the first turn so you can swing with him and sling burn spells. There is also the fact that there is nothing else I'd rather have in the deck. Char is missing but I never feel its' loss. If my opponent drops a x/4 creature I usually just ignore it and BURN BURN BURN or if I've drawn a Threaten then I borrow it.
As for using Frosty, I love the dude (as my other post verify); but in this deck having him swing for 1 on turn 2 is just not that imperssive and I already have 12 1cc drops.

I'm going to test it more but like I said, cept for Gruul it has no bad matchups.

Ciao

[Wrar]

I'm sure someone has already mentioned this but the list that did well in some regionals that had white splashe in is completely phenominal. The only complicated thing about it, is playing lands correctly. If you aren't a retard, you have a very good chance of doing this properly.

If you want to look at the deck, browse through the regionals lists.

[Fireburns]

Which regionals?

[PredatorGR]

4x hit/run in the same deck with bob?
wow!

[Rakavolver]

4x hit/run in the same deck with bob?
wow!

Yeah, right? I already hate having Rise/Fall in my build, what, I should add to the pain?

Why Glacial Ray? Just curious. I'm thinking Spell Snare. How about Shock?

I still believe in the list in my siggy. It's pretty old now (thanks to metagame shifts, things get old FAST!), but the fundamentals are the same.

@-Wrar - yah mon, we'd be interested in seeing the RBw list. A RBu deck Top 4rd at Halifax, Nova Scotia, to take total advantage of the Rise part of Rise//Fall.

In any event, RBw and RBu should be fully explored. Those are the two colors, w and u, that seem best suited to shore up this guild's weaknesses. I choose to stick with just the two colors for now, and Rakdos Augermage is one reason, and consistancy is the other. That may not be the way to go ... we may very well need the splash, but Rakdos is fun as heck for me right now with just the two.

[Fireburns]

I'm guessing the W splash is for mortify? in place of what? Also is the deck R/B/u/w?

[Dyne]

Or Helix....

[Fireburns]

I can't find it.....is it regionals or Nationals. Or are you confusing this deck with Dark Boros?

[Fireburns]

Anyone find the deck list yet?

[wyatt290]

yes its played by zack wolff he came 3rd at a califonnia regionals go to MTG.com and look at the regionals reports and its under one of the california top 8's.

Or you can look at the article mike flores wrote on may 25 about regionals
he tlaks about dark boros and its strength at the bottom of his article.

It is a very strong deck besides the strongnes of its price ive been fishbowling the deck on apprentice i like it alot im either gonna aply dark boros or rakdos blue i really havent decided yet.

[gage]

wyatt dont be posting decks you dont have build . lier you dont have masterpiece or erayo ninjas build so change your thing. WHAT A LIER

[Reiver S]

Hiya, mostly new to the forums, but the good ideas flowing around here make me want to join in and discuss. Currently I'm testing this:

4 Frostling
3 Lyzolda
4 Augermage
4 Guildmage
4 Rav Rats
3 Nekrataal

4 Volc Hammer
4 Jitte
4 Rise/Fall
4 Hit/Run

SB
4 Arena
4 Blackmail
4 Last Gasp
3 Solifuge

This deck is something I've been toying with for about a week, and it seems to be pretty solid. Haven't played it in a tourney, but with a few friends testing some top decks with me, it performs pretty well. Lots of answers for most things.

I'm really curious about your opinions on Frostling. How good is he to this deck, above other one drops? I'm thinking Frenzied Goblin over him personally, to get more damage through creatures. With Nek, Hit/Run, Volc Hammer and Lyzolda, it can usually force through a lot of damage, but it seems like Frenzied Goblin could put more though. But Frostling looks like the popular choice in the forum, so I figured I'd ask.

Thanks for any input and suggestions.

[Fireburns]

Well the frostling for for the builds that use CoC. That way you play CoC and then use the haunt targeting the Frostling and then you are able to have "instant speed discard" so to speak by sac'ing the frostling to itself to set off the haunt triggers during your opponents draw phase. But in your build your not using CoC so you can change it. But here is my list for the Frostling Build.

4 Wrecking Ball
4 Cry of Contrition
4 Rise // Fall
4 Phyrexian Arena
4 Seal of Fire
1 Demonfire
2 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
2 Watery Grave
4 Blood Crypt
4 Sulfurous Springs
5 Swamp
5 Mountain

4 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
4 Rakdos Guildmage
4 Frostling
3 Rakdos Augermage
2 Giant Solifuge

Sideboard
4 Cruel Edict (may turn into hit // run)
3 Cranial Extraction
2 Shattering Spree
2 Flashfire (maybe Boil)
3 Dark Confidant
1 Demonfire

[wyatt290]

well Fireburns you've been here long enough that we dont need to tell you how to play the deck but im very thankful you took our suggestion to take out tha avtars and dread slaggs.

-4 wrecking ball
+4 wreacking ball in sideboard

im upping the blue after doing some good testign im puttign in consult the negrosages it helps late game when digging for answers and its awesome snagging 2 cards out of your opponents hand im also gonna change around the board and mmake it dedicated towards slapping aggro in the crotch becuase it one of my matches that i have a harder time with.

-4 CoC
-2 quicksand
-2 tresserhorn sinks
-2 frost marsh

+4 consult the necrosages
+3 underground river
+1 watery grave
+2 sulfurous springs

[Fireburns]

well Fireburns you've been here long enough that we dont need to tell you how to play the deck but im very thankful you took our suggestion to take out tha avtars and dread slaggs.

I never used Avatars or Dread Slaggs. I'm sure they have a place somewhere in a B/R deck but not the one i'm running.

[wyatt290]

oh that must have been someone else then sorry lol.

[littlewoodg]

oh that must have been someone else then sorry lol.
that was me-

This is what I'm trying (I'll flame Avatar and Slag for y'all: #!@#^%$) so you can move on and look at the list as a list...(as is, this already does far better than you think...no offense to my fellow know-it-alls)

23 creatures
Dread Slag x 4
Avatar of Discord x 4
Rakdos Augermage x 4
Rakdos Guildmage x 4
Drekavac x 3
Wild Cantor x 4
16 other
Blackmail x 4
Rise / Fall x 4
Hit / Run x 4
Wrecking Ball x 4
21 land
Pillar of the Paruns x 4
Blood Crypt x 4
Sulfurous Springs x 4
Swamp x 4
Mountain x 5
SB
hand of cruelty
cruel edict
rain of gore
umezawa's jitte

been thinking about taking it even further into the multicolor, the Pillar of the Paruns is the nuts here...!

I get to use the Rise of Rise / Fall and the Run of Hit / Run w/out splash (timing mid-late game for these 2 is like poetry)...

which makes me see possibilities for golds and other stuff, maybe adding splash green for some dredge items cloak and grave-shell scarab, maybe BoP for speed, crime//punishment for more split fun, naturalize for sometimes needed enchantment hate...then there's white (instead of, or with !? green) for lightning helix and mortify, skyknight legionnaire...?

as I said its doing very well as is, ultra fun and knocking hard on tier1s door..

