[DIS] BR Aggro-Control

[Rba]

Also half the people there dont play Rise//Fall and/or are bashing it. Why i dont like SCG.

But meh, i thought about riot spikes, kills bobs, rusaklas, but thats about it really. Whats the use? Id use it more as a kill spell than an agression spell. If there was something B/R that added Trample id think about it maybe (Though Riot Spikes with the Flaring Flame-Kin could be nice)

[jdelorie]

I like the spike as they kill Birds, bob, lyzoda, lions, rulka, etc

And they boost Auger, gobhobler, and I had been playing Okiba but dropped him and I have been thinking of placing him in the deck for the Spikes to keep up a little more hand disruption not sure though will ahve to play and test it a few times

[Rba]

If anyone checks my build a page or so ago, is there any possible way of adding a "Beefy" Creature? Its my style however itll be hell on Confidant. But my style is about the random one of that can be gamebreaking. Any card i can take out? :/

[Spork_Insanity]

Maybe instead of a beefy critter (which can suck with Bob), you could run 1-3 Hellfires. Hellfire is a good lategame rip, doesn't hurt too bad off a Bob, and is often an uncounterable win condition in the late game. Pretty good topdeck card, I think.

If a beefy critter is really needed...then maybe run a lone Ink-eyes. But I'd be nervous about hitting it with Bob...the deck can't really deal with that much life loss unless you have an active jitte out. Maybe Jagged Poppet, if he's not already in there. The Poppet is pretty beefy and can decimate an opponent's hand occasionally.

[fooligan]

5/5 demon is a try...
maybe dreckavac or whatever would solve your problems... you can discard land to him..
any way i think i might be jumping ship in terms of regionals... if i can even go...
this deck just doesnt seem to have the tools right now... too many expected bad matchups...
maybe ill pool my interests into wbr... but im thinking not...
ill keep on working on it though...

please some one here make me eat my words...

[Rakavolver]

Riot Spikes (http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/search_result_card.asp?id=13935), Hellfire (http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/search_result_card.asp?id=3901) ... Hellfire? That's a Legends card. Did they bring it back? Or did you mean Demonfire?

Rba, why do you think a beefy creature is needed? I mean you wouldn't ask the question unless testing was showing you needed one, right?

Well, I'm glad to hear you guys are doing well. What's your record v Control? 80/20 first game? How about 2nd?

I think the top deck to test against is Ghost Dad though. I bet that will be the most popular. I'm actually leaning toward playing BR Aggro. I dunno, has flaws but looks like fun.

I looked at a BRG LD deck that did well last weekend but I'm toast if I face Blood Moon with it. Anyway, Leviathon who built and played it reports Rakdos Guildmage is too good a card not to main 4 of.

[fooligan]

ive heard that now dad is the weakest of the b/w 3...
if anything it means youll likely be facing it less in the later rounds..

[Rakavolver]

If anyone checks my build a page or so ago, is there any possible way of adding a "Beefy" Creature? Its my style however itll be hell on Confidant. But my style is about the random one of that can be gamebreaking. Any card i can take out? :/

Horobi's Death Wail? It's weak I know.
Giant Solifuge? Situational.
Jade Statue? Block Pallys and HoH. eh, too expensive
Tomb of Urami, like fooligan implied? Very bizzare, but I've won games with him back in the day in Rats

I'm firming up my board 2-night. I have to go 4 Rain of Gore. The card is just stupid good. I'll lose the Edicts and Mindslicers though cuz I think they're overkill vs Control. That leaves 4 slots. I'm looking for something anti-aggro, something to replace Confidant after boarding. Or ...

What does Orzhov hate? What really ticks it off? It's nice we can get situational in our boards (eg, 4 Extractions for IdealDovescape) because the main is so tight.

[Rakavolver]

OK, I found the final piece of the puzzle: plagued rusalka. Please suggest a better card v Aggro for the board if you will.

I was wrong to say take out Bob vs Aggro. Take out Rise/Fall. 4 pts to Bob is 4 to many vs a fast deck. Here's my latest list:

4 Dark Confidant
4 Frenzied Goblin
4 Hand of Cruelty
3 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
4 Rakdos Augermage
4 Rakdos Guildmage

3 Char
4 Rise/Fall
4 Shock
4 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Blood Crypt
5 Mountain
1 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
4 Sulfurous Springs
6 Swamp

4 Cranial Extraction
3 Dark Banishing
4 Plagued Rusalka
4 Rain of Gore

Flail away.

.

[Rba]

I am running the Tomb of Urami, however post-pyroclasm is what kills me, everything dies to it, even with keeping critters in hand, its hard for me to stabalize post pyro, i tried Dreakvacs but usually i need my lands, im running tomb now but i think its too costly for its effect. Honestly i was thinking Rakdos Pit Dragon. 3 toughness, board changing once it comes down. Could die to last gasp though. Or even Avatar (has synergy with Crypt Champion.

But meh, it sucks though i may not even go to regionals unless we decide to drive 3 hours at 4 in the morning to Atlanta heh. *shrug*

[Rakavolver]

The way you get around Pyroclasm is the same way you get around Wrath: Don't overextend. :-) I'm sure you knew that, just trying to remind you of the obvious, becomes sometimes we all forget that. I do. Get back to basics. Again, I don't mean to patronize. I basically write for myself, to remind mySELf what is important. If anyone else likes my stuff, OK, fine. I am always more than grateful for feedback.

Pit Dragon is a fair card. Not extaordinary. My plan re Rusalka is just to minimize the costs to minimize self-inflicted Bob damage, and go to 27 critters from 23. Vs. Aggro, you can actually attack with Augermage, since they don't have Condemn and all.