[Rakavolver]

As I predicted, the horror that is Coldsnap Standard, all two months of it, begins tomorrow. I say "horror" because as you can see, Dissension Standard has ended, 2 months too soon, with none of the guilds fully explored, and because it's a dead season tomorrow, won't ever be. Sigh. I mean, look at the variety of decks here! In this one guild! Awesome, but tweaks must be done.

Normally I wouldn't mention the above, but Rakdos is one guild that will TOTALLY change in Coldsnap Standard, given the number of good new cards we can exploit for this guild. Haven't thought about it much; will try to make the time this week to do so.

Hopefully you all go to magicthegathering.com once a week. If you do so, you'll find a TON of Rakdos technology there as this is Rakdos week. This is still my favorite guild (IMO Azorius is the best and Izzet and Orzhov are no slouches, but Rakdos is my personal fav), as I've found Gruul to be a tremendous disappointment. One tech point for now:

Frenzied Goblin > Scorched Rusulka, Frostling

Frostling/CoC is a sweet combo, but I hate combos, especially when I get one part and not the other.

The upcoming SHORT season may turn out to be faster than we like, as we Rakdos (the UNsociable guild) players like Control seasons best. Scrying/Top will speed things up. Top goes away when Time Spiral rotates in. God only knows what that set will bring.

[Rakavolver]

Well, that was a short week. :-)

Um, I thought there would be more cards in Coldsnap than I found for Rakdos in Coldsnap Standard. I can only hope the other guilds had the same bad luck. Here are the five I like, and not all of them will make the cut:

- Stromgald Crusader
- Mishra's Bauble
- Lightning Storm
- Deathmark (board)
- Coldsteel Heart

Remove Coldsteel Heart, simply because I see no room for it, and that leaves 4, with Lightning Storm as a board card, at best. If I actually decide to run it.
Deathmark, maybe. Might be crowded out. Might not if Adarkar Valkyrie turns out to be good.

There are a LOT of cards that just missed, and a ton of cards I'd love to play if only .... they didn't cost seven.

In general though...

- I will not run a snow deck in Rakdos. I will not run a Knight deck, so that leaves out Haakon.
- I will not run Cumulative Upkeep, not in Standard, and not in this deck which uses alot of mana as is. Braid of Fire is sexy, but it has to replace something, and it will be tough enough fitting the others in.
- The Recover mechanic impresses me not. Grim Harvest looks sweet, but again, there are better cards in the two-slot.
- Considered Dark Depths and Rimescale Dragon, but decided Gruul can abuse them better. Think: green.
- Considered Stalking Yeti and Lightning Serpent, decided MonoRed Top Sheets could abuse them more, and better.
- Martyr of Bones has usage vs decks with Zombify, but is too narrow.
- Cards like Soul Spike, which I can see in decks like MonoBlack Top Sheets, aren't great in this deck if permission is popular, and permission is popular. I do not want to 3 for 1 myself. Well, maybe with Zombify, but that's not this deck.
- Let's not discuss Phyrexian Ironfoot. OK, let's. Sweet answer to Pally en-Vec. K. So? I already have stuff for that. Overkill.
- Gutless Ghoul, Goblin Furrier, Phobian Phantasm, and Karplusan Wolverine were considered hard before dismissal.

I have thoughts on all the cards, but my wireless (never again!) keybord is acting lik Galvtrn's so Ill go nw.

[Fireburns]

- Considered Stalking Yeti and Lightning Serpent, decided MonoRed Top Sheets could abuse them more, and better.

The Lighting Serpent is a great card and we can easily use it and it can deal a lot of damage quickly, we have so many other creatures that need to be killed immediately so they'll take a lot of insta death from him. It's funny that i'm going to say this after talking about the Serpent, but the Yeti cost to much and is too mana intensive for this deck.



- Martyr of Bones has usage vs decks with Zombify, but is too narrow.

The Martyr of Ashes is better than Bones.



- Gutless Ghoul, Goblin Furrier, Phobian Phantasm, and Karplusan Wolverine were considered hard before dismissal.

Karplusan Wolverine is a good one drop also he can't be blocked by anything with */1. And can only be killed by a */3 in battle.

[Fireburns]

Time to breath a little more life into a once good thread. Here is the list of the Norwegian Nationals Winner
Øyvind Andersen
Norwegian Nationals 2006 Winner - Satanic Sligh


Main Deck
60 cards
12 Mountain
4 Sulfurous Springs
4 Blood Crypt
3 Swamp
23 land

4 Dark Confidant
3 Frostling
2 Rakdos Guildmage
2 Hearth Kami
1 Giant Solifuge
12 creatures

4 Genju of the Spires
4 Seal of Fire
4 Volcanic Hammer
4 Char
4 Hit // Run
3 Yamabushi's Flame
2 Shock
25 other spells

4 Pithing Needle
4 Cruel Edict
3 Bottled Cloister
2 Giant Solifuge
2 Honden of Infinite Rage
15 sideboard cards

Well at least we took a National Title he talks about the deck here.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/fk2

[PredatorGR]

hit/run together with bob won nationals???
hm there must have been some luck involved i might say...

[Eternal Wizard]

Meh, not really. I've been running my RB with 4 Bobs and 4 Hit/Run for some time now. Now my version has more burn and fewer creatures than his but only by 4. His/My deck does not really care about self inflicted pain because unless you run into another burn deck your opponent will not be dealing damage to you at all for the first 6-8 turns or so by which time it should be over.

Ciao.

[Haemoglobin]

Well, that was a short week. :-)

Um, I thought there would be more cards in Coldsnap than I found for Rakdos in Coldsnap Standard. I can only hope the other guilds had the same bad luck. Here are the five I like, and not all of them will make the cut:

- Stromgald Crusader
- Mishra's Bauble
- Lightning Storm
- Deathmark (board)
- Coldsteel Heart



I would say that Deathmark and Kroviken Rot are both excellent SB cards and should be up for consiseration. Mishra's Bauble might be good in sligh type version like that that won Norwegian Nationals, even though I don't like his build at all. I mean, Yamabushi's Flame? WTF?

[Fireburns]

@EW:
What's your new list I'm thinking of a Hybrid of the 2 decks. I like the burn alot because it can be aimed at the opponent and i also love the Blood Witch and Giant Soilfuge.

@Haemoglobin:
You have to read the article he tells you why he choose Yam Flame.

[Haemoglobin]

Why didn't he take out the 3 Yamabushi's Flame and put in another 2 Shock and another Rakdos Guildmage? I really, really dislike his list

[Rakavolver]

He rejects Demonfire. He chose Yama Flame as the best burn spell left. Paul Cheon US Nats Champ helped him design it. A friend he shared the deck with also made Top 8 with the same list. Other explanations:

"OnlineTech: What are the good matchups and bad matchups of the deck?
wefald: Anything with tokens is bad, so Snakes is unwinnable. GhaziGlare (with Selesnya Guildmage) and Ghost Husk (with Promise of Bunrei) are also pretty bad. That is because in creature matchups in general, Satanic Sligh should take stance of a control deck (you even board in the Bottled Cloisters) and plans to go one-for-one with removal on their creatures. If they have token producers, you will run out of removal quickly and you will never be able to clear a path for Genju of the Spires. I used to have Rakdos Ickspitter in the board, which was great against those matchups, but eventually I streamlined the deck to just beat the more popular decks.