I'm still waiting for someone with experience to let loose with the Orzhov boarding plan. Pretty sure they'll take out their discard stuff, right?

[Zardnaar]

Might be a bit off topic but I played my friends "burning bob" deck today. Fast and you can sorta play control with it.

Land 22
12 Mountains
4 Sulphurous Springs
4 Blood Crypt
2 Swamps

4 Dark Confidant
4 Giant Solifuge

4 Seal of Fire
4 Shock
4 Char
4 Flames of the Blood Hand
4 Lava Spike
4 Glacial Ray
4 Volcanic Hammer
2 Demonfire

SB?? Runs Rain of Gore though.

I'm running R/W Boros burn. His build shuts down Jitte better, mine has better SB options.
2 Demonfire

[Rakavolver]

Might be a bit off topic but I played my friends "burning bob" deck today. Fast and you can sorta play control with it.


Nope, not off-topic at all. There are many ways to skin a cat (ew), and many ways to build Rakdos decks. I like the Demonfire card, it has few enemies but expect to see them: Time Stop and Ivory Mask are the easy ones. What else?

Well, just like "sligh" or "Flores (Betrayers/Saviors) Red," your deck is Aggro-Control although most would call it (incorrectly) "Aggro." A minor beef I know but still a beef with me. I can see your friend doing well vs Orzhov. Ask your friend how "fast" his deck is. Surely not turn 3, and I suspect not turn 4 either. The only deck I know that can pop Turn 4 or better is Heartbeat, or a BAD Gruul build that packs Kiddie-ish Might of Oaks facing the goldfish, and the fastest possible deck (I guess) is Seething Song/Seething Song/Izzet Guildmage/Lava Spike/Desparate Ritual, which has as much chance of popping as Fact or Fiction ever being re-released.

[Zardnaar]

Turn 5 is probably the fastest the deck can win on. However its very consistent at winning around then. Ivory mask is why I run mine as a Boros deck for KoAL. Not sure what he would sideboard vs Ivory Mask- perhaps Viashino Sandstalker/more creatures and use burn to clear the way. We played a few games today vs each other and I won most of them at first and then helped him tweak the mana (20 land became 22) and we tried out Viashino Sandstalkers in the main. He also running a splash of green for naturlise from the board. He started winning a few more at that point. Either way the games were quick often came down to whoever cast Giant Solifuge 1st or how many Lightning Helixs I managed to cast. Both decks semed good in an unknown meta and have 2 issues.

1. Jitte (easily taken care of)
2. Ivory Mask

[Rba]

Heh, thats what im naming the deck, 10 Ways To Skin A Control Player. Or even the Rise//Fall of <Opponent>.

Testing with Pit Dragon hes won a game or so, double strike + jitte is insane. Hell i might even take out the Crypt Champ for the Dragon, its pretty good in the deck.

[Rakavolver]

I don't think the CryptChamp/KindleCarnage thing is strong, do you? I mean you say it's for Pally, but isn't Kindle'o'C. red damage? Maybe I'm missing something. In any event, I can see Dragon being better. Smooth move.

I'm glad Dragon is working out for you. What decks is it best against, how many do you run (2?)

[Rba]

As far as i know Kindles a global effect. It may be red damage however its global. Thats like Pyroclasm, it says Pyroclasm deals 2 Damage to each creature.

Actually i correct myself, during typing the above i was told it doesnt kill Pally because its red damage. Though that is odd, i wish i could get a judges ruling on that.

Well, holy hell, do i still leave Kindle in because i mean even though it may not kill Pally it is a "wrath" effect. Hell what do i use to kill Pally? :\

I took out a Shock for the Dragon and i think its really great so far. Just been a 1-of though. Maybe i should cut out something else make him a 2 of, hes been pretty good though. Meh, i dont even know if im going yet heh, will figure out over a draft and a bite to eat :\

[Rakavolver]

Well, holy hell, do i still leave Kindle in because i mean even though it may not kill Pally it is a "wrath" effect. Hell what do i use to kill Pally? :\

:\

Well if you don't wish to run Jade Statue (I won't), or fly over it with your Dragon, you can use your Jitte to kill his Jitte. It is a Jitte'd Pally that is dangerous. Or bring Extraction in game 3 if you won game 1 but lost game 2 (cuz isn't Pally usually a sideboard card?) and have at the card.

[Rba]

Common trend has been maindecking Pally around my area. But going up to a national spotlight do you think the trend will follow?

[Rakavolver]

I guess it depends which deck it's in. Rakdos gets little respect in general, I guess if they main it it's for Gruul & Zoo. Now, Zoo is just terrible, and Gruul is better but by how much? Jus' cause 2 decks make PT Hono Finals doesn't mean they didn't lucksack their way in there. So a week ago, many of us thought Gruul would be the most common in the first few rounds. Now it looks like it will be Orzhov. So again I ask the question ...

What is your sideboard plan re Orzhov? I'll probably apply my usual optimized statistical method called "Wing IT!"

I'm making my Shocks into Seals, and losing the boarded Extractions (re the Randy Buehler rule) for Pit Dragons and Demonfires. Wish me luck.

[fooligan]

remember i was saying w/b were going to be big... u/r are also a large portion and different compinations of u/g/w will also take up alot of space... well thats if your going from a educated guess... but we all know that education is by far the lesser term in the phrase when it comes to regionals...