OnlineTech: How about the matchups against those decks then?
wefald: Solar Flare and Izzetron are close to byes. My record against Solar Flare, combining online and in real life, is 15-2 and counting. Heartbeat and Magnivore are 50/50 matchups, mostly depending on the die roll. Hand in Hand, well, that just depends on their build.

OnlineTech: A big problem for your deck appears to be Paladin en-Vec, since it has protection from both of your colors. Aren’t you afraid of that card?
wefald: Paladin en-Vec by himself is no big deal, since it usually has to stay on defense and I can kill it with Cruel Edict or Hit // Run. Paladin en-Vec plus Umezawa’s Jitte or multiple Paladin en-Vecs are problematic though. "

I tested and rejected the Edicts a long time ago. The best answer to Jitte is Jitte, and ... Pithing Needle, especially in a deck whose two colors can't handle artifacts. (Coldsnap hurts Pally further with the new arty creature .... but this was Diss Std.)

This deck is mostly red; I take my decks where they go. Demonfire doesn't suck, if someone gets you into a long game, they rock. What disagreements I have are minor, if nothing else it shows you Rakdos is underexplored. Good for the Norwegians though, and curse their Viking ancestors for raping my English ones. Skol.

[Char you]

hey everyone im new to the forums. im a fellow rakdos player from the oc and this is the deck list that ive been playing and doing well with. any advise on what to change or what to keep is more than welcome.

3 Frenzied Goblin
3 Hearth Kami
4 Dark Confidant
4 Rakdos Guildmage
4 Hand of Cruelty
3 Drekavec
3 Giant Solifuge

4 Char
4 Volcanic Hammer
3 Flames of the Blood Hand
3 Last Gasp

4 Blood Crypt
4 Sulfurous Springs
1 Rix Maadi
8 Swamp
5 Mountain

sb-
3 Threaten
3 Jitte
3 Graverobber
3 Cruel Edict
1 Drekavec
1 Frenzied Goblin
1 Flames of the Blood Hand

[Akujin]

Why no arenas probaly the best card advantage for black right now what is better than more burn.

[wyatt290]

well arenas ok i think its a meta card in this deck youll take wayy to much damage for against zoo but itll probly be worth if your good at ripping nekrataal and hammers but i dont see it working.

As for a controled enrivonment i think its the perfect card to keep your opponent busy countering all of your spells. As well as you snagging cards out their hands every turn.

[Galvatron]

arana is good if you need to top deck cards constanylu but not play then right away and they cost alot Bob is more AGro based an goes in decks with a lower mana curve

[Rakavolver]

From Brian David-Marshall's Coverage of Japanese Nationals:

There was no way I could win my wager with Mike Flores. We had been joking about the likelihood of Shouta Yasooka playing Sensei's Divining Top and Counterbalance by turn two of round one of this weekend's tournament. Shouta is the frontrunner in this season's Player of the Year race and recently won Pro Tour Charleston as a member of Kajiharu80. He is also the most renowned control player in all of Japan. Island lovers anticipate his control creations - known as YasoControl decks - each season and he did not disappoint this weekend - other than me and MichaelJ. He was playing Counterbalance but only in the sideboard - specifically for the Heartbeat matchup.

There was no control to be found for Yasooka in Game 1 as he was behind from turn one of the game when his Rakdos opponent enchanted a land with Genju of the Spires. If you have any doubts about how good Dark Confident is you only needed to see how quickly Hidenori Katayama dispatched them - one with Shock and the other with Demonfire. I was unfamiliar with Hidenori before this round and the Japanese reporter sharing the table with me whispered what I though was, "He is a writing star in Japan."

It did not take me watching the match for very long to realize that what he actually said was, "He is a rising star in Japan."

In Game 2 Yasooka pitched Spell Snare to Disrupting Shoal a Genju on turn one. As a result he had no answer for Rakdos Guildmage or the Cruel Edict that took down his Phyrexian Ironfoot over the next few turns. The Rakdos Guildmage did the bulk of the work, eating up Yaso's life total in ragged four point bites. Eventually Yaso was able to play Meloku but the only way that was going to help was if he had another turn. With Hidenori Katayama holding on to a grip full of Char, Demonfire, and Volcanic Hammer it was obvious - at least from my vantage - that it would not.

Hidenori Katayama

The rising star was off to a 3-0 start for his Nationals weekend while Shouta fell back into the crowded 2-1 pack.

[wyatt290]

Thanks rakavolver i was just about to post this i really hope it does well and so everyone can see rakdos is a viable deck and we maybe able to get this deck some exposure.

[Fireburns]

Is it the deck list that i posted eariler, the all burn decklist? If so then i may have to do some deck changing and tweaking.

[TheVigilante]

Hey guys I've been reading this thread from practically start to finish and I would like to share my current rakdos build

welcome - Rakdos: Wrecking the Metagame

4 Augermage
4 Witch
4 Guildmage
4 Hellhole Rats
4 Ravenous Rats
2 Crypt Champion
2 Avatar of Discord

3 Cranial Extraction
4 Cry of Contrition
4 Demolish
4 Brain Pry
1 Jester's Cap
1 Night Dealings

3 Sulfurous Springs
1 Shizo
10 Swamp
8 Mountain
1Rix-Maadi

SB

1 Cranial Extraction
4 Pithing Needle
4 HoCruelty
2 Rain of Gore
2 Phyrexian Arena
2 Mindslicer

Please - flame, help, fix, critique, criticize, admire:D

[Burning Rakdos]

Is it the deck list that i posted eariler, the all burn decklist? If so then i may have to do some deck changing and tweaking.

U meant "Satanic Sligh" deck. The Satanic Sligh deck is still my #1 B/R Aggro deck.

[wyatt290]

Hey guys I've been reading this thread from practically start to finish and I would like to share my current rakdos build

welcome - Rakdos: Wrecking the Metagame

4 Augermage
4 Witch
4 Guildmage
4 Hellhole Rats
4 Ravenous Rats
2 Crypt Champion
2 Avatar of Discord

3 Cranial Extraction
4 Cry of Contrition
4 Demolish
4 Brain Pry
1 Jester's Cap
1 Night Dealings

3 Sulfurous Springs
1 Shizo
10 Swamp
8 Mountain
1Rix-Maadi

SB

1 Cranial Extraction
4 Pithing Needle
4 HoCruelty
2 Rain of Gore
2 Phyrexian Arena
2 Mindslicer

Please - flame, help, fix, critique, criticize, admire:D


Why cranial maindecked i guess if you know your metagame very well it might work but i really doubt there is a spot for it in this deck.

why dmeolish brain pry and night dealings theyre all bad cards for this deck.
i think rise//fall is a great card for this deck.

hit//run and volcanic hammer are great cards fort his deck youll need them for the aggro match ups for sure zoo i find is a big problem for this deck.

avatar as you probably have heard is very very bad is gives your opponent card advantage and usually just dies next turn to a putreft or a mortify but its your decsion.


wyatt290--

[TheVigilante]

ok, I'll drop the demolishes, avatars, and night dealings for 3 hit/run and 4 rise/fall

Night dealings is a fun card but I guess you're right

I personally like avatar, but now that I think of it, avatar really is just a big target that says "KILL ME" and gives my opponent card advantage.