[DarkCorvus]

i was kinda thinking along the lines of
MORE DISRUPTION


4 frenzied goblin
4 plagued rusalka
4 dark confidant
4 nezumi shortfang
4 hypnotic specter

4 avatar of discord
4 zozu
4 jagged poppet // rakdos augermage
4 umezawa's jitte
2 gravepact

4 blood crypt
4 sulfurous springs
5 mountains
9 swamps

sb
4 char
4 seal of fire
4 ignorant bliss (very useful)
3 rakdos pit dragon

[Rakavolver]

Got kicked out of the tourney today by Boros WWr running a Jitte'd Paladin en-Vec. So I have to change my board agin. Cruel Edict seems to be the best answer. Dark Banishing isn't all that great so it got the axe. Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

[Gloomdrifter]

Hello. I haven´t thought, that :b: :r: is playable. But today I had the luck to get 4 foil Rakdos Augermages for 20 €. And I was sooo happy that I build a deck around them :)

4 Plagued Rusalka

4 Gobhobbler Rats
4 Hand of Cruelty
3 Rakdos Guildmage

4 Rakdos Augermage

4 Giant Solifuge

4 Seal of Fire
4 Volcanic Hammer
3 Char

4 Rise/Fall

4 Blood Crypt
4 Sulfurous Springs
6 Mountain
8 Swamp

I didn´t read the posts before me, very carefully. So if I make mistakes that are discussed, please help me.
I tested the deck tody against :w: :b: promise/husk and some random other decks. It is a though matchup. Most of the time that player winns, who´s got the Jitte first. So I thought, adding Jitten in the SB would be a smart move :p

Sb:

4 Blood Moon
3 Deliruim Skeins
4 Flames of the Blood Hand
4 Umezawa´s Jitte

Some explanation of cardchoices:

Plagued Rusalka: Not sure at first, but it is a one drop and helps out against opposing confidants or whatever.

Gobhobbler Rats: Looked at first like a stupid draft card. But the fact that they can regenerate, won me a couple of games against husk.

Rakdos Guildmage: Some kind of midgame or lategame option. Nice body and cool abilitys.


Giant Solifuge: Nice in Gruul beats, why not here? Great against control, not so great against aggro.

11 Burn Spells: I think it is needed. Creature Removal and finisher.


So what you think?
One question: How the hell can I handle paladin en-vec??? Probably not or?

[Malpercio]

I'm trying a version that adds green for accel and cloak. This excludes Lyzolda but Terry along with hippy is very apealing (esp. if they come out turn 2, laughing at spell snare). Green creatures (and the cloak) also help a lot against paladin. It plays mostly like the BR version just a little more explosive. I'm going to play this in 11 hours at a national qualifiers in our country. If you have some input please give it now. Thanks in advance.

4 Birds of Paradise
4 Elfs of deep shadow
4 Confidant
4 Augermage
4 Hypie

4 Jitte
3 Moldervine cloak

4 Rise//Fall
4 Seal of Fire
4 Char

4 BR shock
4 GR shock
4 BG shock
2 BR pain
1 GR pain
4 BG pain
2 forest

SB

4 cranial
4 Hand of honour
4 thoughts of ruin
3 savage twister

[Rakavolver]

I lost the Lysoldas completely and added a land. Brought in 2 Plagueds from the board, and upped the Cruel Edicts to 4 and added a Pit Dragon.

Here's the problem. Lysolda isn't bad because she's one toughness or a Legend. She could have a toughness of 2 and she'd still be handled, or worst: ignored. No, she's bad because her costs are expensive in that the mana to make her sing is better spent on other things like Augermage and Guildmage, which are just terrific.

Bringing in at least 2 Rusalka and adding a land just helps Bob, and the extra land I found is a practical reguirement if you expect to run pit Dragons, which are sweet. Here's my latest:

4 Dark Confidant
4 Frenzied Goblin
4 Hand of Cruelty
2 Plagued Rusalka
4 Rakdos Augermage
4 Rakdos Guildmage

3 Char
4 Rise/Fall
4 Seal of Fire
4 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Blood Crypt
5 Mountain
1 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
4 Sulfurous Springs
6 Swamp
1 Tomb of Urami

4 Cruel Edict
2 Demonfire
2 Plagued Rusalka
4 Rain of Gore
3 Rakdos Pit Dragon

[Gloomdrifter]

@ rakavolver: Do you think the pit dragon is so usefull? I cutted now the solifuges because of the :r: :r: . Have you no colour problems with the dragon. And he is only 3/3. Dies very fast, or?
But I like your decklist. What are your results against :w: :b: ?

[Rakavolver]

Never played against BW with RB and yah Houston we may have a problem. They also use en-Vec.

Yes, I like Pit Dragon. I made a playing mistake with it v Gruul yesterday and went 1-1 rather than the 2-0 I should have. As far as Pit Dragon's toughness is concerned, I have to ask, is Kird Ape a good card? I think it is. Ok, it's cheaper but still, it doesn't pound for three, can't be pumped, can't fly. I should probably maindeck Dragon but Bob must be respected, but mainly I have no maindeck room.

I think Rakdos is better than Gruul but whether anything can knock Orzhov off its throne only time will tell.

[fooligan]

dont worry guys... i still like witch.
innevitability/pressing for removal/negating jitte/ wog recovery has still been helpful to me...
shes not great but she does alot of work and helps fill alot of cracks.

oh i did some more testing... b/c i didnt have enough $ to both go to regionals and finish wwr... i should have cashed those cheques sooner...
we seem to have alot more game against blue glare then i had imagined...
well anyways... im waiting on regionals results..