[wyatt290]

Yeah thanks for taking my suggestions?

anywho what will this deck losein rotatoin the only thing in my build will be...

4 frostling
4 distress(sideboard)

[Rakavolver]

Check out this Rakdos build by Katayama that came in third at Japan Nationals, and won him a place on their National team:

4 Dark Confidant
4 Rakdos Guildmage

4 Shock
4 Cruel Edict
3 Genju of the Spires
4 Seal of Fire
4 Volcanic Hammer
4 Char
4 Flames of the Blood Hand
3 Demonfire

4 Blood Crypt
4 Sulfurous Springs
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
2 Snow-Covered Swamp
11 Snow-Covered Mountain

4 Cryoclasm
3 Pithing Needle
2 Martyr of Ashes
2 Bottled Cloister
1 Shard Phoenix
2 Pyroclasm
1 Quicksand

[Akujin]

I wonder why the snow covered lands and the one Quicksand, but really soild build i will try a similar build at my next FNM.

[Ilidan]

Shock instead this he could put in seal of fire it is better for RAKDOS

[TheSolderJenov]

Heres my rakdos build. Have fun ripping it apart if you like. I could use the suggestions. I have been sitting on this build for awhile now. If I can get this in order I know it will do just fine.

Creatures:

4 Rakdos Guild Mage
4 Avatar of Discord
4 Hellhole Rats
4 Gobhobbler Rats
4 Rakdos Augermage

Sorciers, ect:

4 Hit/Run
4 Rise/Fall
4 Last Gasp
4 Seal of Fire

Lands:

3 Ghost Quarters
4 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
8 Moutains
9 Swamps

[Rakavolver]

I wonder why the snow covered lands and the one Quicksand, but really soild build i will try a similar build at my next FNM.

LOL ... I think he had a hard time getting the basics before the tourney! ... LOL

In any event it throws your opponent off, no? He's thinking ... oh Christ Scrying Sheets! which ... he never sees! :-)

Yah, I'd say the lone Quicksand is random. That's screwy. Could it be 74 cards strong, and he needed filler? :-)

He has Shocks AND Seals of Fire, so discussion on which is better is moot in THIS build. Me, I'm a Seal of Fire guy, but whatever, this guild is finally getting its due, and I'm cool with that.

[TheSolderJenov]

I am a seal of fire person. One mana then sacrifice it when oyu want to hurt the player or a monster of your chosing. Sounds just fine for me and I have used it in all my rakdos decks thus far and it has done me more good then harm.

Edit: Rakavolver I moved my deck list here as you requested. ^_^

[Ilidan]

ok no idea were to post this so i post here

like this my Deck is not yet finnish so i need to ask ya what to put

CREATURES

2 pit dragon
4 golgari thug
4 gobhobble rats
1 lyzolda , the blood witch
4 Rakdos icksiptter
2 Avatar of discort
1 Rakdos the defiler
1 jagged poppet
1 rakdos guildmage
1cyrpt champion
2 scorched rusalka

OTHER

2 hit//run
4 seal of fire
1 Anthem of rakdos
4 wrecking ball or 1 wrecking ball and 3 seal of doom
2 Rakdos signet
2 volcanik hammer

LANDS

10 Swamp
12 mountain
2 Rix maadi , Dungeon place

and now i`m searching for lyzolda too expensive and rare at my place , anthem will be soon removed , i`ll remove Cyrpt champ , put some more jagged poppet for easyer hell band , so to put auger mages ?? or more guild mages ?? demon fire ??
my strategy is pit dragon and rrakdos defiler killz and when they die Golgari thug bring them back

[wyatt290]

(*back from PTQ 2-4 lol i bombed oh well it happens*)


Anyway back to constructed ive started testing with hellhole rats he usually gets in around 3 maybe even 5 damage for 4 which is nice ive found and Ive also been working on a post Kamiagwa block version of the deck it plays red martyr in place of frostling it works well against zoo and other aggro decks.

Hypnotic specter also i think might go in the deck post rotation just becuase hes a target contorl decks have to kill which is good that he will soak up removal and then you can actully drop your augermages and those goodies.

I think this deck needs a better late game creature for against control as much as i like to believe it is one of the better match-ups.

p.s yeay i got my 4th Textless Rakdos Guildmage
pp.s if anyone wants my updated decklist i can post it later just ask.

[River Boa]

The SolderJenov-
A few points about your deck, imho of course.
1 I hate the Avatar. Yik.
2 You don't have enough R or B mana. Do you need all 7 non coloured mana. I figure you don't have other duals but consider the karoo/ bounce land. Actually, just play it.
3 Lyzolda would be very good in here.
4 Burn would be better than last gasp here. Gives you the option of burning out your opponent.

[TheSolderJenov]

The SolderJenov-
A few points about your deck, imho of course.
1 I hate the Avatar. Yik.
2 You don't have enough R or B mana. Do you need all 7 non coloured mana. I figure you don't have other duals but consider the karoo/ bounce land. Actually, just play it.
3 Lyzolda would be very good in here.
4 Burn would be better than last gasp here. Gives you the option of burning out your opponent.

I got around to testing it. The avatars really aren't that great. I am making a new build utilizing Lyzolda and comboing it with Stalking Vengeance. That will give me some extra burnage right there. As for dual land I am guess you mean a land that gives like :b: :r: and if you are I have Rakdos Carnarium. I will also be using signets to produce more mana for early card usage. I'll have a list some time soon if not a start of one up some time soon.

[nipplesNteeth]

2 Condemn
4 Lightning Helix
2 Rakdos Augermage
3 Rakdos Guildmage
3 Drekavac
4 Savannah Lions
4 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4 Dark Confidant
3 Castigate
2 Faith's Fetters
3 Phyrexian Arena
3 Umezawa's Jitte


3 Caves of Koilos
1 Battlefield Forge
2 Sulfurous Springs
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Blood Crypt
4 Godless Shrine
1 Mountain
3 Swamp
1 Plains


SB: 2 Faith's Fetters
SB: 3 Magnivore
SB: 2 Condemn
SB: 3 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
SB: 2 Rakdos Augermage
SB: 2 Crypt Champion

This is my RWB deck.
Helix/Fetters/Jitte Keep me alive w/ all my duals and bob and arena.
Magnivore is in the sb b/c my meta is flooded w/ and I can't think of a better answer to 'vore decks than casting my own 'vore...

Any comments or concerns?
I would really likke help w/ this as I believe rwb is one of the best decks out there.


Edit - Pls don't tell me what I should put in without telling me what to take out.

[River Boa]

Rakdos Carnarium is exactly what I mean't.
I would do your deck something like this. You are too aggro for signets imho-

Creatures:

4 Rakdos Guild Mage
3 Lyzolda
4 Hellhole Rats
4 Gobhobbler Rats
4 Rakdos Augermage

Sorciers, ect:

4 Hit/Run
4 Rise/Fall
4 Char
4 Seal of Fire
4 Jitte

Lands:

4 Rakdos Carnarium
6 Moutains
11 Swamps

[TheSolderJenov]

That looks better then what I had but I still want to work Stalking Vengeance into it. As he ca combo well with Lyzolda. You have both on the field and you sac a monsters to do the two damage and then they do their power to the player as well. It's a double burn.

[Bastard_Sun]

but if you have enough mana to have both on the field and activate them, you should have won already

[Ilidan]

if ya can find put 4 blood crypt instead 4 Rakdos Carnarium it is way better for a rakdos deck

[wyatt290]

Rakdos Carnarium is exactly what I mean't.
I would do your deck something like this. You are too aggro for signets imho-

Creatures:

4 Rakdos Guild Mage
3 Lyzolda
4 Hellhole Rats
4 Gobhobbler Rats
4 Rakdos Augermage

Sorciers, ect:

4 Hit/Run
4 Rise/Fall
4 Char
4 Seal of Fire
4 Jitte

Lands:

4 Rakdos Carnarium
6 Moutains
11 Swamps

River Boa ive been playing this deck for about 3 months now i know all the good and bads of the deck and gobhobbler rats is by far the worst card ever i would take it out and put in ravenous rats.

Char isnt as good as hammer as weird as it sounds hammer will kill all same things watchwolf scab clan and all them little critters that go bump in the night with the exceptions of heiatch and burning tree which brings me to my next point!

NEKRATAAL

he is amazing he kills so much and youll thank him for being there if you were to play him cut 4 seal of fire you already have enough to deal with creatures.

I find playing this deck like an aggro deck will lose you games play it like a control deck never fill up the field too much and never let your opponent have card advantage. Use augermage every time you can his abilitie is better then getting in for 3 points of damage.

thanks
---wyatt290

[Ilidan]

ye i agree the char thing is lame

[LibraPoet]

Try this one for size, keeping a couple of things in mind. First, I am more of a budget player. Second, Aggro (White Weenie especially) is big in my local metagame.

The lands I will leave at your discretion. I play the R/B Snow lands for reasons that are apparent in my sideboard. I urge others to try this (Post-November) build against Aggro Metagames:

4 Rakdos Guildmage
4 Gobhobbler Rats
3 Lyzolda, Blood Witch
4 Scorched Rusalka
4 Martyr of Ashes (CS)

4 Shock
4 Volcanic Hammer (holding out for something better in TS?)
4 Hit/Run (amazing with Martyr, who lets you pick and choose what to leave on the board early to mid)
3 Phyrexian Arena (You know what happens when sligh type decks draw extra cards)
4 Last Gasp

Couple of points here:

Martyr owns aggro early. Period. Trust me, I know.
Arena is just easier to get for less money than Bob; Bob is, I admit, better in this undercosted deck
Gobhobblers seems terrible; against aggro, they are not; this deck can empty a hand quick against aggro, and just keep throwing regenerating rats at them.
Ironfoot saves the day against Paladin, and Manriki-Gusari until Nov. is for obvious reasons; have Jitte, play Jitte, believe me. Personally, I detest it.

Have fun, hope it helps someone beat that Paladin in White.

[wyatt290]

Try this one for size, keeping a couple of things in mind. First, I am more of a budget player. Second, Aggro (White Weenie especially) is big in my local metagame.

The lands I will leave at your discretion. I play the R/B Snow lands for reasons that are apparent in my sideboard. I urge others to try this (Post-October 28th) build against Aggro Metagames:

Martyr owns aggro early. Period. Trust me, I know.

yeah martyr is pretty insane in an aggro environment you gotta play it as a surprise though and lead on that you dont have it and force them to play as much as you can out of them.

im playing frostling but hes going out for the martyr 100%

I know your in favour of the Nob-Gobbler rats but Rav rats iss soo good vs contorl and makes a nice chump blocker vs. aggro.

and you definitly need rise//fall and i always suggest a slight splash of blue for the other side its a very good card returning a creature like lyz0lda and then bouncing their huge guy will work out b e a utifuly sometimes.


as for snowlands only run them if your playing Moron Mouth or Scrying Sheets.

---wyatt290

[LibraPoet]

Rise/Fall is good, but often sits dead in hand against aggro. It must be drawn and played just right in order to work. Gasp, with which I replaced the Rise/Fall (they are in the Board) goes the distance, though it comes out against white, where Rise/Fall goes in.

As for Snow Lands...they are for the Ironfoot, to untap it against White Weenie. Have to take care of the Paladin somehow. And the Hand. And the Crusader...do they print enough Pro Black stuff out there?

But I agree about Martyr. Hold em until your opponent overcommits the first time. Warning, though...hold them too long against Snakes and you're staring down Seshiro and wishing you had snuck Martyr in there one turn earlier, to keep that Monster off of the board. BUT, Martyr for just enough damage to kill everything BUT Seshiro...this sets up a Hit/Run for Six.

[Ilidan]

Try this one for size, keeping a couple of things in mind. First, I am more of a budget player. Second, Aggro (White Weenie especially) is big in my local metagame.

The lands I will leave at your discretion. I play the R/B Snow lands for reasons that are apparent in my sideboard. I urge others to try this (Post-November) build against Aggro Metagames:

4 Rakdos Guildmage
4 Gobhobbler Rats
3 Lyzolda, Blood Witch
4 Scorched Rusalka
4 Martyr of Ashes (CS)

4 Shock
4 Volcanic Hammer (holding out for something better in TS?)
4 Hit/Run (amazing with Martyr, who lets you pick and choose what to leave on the board early to mid)
3 Phyrexian Arena (You know what happens when sligh type decks draw extra cards)
4 Last Gasp

Couple of points here:

Martyr owns aggro early. Period. Trust me, I know.
Arena is just easier to get for less money than Bob; Bob is, I admit, better in this undercosted deck
Gobhobblers seems terrible; against aggro, they are not; this deck can empty a hand quick against aggro, and just keep throwing regenerating rats at them.
Ironfoot saves the day against Paladin, and Manriki-Gusari until Nov. is for obvious reasons; have Jitte, play Jitte, believe me. Personally, I detest it.

Have fun, hope it helps someone beat that Paladin in White.

a fried of mine play this kind of deck but instead shock he has seal of fire witch is better

[wyatt290]

But I agree about Martyr. Hold em until your opponent overcommits the first time. Warning, though...hold them too long against Snakes and you're staring down Seshiro and wishing you had snuck Martyr in there one turn earlier, to keep that Monster off of the board. BUT, Martyr for just enough damage to kill everything BUT Seshiro...this sets up a Hit/Run for Six.
I was having a lot of trouble with paladin untill i discovred that steamcore weird pwned! I love dealing 2 blue damages to any pro black creature and its synergy with the other side of rise//fall is very very nice.

give that ago if your a player slightly spalshing blue.