[Rba]

Regionals made me frown. There were a few Rakdos decks and we all got smashed soundly. I went 0-2 Scrub :(. First matchup vs Husk, didnt have more than 7 lands combined both games. Gruul was the exact opposite, i didnt see more than 7 spells in combined games. It was just horrible. But regionals made me realize im not a good constructed player. Im much much much more better at Limited. So im probobly quitting Constructed for Limited. Also got told by the best limited player in our region im almost as good as him :cool:

Husk pwned me
Gruul pwned me
My deck pwned me

what a day :\

[Gloomdrifter]

I´m definitly playing UWg control at regionals. This deck is more a fun-deck to me. But if you guys wanna play :b: :r: at regionals it could be usefull, if you add Needles main. Maybe instead of Jitte.

Whar are the major problems of this deck:

1. Opposing Jitte. Who gets it faster online should win.

2. Jitte equiped on Paladin. On it´s own the paladin is easy to play around, but with Jitte it is game.

3. Also difficult is glare. You have no options in B/R to remove enchantments. So Needle could help.

4. Circle of Protection (don´t matter which :D ). Same like glare.

I found that this deck run very solid. Most of the time I had no Manaproblems. And against other aggro decks it is also very solid. Guildmage and Augermage are soooo good.
Heartbeat should be no problem with Fall and sb: Delirium skeins.

Only some things I thought about....

[fooligan]

Rba, you just need to draw better, thats your biggest problem.
fix that and your on your way!

the practicality of that advice seems minimal... but you might find that you do have some infulence over random draws...
maybe a little more consistancy might help...
anyway im testing afew changes to the list...

ill post it in a bit..

[Rakavolver]

Whar are the major problems of this deck:

1. Opposing Jitte. Who gets it faster online should win.

2. Jitte equiped on Paladin. On it´s own the paladin is easy to play around, but with Jitte it is game.

3. Also difficult is glare. You have no options in B/R to remove enchantments. So Needle could help.

4. Circle of Protection (don´t matter which :D ). Same like glare.


1) Always with the Jitte wars. Good stuff.
2) Yes, on its own Pally is easy to play around. My answer to Jit-TAYed Pally is my own Jitte as Jitte-removal, and Cruel Edicts from the board. If I were less of a sissy-man I'd run Jade Statue, and I suppose I should ask what are the best Red artifact-removal cards in Standard?
3) Glare of Subdual a problem? Know anyone playing that? Well, the only answer I know of that Red and Black have to enchantments are: Cranial Extraction and ... win VERY fast. :-)
4) CoP's and Story Circles are a bit lame due to narrow windows of goodness, so I don't see them being much of a problem. But anything's possible.

and now for something new:

5) Plaxcaster Frogling. bit of a naughty card that, eh?

@fooligan - I am very happy Lysolda is working for you. I found it was terrible vs beats. I know, this deck starts out as Anti-Control, but all I faced was beats, cept SimicAggroControl, which was also beats moreso than Control.

[fooligan]

late enough if i get enough lands... my ability guys, very much including lyzolda become crazyful...
heres the list my friend wants me to run:

actualy he still has changes he wants to make... but theyre busting my balls in teh control matchups... hes not a fan of gasp

2INad-Head

// Lands
1 [SOK] Tomb of Urami
1 [CHK] Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 [CHK] Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
4 [9E] Sulfurous Springs
4 [DIS] Blood Crypt
7 [CHK] Swamp (2)
4 [UNH] Mountain

// Creatures
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
4 [SOK] Hand of Cruelty
4 [DIS] Rakdos Augermage
3 [DIS] Lyzold, the Blood Witch
2 [GP] Plagued Rusalka
4 [RAV] Frenzied Goblin
4 [DIS] Rakdos Guildmage

// Spells
2 [RAV] Last Gasp
4 [DIS] Seal of Fire
4 [RAV] Char
3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte

[Rakavolver]

Ack, I've been stupid. Both Extraction and Needle can handle the Jitte problem, along with your own Jittes, when facing Pally+Jitte in Orzhov or Boros.

If you think it's crazy going Needle naming Jitte when you're running them yourself, guess again. I've won many a game with that sneaky little dis-synergy.

Of the two, I'm thinking Pithing Needle is best. Much cheaper.

'Scuse me while I hit the garage to find out where my Magic Crowbar is hiding. It won't be easy finding where to fit Pith in but nothing's impossible.

[fooligan]

-2 gasp, +1 jitte, +1 rusalka...
he just keeps on wanting more out of me... hes complaining about the the 3 plagued count being too low and is asking for another lyzolda... im not sure if ill keep all the changes..

heres some of the sb hes been discussing:
3 skiens
3 gravepact
4 distress

other cards:
seal of doom
shadow of a doubt
needle
okiba
swamp
lots of burn
rain of gore

[Rakavolver]

Fooligan, Fiorello has a Rakdos list up today at Premium. NO Lysolda! (yikes!).

He does have Jagged Poppet and Avatar of DiscArd though (Double Yikes!).

Even though Lysolda was stinky for me at Regionals (met 4 Beats decks), I'm thinking of meeting you halfway, fooligan. It does seem to be the nuts vs Control, so I'm thinking about replacing the 4 Demonfires in my board with 3 Lysoldas. What do you think about that?

And oh, my Cruel Edicts are now 3 Pithing Needles. That's enough changes for my blood before testing. Swear to god, I could tune everything into White Weenie and around again to where I started, given enough time. Have to stop somewhere though.

[fooligan]

ha... the deck made a slight showing...
i think i may have spotted a version of my friends RBu deck in the vancouver t8... well who knows... it just resembles what i was able to deduce from his list and i know he used to live there...


... i dont care what Ean says im sticking with 3 lyzolda...

and now that im not outing anything... what do people think of a red-er heavier-ish izzet guildmage sporting build...?

i still think our card go like this
1: jin
2: bob
3: jitte
4: guildmage/lyzolda
5: hand

but these varry in use and instance but generaly i think thats an accurate depicion of the md hierarchy

[Hedgemo]

Ogre Marauder
Lyzolda
Augermage
Jagged Poppet
Mindslicer

O-Naginata

Profit!