[LibraPoet]

I considered Seal of Fire. If I went with Hellbent, I would play it. But this deck wants cards in hand to feed that Martyr, especially game one. And shock, rather than keep that early creature in their hand like Seal, will catch it by surprise and rid them of it after it hits, too.

But if Seal suits your metagame or your strategy better, roll with it. Thought of running Seal and Shock and no hammer....couldn't quite pass up 3 for two, though.

But who knows...thanks for the pointer. Might have to test a little more with Seal...might help me stall out aggro, or slow down BoP and Elf...hmmm...thanks again.

[wyatt290]

uh oh mods might not like the 3x not editing your post.

there is a button under every post you make that says (edit) or (qoute) if you click edit you can go back and well edit your post as much as you want.

[LibraPoet]

My apologies regarding the multiple post. Hopefully I have managed to correct that, it was a network issue, it seems. Pages wouldn't load there for a while, or would load older versions...ISA firewalls and all that. Cache issue here, so I never saw the first post, and made a second one.

At any rate...Steamcore would be cool, except he A. requires off color splashing, and B. Only really qualifies for the deck against white. Look into Ironfoot from coldsnap. Add a few snow lands, and he can attack and block in the same round.

And he is colorless.

[wyatt290]

i love ironfoot he just seems a little mana intensive i find my mana is often tied up and whats left over goes towards the rakdos guildmage.

im gonna think about izzet guildmage hes very good and copying a rise//fall or a volcanic hammer is awesoem late game.

[Rakavolver]

If IG is a late-game card, please don't run more than 2. The way I'm looking at it, you don't WANT there to BE a late game. The decks that make a late game, Control, are usually Blue, and we're playing the two colors they MOST hate to see.

Ai yai yai, where is this thread going?? Did Ben Bleiweiss set us back with that HELLBENT (omg) article at magicthegathering.com? My god, the only two Hellbent cards I play are Demonfire, and Rakdos Pit Dragon, which I'd play without the Hellbent mechanic, frankly.

Then again, I'm completely lost on this deck. So many different ways to build it. Yah, Martyr of Ashes. I have to run those.

I'm basically an Aggro-Control player, so my version will reflect that, not Disco Rakdos (mostly black) or Burning Rakdos (mostly red). I'll probably lose the Augermages, or cut them to 2 in the board. Scorched Rusalka is not an issue for me vs Aggro, it's between Frostling and Frenzied Goblin, and I choose (have always chosen) Goblin because it's strong vs Aggro AND Control.

The whole Shock vs Seal of Fire debate ... I'll settle right now. Seal is better, because you can drop it turn one, while Shock, which always comes out after boarding v Control, is a control-y card. I like Shock's unexpectedness, I just think if you've got a Mountain turn 1 with nothing better to do, tapping it to make threat is better tempo than, ... not.

Of course the Japan deck uses four of both, so what do I know?

Wyatt, you seem to have more experience with deck than most others here, and definitely more than me, um, take over please. I have to play catch-up ... again.

[wyatt290]

Wyatt, you seem to have more experience with deck than most others here, and definitely more than me, um, take over please. I have to play catch-up ... again.

lol thanks rakavolver i just checked the post count for this thread and actully you have the most posts but i think ive been playing this longer for sure.

Your right on the martyr this deck needs it vs zoo and other pure aggro decks.

as for the guildmage and hellhole rats theyre junk I tested against them last night I'D never play them. With the rats he usually hits a land on turn which is not all that good for 4 mana and for the guildmage hes not as good as i thought i copied hammer a few times but it had little imapct on the game state.

Rakdos guildmage is much better.

But you need a catch up eh?
hmm

Solar flare: umm run run run for your life this deck has about a 75/25 win % against us At FNM its been my only loss the last 6 weeks in a row.

Snakes: Again its a hard deck to beat but hopefully the martyr will help if ti doesnt then im not sure what :S.

ZOO/GRuLL: Still a great match-up and the martyr will help vs. that too.

Erayo: I havent played much against it but i played 2 matches at a PTQ at completley raped it. the discard kinda ruins them.

i tihnk that should cover it your not dumb im sure you can figure out all the toher matches for yourself.

im out ttyl
--wyatt290

[Rakavolver]

Solar Flare - GREAT when it was a surprise deck, less great once know. I would test vs the varient that won Japan. Lost the Angels of Despair. Good, I never liked that card in Standard.

Snakes - OK, not the best to face.

Haakon Gifts - best of the Haakon decks? Dies on Oct 20th when Gifts goes away, though there will be other Haakon decks.

Top Sheets - Dies Oct 20th too, when Sensei's Divining Top goes away ... Monoblue with Counterbalance seems to be the best version. I'm up in the air on this deck, I'm sure it will survive in some form because ... people ... like ... Scrying Sheets. I would test vs this too.

Rakdos, the varients:

Mostly Red - came in 3rd at japan, the king for the time being. Aggro AND Control hate burn.

Disco (Mostly Black) Rakdos - Control really hates Discard, yet Aggro HOPES to face it! I wouldn't go here, unless you have a transformational sideboard plan, or something.

Aggro-Control - My play, not sure how to build it... again, not worried let's see how things shake out. I MIGHT be mostly red to begin, and pack lots of Control hate (discard) in the board. The toughest to build, the most fun to play.

You're welcome, and seeya. Oh, one last thing ...

Rakdos Hellbent - No. Please. Stop. Don't go there. Remember the Izzet Replicate deck? The Selesnya Convoke? The Gruul Bloodthirst? Me neither. ;-)

[Haemoglobin]

I really like the nearly Mono Red version. Excellent versus aggro and good game against control too. Probably has an awful Glare matchup but Glare isn't very popular at the moment. It's looks very consistent and probably fun and not that hard to play. As for Seal vs Shock, Seal of Fire is easily better for me, however I would usually play both. I don't mind losing surprise if you can use your mana mor efficiently. And they still have to deal with potential 2 damage on the board.

[Fireburns]

Well i guess here is a lot of craziness going on in this thread, but i am still playing the Frostling/CoC version of the deck. I still haven't made my mind up about adding more burn to the deck, but come Oct. 20th i won't have a choice really since Frostling will go "poof!".

The all burn version seems the fastest and can deal with almost anything.

[wyatt290]

Time for change im sure some of you arent having as much fun as usual with this deck.

heres my list as is now ....


4 rakdos guildmage
4 rakdos augermage
4 frostling
4 ravenous rats
3 lyzolda
3 nekrataal

4 rise//fall
4 volcanic hammer
4 hit//run
4 cry of contrition

and then land...nevermind with that.

heres my proposal on the changes...

-4 frostling
+4 martyr of sands(red)
-3 Nekrataal
+3 Steamcore wierd

and then up the blue mana base a bunch

and then maybe some thing like this.................