[fooligan]

hey... after being such an advocate i totaly forgot about marauder...
but im not sure now adays... theres alot of cheap creatures these days.. in terms of cards and low costs...
and theirs got to be a reason other black aggro decks dont run them...

at least its another thing to think about

[Rakavolver]

... i dont care what Ean says im sticking with 3 lyzolda...



I'm boarding Lyzoldas, since the meta is proving to be Aggressive once again. Once people learn how good Control is (and it will only get better as the mata firms up, because their lists will have less questions and more tightness), I think Aggro will be on the run (at which point, Rakdos will have its window of opportunity to strike).

For now though, I find myself boarding Lyzolda out frequently. Then again, I run into very little control. So Lyzolda MAY be mained again, but the meta will have to shift, and that's not happening today.

"...not THIS day! ..."
... Aragorn, rallying the troops at the Gates of Mordor

Ummm, thanks Aragorn. I think.

I removed the Demonfires from my board for the Blood Biatches, partly because they seem to be a bit too kiddie-ish for my blood (yes, I'm growing up ... a bit ... not fast enough of course), and because they seem to have found a home in Izzet decks anyway, where they seem far more exploitable.

Basically, I want my maindeck to be as aggressive as possible, with anti-control elements in the board. Lysolda is very anti-control, while there are already many anti-control elements to the main that are also anti-aggro.

Anyone care to remark on how their testing vs Orzhov is going?

[kby]

seal of doom = amazing vs. U/r Vore....well atleast after i won a few w/ it.

[mad`arab]

i think lyzolda is def a main deck choice, 3 of...and you don't run bob, you run the split cards instead becuz they are really important.

[Rakavolver]

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. Bob is simply amazing, and Lysolda is amazing but only against control, hence my boarding not maining her. Against very fast aggro, you really can't aford to maindeck both, or you will lose the first game, and they are then in the enviable position of having to win only one of the next two.

Rakdos looks lame at the moment, and I think a big reason for that is people mistakenly think it's about Hellbent, which is terrible. The only Hellbent card I am running is Pit Dragon, and I'd run it without the Hellbent thing.

As the season progresses, the only thing we can be sure of is that the metagame will shift. AS it shifts toward Azorius, as I think it will, THEN will be the time for Rakdos to shine. That may be a 2 or 3 week window, ... maybe 1. All I'm doing here is try to come up with the tightest Rakdos build that I can sneak into my local some Friday night when it's least expected, and crush head with. Owl is also anti-control, but at least Rakdos has a chance vs Aggro as well.

How unfortunate American Regionals was on May 20th, the very first day Dissension Standard was legal. The Guildpact Standard spillover was obvious, which meant lots of Orzhov.

[Rba]

When ive played the deck, i found that i was dropping t3 Terry's to keep up with the pressure of Aggro decks. Or even a t3 Fall really messed the opponents. I played Lyzolda as the "5 Drop" of the deck so i could have the mana open to Sac. Even then by t5 the board should be yours. Lyzolda's a great sideboard card imo.

[mad`arab]

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. Bob is simply amazing, and Lysolda is amazing but only against control, hence my boarding not maining her. Against very fast aggro, you really can't aford to maindeck both, or you will lose the first game, and they are then in the enviable position of having to win only one of the next two.

Rakdos looks lame at the moment, and I think a big reason for that is people mistakenly think it's about Hellbent, which is terrible. The only Hellbent card I am running is Pit Dragon, and I'd run it without the Hellbent thing.

check out my buddy who came in 3rd with a rakdos aggro-control deck...that's more control than aggro:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/regionals06/halifax

NO bob...w/split cards and lyzolda...this deck is insanely good

the nekrataal/frostling were squeeling devil/hellrole rats in reg's testing too...frostling stuck, but the nekrataal is there for aggro meta, which our reg's was....hellhole rats are for control obv...and lately we've been testing hippie in that spot

[Hedgemo]

Isn't plagued rusulka much better than frostling?

The blue splash for only rise is interesting

[mad`arab]

Isn't plagued rusulka much better than frostling?

The blue splash for only rise is interesting

no, we found frostling to be the best choice...and the blue is there for rise, becuz rise is really good mid-late game...you rise one of their creatures back, a rats from your gy, then make them discard it when you play the rats...that's a pretty good trick...or you can use it to save one of your guys

[Rakavolver]

Thank you, mad'arab.

Phil's deck is below. Thanks. Well, I thought Rakdos would need a splash, even if it's the tiniest. Cool deck. Did you note the 4th place deck? Battle of Wits. Aye yai yai yai yai.

Halifax placed EIGHT people into Canadian Nationals? I'm jealous. New York/New Jersey only had four slots. You guys are so fortunate.

Phil Samms
3rd Place - Nova Scotia - Halifax

5 Swamp
4 Mountain
4 Blood Crypt
3 Watery Grave
3 Rakdos Carnarium
2 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Steam Vents

3 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
4 Frostling
3 Nekrataal
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Rakdos Augermage
4 Rakdos Guildmage

4 Rise // Fall
4 Hit // Run
4 Volcanic Hammer
4 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Last Gasp
4 Phyrexian Arena
3 Giant Solifuge
4 Blackmail

Well, sure it can't run Bob. Too many expensive spells ... the Split cards alone are pretty steep self damage. It also has my favorite piece of jank, Blackmail, in the board. Very nice. Good goin'.