4 watery grave
4 blood crypt
2 steamvents
4 mountains
5 swamps
2 island

as ive noted before steacore weird deals blue damage to pro-red and black creatures and its sunergy with rise//fall is amazing.


scrying sheets would be good but then id have to cut blue becuase there would be not enough snow lands in the deck with the addition of moron mouth and scrying sheets this deck might be alot better but i doubt it the blue splash is just awesome.

anyways im out ttyl's

--wyatt290

[Eternal Wizard]

I have been testing a different take on R/B latley and having very good results
with it. This is not really a Rakdos deck but since this is the B/R thread I'll post it here.

Dumb Burn:

22 Land

4 Bob
4 Solifuge

4 SoF
4 Lava Spike
4 Glacial Ray
4 Volcanic Hammer
4 Flames
4 Hit/Run
2 Threaten
4 Genju


SB:
1 Demonfire
2 Threaten
4 CE
4 Blood Moon
4 Shattering Spree


Like the name implies it's a dumb little pile of burn; but it has been winning a lot (75%). I've even had to deal with Ivory Mask (but no CoP Red or Story Circle yet) and had little problem. It does loose to Gruul but that seem to be it's only really bad match-up.

So, what do you all think?

Ciao.

Yeah, I posted this build over three weeks ago and it's doing very well for me.

[wyatt290]

Ive seen a few burn versions they seem to perform well IMO.
can you provide some matches for us maybe?

[Nxdr]

Not to tangent completely off the burn theme, but here's a decklist I've been running for a while on MWS.


24 Land
4 Tresserhorn Sinks
4 Sulfurous Springs
16 Snow-Covered Swamp


20 Creatures
2 Haakon, Stromgald Scourge
2 Avatar of Discord
4 Stromgald Crusader
4 Rakdos Guildmage
4 Phyrexian Ironfoot
4 Rakdos Augermage

16 Spells
4 Phyrexian Arena
4 Rise/Fall
4 Last Gasp
3 Consume Spirit
1 Nihilistic Glee

It used to be full-on Hellbent themed, but as you'll notice, I've strayed a bit from that. I've also reduced the deck's reliance on Haakon; the deck was originally built around him and the Stromgald Crusaders. In retrospect, I'd run Bobs and Blood Crypts but until God drops a hundred bucks on my lap, I'll stick with what I can readily get.

Any thoughts? It still needs a lot of work.

[littlewoodg]

re: hellbentsux, Avatarsux etc...
here comes Flashback

[Nxdr]

Suggestions on how to get Haakon into the yard, then?

[Bastard_Sun]

Rix-Maadi for Haakon if you run him....

[Ilidan]

hellbent doesen`t sux .... 3th place in japan hellbent , second in macedonia hell bent what do you need more

[Rakavolver]

Macedonia Nats?? There's such a thing? How many participated?

Once again, here's the Japanese deck. Please point out the Hellbents cards in this list other than Demonfire. K, that's it for me for a while for me. I'm off to work on my Golgari Dredge and AzoriusRakdos 36-critter Yore-Tiller somethin'.

4 Dark Confidant
4 Rakdos Guildmage

4 Shock
4 Cruel Edict
3 Genju of the Spires
4 Seal of Fire
4 Volcanic Hammer
4 Char
4 Flames of the Blood Hand
3 Demonfire

4 Blood Crypt
4 Sulfurous Springs
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
2 Snow-Covered Swamp
11 Snow-Covered Mountain

4 Cryoclasm
3 Pithing Needle
2 Martyr of Ashes
2 Bottled Cloister
1 Shard Phoenix
2 Pyroclasm
1 Quicksand

[wyatt290]

Macedonia Nats?? There's such a thing? How many participated?



what lol?

where i cant find them im sure that there was like 8 people or something.
And i will never say hellbent is good im sure rakavolver will agree hellbent is soo bad its not worth it.

EDIT: according to wizards macadonian nats isnt untilseptember secdon im soo confused :S

[Rakavolver]

what lol?

where i cant find them im sure that there was like 8 people or something.
And i will never say hellbent is good im sure rakavolver will agree hellbent is soo bad its not worth it.

EDIT: according to wizards macadonian nats isnt untilseptember secdon im soo confused :S

Oh man, Wyatt, you are SO cruel! lol

Macedonia is not .... Prince Edward Island. :) Where, by the way, they didn't have a Champs (or was it Regionals?) this year, because like you say, you need 8 people to hold a tourney. :p

He may have confused Macedonia with Norway, or Albania Nats, Kosovo Nats, Serbia Nats or something. Greece Nats? Prolly not Iraq Nats or Iran Nats. Dubai Nats, maybe. Could be North Korea Nats ... in the Bizzaro Universe.

Well, like I said, Demonfire is a great hellbent card, and Rakdos Pit Dragon sometimes. Infernal Tutor MIGHT be a good hellbent If Time Spiral gives it help, cuz it needs it, but I'm pretty prejudiced against tutors in general unless their names are Mystical, Enlightened, or Demonic.

[wyatt290]

lol actully weve nevrer mised a champs but yeah theyre arent to to many people here.

we dont have regionals here we have iit a drives away becuase if combind the 2 provinces well have a much bigger turnout.

[littlewoodg]

to flesh in my note above - with the reappearance of the Madness and Flashback mechanics in Time Spiral, "hellbentsux" as a viable opinion might soon slide into obsolesence...

careful readers will note that this is about something thats coming (Sept 23+?), so saying Hellbentsux now is not actually the point, we're talking about the coming change in the environment, and the change hasn't occured...

but the writing on the wall is easy enough to read, those mechanics will obviously positively impact the CA drawbacks of the discarder spells...and in my opinion this development will change the shape of B-R Aggro...

its what was missing for hellbent to really work - (WotC knew this of course, the conspiracy theorist inside me sez they probably planned for it: the "players guide" in the Dissension fatpack discusses the synergies among the Hellbent, Madness, and Flashback mechanics...)

[VSU The_Hangedman]

Macedonia Nats?? There's such a thing? How many participated?

Once again, here's the Japanese deck. Please point out the Hellbents cards in this list other than Demonfire. K, that's it for me for a while for me. I'm off to work on my Golgari Dredge and AzoriusRakdos 36-critter Yore-Tiller somethin'.

4 Dark Confidant
4 Rakdos Guildmage

4 Shock
4 Cruel Edict
3 Genju of the Spires
4 Seal of Fire
4 Volcanic Hammer
4 Char
4 Flames of the Blood Hand
3 Demonfire

4 Blood Crypt
4 Sulfurous Springs
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
2 Snow-Covered Swamp
11 Snow-Covered Mountain

4 Cryoclasm
3 Pithing Needle
2 Martyr of Ashes
2 Bottled Cloister
1 Shard Phoenix
2 Pyroclasm
1 Quicksand

I've been playing Rakdos for a while now with great result, i've seen the top 8 decklist and made a few change to my decklist, adding Shock in the main deck and putting Demonfire in the SB.

2 Scorched Rusalka
4 Dark Confidant
4 Rakdos Guildmage
3 Rakdos Augermage
4 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
3 Giant Solifuge
20 creatures

4 Char
4 Volcanic Hammer
4 Shock
4 Seal of Fire
1 Rain of Gore
17 spells

4 Blood Crypt
2 Rakdos Carnarium
4 Sulfurous Spring
7 Mountain
6 Swamp
23 lands

1 Giant Solifuge
2 Demonfire
4 Deathmark
2 Rain of Gore
2 Threaten
4 Cryoclasm
15 Sideboard

I got some worries, Ivory Mask mainly, i can't find anything to go around it. And i'm working alot on my sideboard i'm changing it every week.

Notice that the deck is POST Kamigawa, me and some friends have been playing without kamigawa for a while to have a head start when the JITTE block dies.

Here's a few why:

Threaten: With 2 rusalka and 4 lyzolda, Threaten can become a game changing card, stealing a huge guy, attacking and sac, good combination. :D

Rain of Gore is to shut down Angel RWU, Hierarch, helix, and such. Life gain is not my friend. And 1 Main deck as proven good so far.

So any improvment from you guys? any way around ivory mask? THX! :)

[wyatt290]

YES the good pic that rakavolver has is back all hail thy display picture!!!

anyway to the point VSu the deck will win more often if played like a control deck rather then the aggro version you have.
this is at least how ive found over testing im not forcing anyone to do anything but i guarentee you will win 40% more of your games and having the slight splash of blue ive been pushing since the halifax list is worth your monies.

i was talking to psamms on the weekend the creatorr the blue splash version he said the deck is still pretty good but all coldsnap adds is the red martyr, and that the deck hammers solar flare after sideboard but i never really asked why ill just take his word for it.

i tihnk the phy-arena would make a big difference being able to apply a lot more pressure theyre gonna need to have a lot of answers.


anyway im out for now ttyl
-----wyatt290

[Rakavolver]

Ivory Mask[/CARD] mainly, i can't find anything to go around it.

Cranial Extraction; Naturalize, or Mystic Melting if you splash Green; Koala or Scour if you splash White; Sway of the Stars if you splash Blue; hope they don't draw their sideboard card in one of the next two games after you win game one.

[littlewoodg]

psamms, starcity rakdos thread 5/31: "also, one last thing. i didn't actually make the deck. i simply played it. ben goodman (ridiculoushat) gave it to me, and he got it from his other cymbrogi teammates. i just put in a good amount of work on it in testing, and then played the build i had come up with." last 2 things I'd seen about psamms was that he had added meloku to the build, and had t8ed with an Azorious build at Nats...

another name that is associated w/that list is Peebles-Mundy, who's credited in the Becketts that featured the list (which had evolved, dropping the frostlings, adding Squealing Devil...)

[wyatt290]

psamms, starcity rakdos thread 5/31: "also, one last thing. i didn't actually make the deck. i simply played it. ben goodman (ridiculoushat) gave it to me, and he got it from his other cymbrogi teammates. i just put in a good amount of work on it in testing, and then played the build i had come up with." last 2 things I'd seen about psamms was that he had added meloku to the build, and had t8ed with an Azorious build at Nats...


yeah i knew that i follow the starcitygames thread sometimes but it nowhere as near as produtive as here.

[littlewoodg]

@wyatt290: I've read you over there on starcity (bashing Avvy etc.)

there's definitely varying levels of quality among the threads...I end up on most of them, bringing the quality down wherever I go...ie: (rainbow riteknife rakdos)

19 creatures
4 Dread Slag
3 Avatar of Discord
4 Rakdos Augermage
4 Rakdos Guildmage
4 Wild Cantor

20 other
4 Blackmail
4 Rise/Fall
4 Hit/Run
4 Lightning Helix
4 Rakdos Riteknife

21 lands
4 Blood Crypt
4 Sulfurous Springs
3 Godless Shrine
3 Sacred Foundry
4 Pillars of the Paruns (hilarious w/the splits, Run and Rise w/out splash)
2 Swamp
1 Mountain

SB
WoG
Seal of Fire
Hand of cruelty
Hide/Seek

the flexibility of the paruns is amazing, and there's been no difficulty w/casting the colorless items, so I'm considering signets for more speed...accel and spot color fix courtesy of Cantor

[Fireburns]

re: hellbentsux, Avatarsux etc...
here comes Flashback

Avatar + Hellbent + Flashback = Rakdos Party :D

Well i can't wait until the rest of TS is out so i can see the rest of the Flashback cards. Dredge will make a comeback for sure, just as Loam is doing well in ext, it may start doing well in STD. And i believe that burn is the way to go for us right now until we see the rest of TS. We just need to figure out what creatures to run in the burn version and how many of each.

[littlewoodg]

Avatar + Hellbent + Flashback = Rakdos Party :D

Well i can't wait until the rest of TS is out so i can see the rest of the Flashback cards. Dredge will make a comeback for sure, just as Loam is doing well in ext, it may start doing well in STD. And i believe that burn is the way to go for us right now until we see the rest of TS. We just need to figure out what creatures to run in the burn version and how many of each.
yup - I'm psyched to see where this goes next. (having been caught up exclusively in working on 'bent list attempts - 10+! - since the DIS release)

I guess I'm the perfect stooge for WotC, I've been trying to crack the most absurd of the guilds' mechanics, and I'm all caught up in anticipation of the next product...

[wyatt290]

@wyatt290: I've read you over there on starcity (bashing Avvy etc.)



Ummm id like to see it im not mean on the forums man or well at least i try not to be if i bashed someone its probably becuase theyre running dreads slaggs and avatar of discord and even then im not mean i suggest as polite as possible not to play them becuase theyare bad in every way.

[littlewoodg]

Ummm id like to see it im not mean on the forums man or well at least i try not to be if i bashed someone its probably becuase theyre running dreads slaggs and avatar of discord and even then im not mean i suggest as polite as possible not to play them becuase theyare bad in every way.
You didn't bash anyone that I know of: Avvy = Avatar...and she isn't complaining (just biding her time, till the "Flashback" to hellbent "Madness" begins)

[wyatt290]

You didn't bash anyone that I know of: Avvy = Avatar...and she isn't complaining (just biding her time, till the "Flashback" to hellbent "Madness" begins)

I agree 100% with you :p

then i may actully give avvy the respect she deserves if there actully is a flashback or madness card that is worth running.

[littlewoodg]

I agree 100% with you :p

then i may actully give avvy the respect she deserves if there actully is a flashback or madness card that is worth running.
:p Me too, a 100%...

[wyatt290]

i never really noticed but did anyone else notice all the discussion that was created here in the last few days.

[Fireburns]

Yeah i have noticed it and it's because of the "New" Rakdos decks that are winning in the current Meta. And it doesn't suprise me in the least bit.

[johnny_truman]

I used to have 4 Watery Grave in my mana base. its really cool if you can cast either rise or fall. rise can give you card advantage. one example is bouncing their cretures in play and returning one of your creatures in the graveyard. I'm also wondering if counterspells will fit in the deck.