It also runs 23 land, which I found out the hard way at Regionals is the proper number.

It should be fairly obvious Control decks are back in a big way, which opens the door to smash with Rakdos. Good luck everyone.

[Rakavolver]

...frostling stuck, but the nekrataal is there for aggro meta, which our reg's was....hellhole rats are for control obv...and lately we've been testing hippie in that spot

Hyppie? What about Nezumi Shortfang? Persecute even. Feh, OK, you want creatures.

[somethingawful]

Heres a little something I'm gonna toy w/ soon.

The Round Out The Tank
4X Avatar Of Discord
4x Crypt Champion
4x Rakdos Augermage
3x Lyzolda the Blood Witch
4x Drekavac
3x Plagued Rusulka

4x Bottled Cloister
3x Last Gasp
4x Desperate Ritual
4x Manriki-Gusari

4x Blood Crypt
7x Mountain
8x Swamp
4x Sulfurous Springs

SB
3x Rise/Fall
4x Rain of Gore
4x Ravenous Rats
4x Hit/Run

Cards I really wish were still t2 for this deck:
AEther Vial
Need For Speed



This isnt a final list, but i've been playing around with many many cards.
Cards worthy of mention
Golgari Thug
Mindslicer
Yukora, the Prisoner
Nezumi Shortfang
Dark Confidant
Zo-Zu the Punisher (can be turbo'd out too)
Seal of Fire
Seal of Doom
Orcish Artillery (another card that can be turbo'd out)
Dread Slag
Nihilistc Glee
Delerium Skiens
Jagged Poppet
Twinstrike (woulda made it, tried hard, but just didnt work out)*


*Twinstrike is something I really built as a core on the deck, I tried everything from tutors to extra draw to anything, but it just acts as a throw away card til turn 5, and even then you cant guarentee 5 mana on the board so it just doesnt work right in the deck. Having a 5 mana cost counter-acts itself. I dunno, I just couldnt get it to work right consistently enough in any build I pook together.


My 2 cents, look I even signed up to post it :)

[Crytuf]

:b:"start knockin' heads, boys, and don't stop 'til the ragamuffyn sings!":r:

ah rakdos
an impressive foe no doubt
8x swamp
8x mountain
4x rakdos carnarium
4x hellhole rats
4x wrecking ball
4x hit/run
2x rakdos guild mage
3x jagged poppet
2x Rakdos the defiler
2x brain pry
2x seal of fire
2x seal of doom
2x infernal tutor
2x cackling flames
2x lyzolda the blood witch
1x rain of gore
1x anthem of rakdos
1x rakdos riteknife
1x ratcatcher
1x stalking vengeance
1x demonfire
1x rakdos pit dragon
1x seizan perverter of truth
1x kindle the carnage
60 cards in all

i am one of those magic players that lives on a limited budget, and am looking for some feed back...
i also own 3 nehilistic glees', 1 wit's end, a stormscale anarch, another rakdos the defiler, 1 more rakdos riteknife, a blood crypt, a dreadslag, and another anthem of rakdos, i really am unsure what to put in... ne thoughts?
:br::br:

[Christen]

Building on a budget so no duals for this deck:

4 Scorched Rusalka
4 Gobhobbler Rats
4 Drekavac
4 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
4 Dark Confidant

4 Cry of Contrition
4 Rise // Fall [4]
3 Volcanic Hammer
3 Shock
4 Seal of Fire

10 Mountain
9 Swamp
1 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
2 Rakdos Carnarium

Sideboard
1 Shattering Spree
2 Shred Memory
3 Seal of Doom
3 Pyroclasm

How should I improved this and what are good sideboards??

[Crytuf]

Building on a budget so no duals for this deck:

4 Scorched Rusalka
4 Gobhobbler Rats
4 Drekavac
4 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
4 Dark Confidant

4 Cry of Contrition
4 Rise // Fall [4]
3 Volcanic Hammer
3 Shock
4 Seal of Fire

10 Mountain
9 Swamp
1 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
2 Rakdos Carnarium

Sideboard
1 Shattering Spree
2 Shred Memory
3 Seal of Doom
3 Pyroclasm

How should I improved this and what are good sideboards??
i can see where you are going with this, low cost fast draw, play and pursue with swing and sacrifice, thow in some burn, and you got yourself a party. you may want to look into a few lava spikes, maybe a couple crypt champions, just because they can dredge a few of the lower cost creatures from your graveyard, however it would aso add a card with a cost higher than three to your deck, this is a carefully balanced deck, alrighty, if your in the areas of rares id look at Abyssal Nocturnus (http://www.cardkingdom.com/card_viewer.php?sid=647375783&pid=119579) cause you have a few falls, this could potentially be a larger creature to serve as a formidable opponent, if your not lookeing at rares maybe some last gasps, delierium skeins and perhaps some douse in glooms... if your into hellbent, a few jagged poppets taste good, a 3/4 for :1::r::b: its perty nice, however it would disbalance the deck a little, then it would need a tad of compensation. hope ive been helpful.

[Christen]

I'm actually looking at replacing the Falls with Ravenous Rats and the Cries with Avatar of Discord. Should I?

And what's a good replacement for Dark Confidant? I don't have it yet >.<

[Crytuf]

hmm, the rats would be better than the falls in the sense that they are another creature to expend... they also follow the pattern in the deck which is good, however id kick out the four cry's for the rats, the haunt is awesome in synchro with a sac-deck, but i think that the rats would work better, and then i'd take out two of the falls for 2 of the avatar of dischords, its a big quick flying thing... and youd still have the falls just in case. however watch the rix maadi, it isnt a mountain or a swamp its :t::1: so it cannot be used with :br: i found that out the hard way >.<

so, in a nutshell
+4 ravenous rats
+2 avatar of dischord
-4 cry of contrition
-2 rise/fall

and the dark confidant, i have 2 but... lets see what we can find, ill get back to you...Howling Mine (http://www.cardkingdom.com/card_viewer.php?sid=647375783&pid=117811) Phyrexian Arena (http://www.cardkingdom.com/card_viewer.php?sid=647375783&pid=117881) thats all i could find in ninth... aaannnddd in ravinca theres: Moonlight Bargain (http://www.cardkingdom.com/card_viewer.php?sid=647375783&pid=118520) Walking Archive (http://www.cardkingdom.com/card_viewer.php?sid=647375783&pid=120294) and in kamigawa there is nothing...

try it out, see how it goes, and if it doesnt work, try something else,

FNM tonight! ima kick in my selesnya and see how she holds... i hear theres a mean orzhoft deck that shows, we'll see how it goes... wish me luck

[Rakavolver]

How's this?

SUPERTRAMP

4 Frenzied Goblin
2 Giant Solifuge
4 Hand of Cruelty
3 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
3 Plagued Rusalka
4 Rakdos Augermage
4 Rakdos Guildmage

3 Char
3 Phyrexian Arena
4 Rise/Fall
4 Seal of Fire

4 Blood Crypt
5 Mountain
1 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
4 Sulfurous Springs
6 Swamp
1 Tomb of Urami

3 Dark Confidant
2 Demonfire
2 Giant Solifuge
1 Pithing Needle
3 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard is easy. There are seven cards I take out vs Control, seven others vs Aggro, and with an open sideboard slot, I threw in a Pithing Needle. More Needles may find their way, and probably should. This was built for trying to be 50/50 anti-aggro anti-control, first game, in mind. Dayam this is a hard Guild to build for.

[Joker4515]

I really think that the true power of this deck lies in BRW, and not in just black and red. The white splash gives you access to castigate, and helix, and beyond that it is really all about how much white you wanna run. for instance

3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4 Frenzied Goblin
4 Dark COnfidant
4 Rakdos Augermage
3 Lyzolda, the Bloodwitch
4 Rakdos Guildmage

4 Lightning Helix
4 Rise/fall
4 Castigate
4 Seal of Fire

22 Land



you could cut the isamarus for plagued rusalka if you don't wanna worry with getting W on turn 1.

[Rakavolver]

I really think that the true power of this deck lies in BRW, and not in just black and red.

.....



I lot of us have been saying for a while Rakdos needs a splash. Not sure how far back you read, but here's a deck I posted that did Q and was mostly Rakdos, it splashed blue to fully abuse the Rise//Fall card, meaning Rise:

Phil Samms
3rd Place - Nova Scotia - Halifax

5 Swamp
4 Mountain
4 Blood Crypt
3 Watery Grave
3 Rakdos Carnarium
2 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Steam Vents

3 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
4 Frostling
3 Nekrataal
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Rakdos Augermage
4 Rakdos Guildmage

4 Rise // Fall
4 Hit // Run
4 Volcanic Hammer
4 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Last Gasp
4 Phyrexian Arena
3 Giant Solifuge
4 Blackmail

[mad`arab]

I lot of us have been saying for a while Rakdos needs a splash. Not sure how far back you read, but here's a deck I posted that did Q and was mostly Rakdos, it splashed blue to fully abuse the Rise//Fall card, meaning Rise:

to be fair, i posted the link for that decklist, since i knew about it...becuz it was my buddy and our group that used it.

and keep in mind, that version of rakdos is NOT AN AGGRO DECK.

if i were to play a rakdos aggro deck, then i think brw is definitely the way to go...i'm not saying that Joker4515's list is the one i'd personally run, but i would say he's going in the right direction.

[Zardnaar]

Heres my current abuse of Rakdos with a white splash. Need help with the sideboard and might tweak the main deck.


23 Lands
5 Mountains
4 Blood Crypts
4 Godless Shrines
4 Sulphuric Springs
4 Caves of Koilos
2 Plains

4 Scorched Rusalka
4 Plagued Rusalka

4 Ravenous Rats
4 Rakdos Guildmage

4 Shrieking Grotesque

3 Okiba Gang Shinobi

2 Ink Eyes

4 Jitte
4 Rise/Fall
4 Mortify

SB????
4 Hide/Seek
3 Rain of Gore
3 Nekrataal
2 Execute
2 Slay
1 Okiba Gang Shinobi

[DarkAngel1979]

I won my local FNM with this build. It was created with the cards I could get loaned to me at the last minute, but the maindeck was close to what I had tested on MWS. Unfortunatly I basically stuck random cards in the SB because I had absolutly no idea what to stick in it (not enough playtesting). The competition level is somewhat low at my store, so this is at your own risks.

Lands (23):
3x Blood Crypt
4x Sulfurous Springs
1x Shizo, Death's Storehouse
10x Swamps
5x Mountains

(I would have switched a mountain for Shinka, and a swamp for a 4th Blood Crypt, but couldn't find them.)

Creatures (25):
4x Plagued Rusalka
3x Scorched Rusalka
4x Dark Confidant
4x Hand of Cruelty
3x Rakdos Guildmage
4x Rakdos Augermage
3x Lyzolda, Blood Witch

Spells (12):
4x Seal of Fire
1x Jitte (I could only get one, but better one than none in this deck)
4x Rise // Fall
3x Char

SB: 1x Rain of Gore (wished it was 3x or 4x)
1x Lyzolda
1x Char
2x Mindslicer
10x Random crap

Round 1: Bye (heh)

Round 2: GWU Control
The deck seemed to be based on stemming attacks with Faith's Fetters, Hierarchs and Remands, chumping with Coiling Oracles then dropping Sky Swallowers FTW. Because of budget reasons, the guy was playing a lot of bounce lands instead of shock lands, which slowed down his development a lot and allowed me to smash face first game. I sided in my single Rain of Gore in exchange for a Hand, reasoning that I wanted to keep the average cc similar, and the BB casting cost could slow down my development worse than 1B or B/R B/R, plus the Hand wasn't as strong as the other 2cc creatures against aggro.

Game 2 his mana went better and he dropped Hierarch, then Sky Swallower. Even with having drawn my single Jitte, I ended up in a situation where I could either clear a path to attack OR keep enough life to survive the counterattack. I scooped.

Game 3, I curved out and dropped an early Rain of Gore. Low on life, it would have been risky for him to play Hierarch (I had enough power on the table to Char him FTW if he did). But he had 2 Research//Development in hand to chump block my creatures. I ended up attacking with Scorched, Plagued, Hand and Lyzolda against 3x 1/1 tokens with him at 4 life, and 3 mana open (including a single red). Stack damage, sac Lyzolda to herself, sac Scorched to itself, 3 damage to the head plus 1 in combat = GG. Whew.

2-0, games 2-1

Round 3: UG Graft?

Some sort of deck with counters, fatties and a few graft creatures.

Game 1: I just remember getting my Augermage Remanded then Leaked, then a Kodama of the North Tree coming down on the opposite side without me having anything to do about it, and being stuck with Rise//Fall in hand because he basically emptied his hand in record time. Lost.

Game 2: I curve out and win. Dark Confidant basically drew me land while I drew business spells on the Draw step. I did draw two Chars in a row, but that didn't stop me from winning this one.

Game 3: I resolved an Augermage on a somewhat paralized board. He had a Kodama on his side and I had Dark Confidant, some Rusalka's and a Hand. Augermage destroyed his hand while I drew more creatures to play. I had to sac the Confidant at some point because I was getting low on life, and used it to kill off his bird of paradise. Drew two more Confidants in a row, played one in order to prepare for an alpha strike, discarded the other by using Augermage. Last turn, draw a Guildmage, play it with enough mana to create a token, and alpha strike, then use a Seal of Fire on the board plus one in my hand to close the deal.

I think I could have attacked sooner, losing a creature each turn, but it would have been risky because I could have ended up with only 1/1s on the board against a non-targetable Kodama. Also, doing full attacks each turn would have left me open for a Kodama attack, whereas I had enough critters to kill it on my side if he attacked me. I'm not sure if I played well there, wish I had the info on exactly what happened each turn.

Changes:

Apart from fixing the mana base (get the missing rare lands and possibly mess around with the number of red and black sources), I would drop the Lyzolda's for Jitte's (putting the witches in the SB), get a fourth Guildmage (in exchange for what?), and possibly change the Scorched Rusalka for Frenzied Goblin. Plus, get myself an actual SB (3x or 4x Rain of Gore for sure, the rest I'm still looking at). I'm also unsure if Rise//Fall is worthy of maindeck, because it's usually not good against aggro... But then I didn't get much aggro played against me!

Other decks I saw that I didn't get matched up with were one Heartbeat, one GWB Control and my brother's RGB Land D deck. Also there were 3 other players but I don't know what they brought.

[somethingawful]

some things to note:



Plain R/B has no way of dealing with Paladin En-Vec, at all.
Only Hit/Run which isnt all that reliable. Jitte can, but you gotta hit them in order to drop em.

I havnt found one way to stop a Paladin w/ jitte equiped, its an instant scoop.

[Rakavolver]

Well hey congrats on your win. I also played Lysoldas with Bob and after that experience (and also after thinking of putting Lyzoldas in the board) I realized the problem wasn't Lyzolda, it was Bob. So I board Bob now and start with Arenas and that makes all the difference. Yah Frenzieds over Scorcheds, definitely. I ran Rain of Gore and liked it but find it a bit too situational to make my final list. Good luck with it though. Be sure to run pithing needles for Jitted Pallys and be grateful you didn't meet Boros. Congrats again.




Plain R/B has no way of dealing with Paladin En-Vec, at all.
Only Hit/Run which isnt all that reliable. Jitte can, but you gotta hit them in order to drop em.

I havnt found one way to stop a Paladin w/ jitte equiped, its an instant scoop.

Simply untrue.

[Hedgemo]

Hit, Cruel Edict, Jitte, Hideous Laughter, Quicksand...just off the top of my hand.

Don't say it has no answer, because it does. Just be creative.

[Christen]

Here's another budget build, Lyzolda probably being the most expensive in the deck.

-------------------------
4 Scorched Rusalka
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Drekavac
4 Gobhobbler Rats
4 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
2 Hellhole Rats

3 Shock
4 Seal of Fire
3 Volcanic Hammer
3 Rise // Fall
3 Hit // Run

10 Mountain
9 Swamp
1 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
2 Rakdos Carnarium

Sideboard

2 Shattering Spree
2 Shred Memory
2 Pyroclasm
3 Rain of Gore
3 Last Gasp
3 Wrecking Ball

-------------------------

Any room for improvement? Uhh, just no Kamigawa/Expensive cards.

[DarkAngel1979]

I don't have any Pithing Needles and even getting the 3x Jitte's I'm missing isn't going to happen tommorrow because of budget. I'm not even sure I'm going to try, since the set rotates out soon anyway. I might want the Needles for Extended, but I can wait until the rotation because then they will likely drop some.

Basically, the store I go to doesn't seem to be playing En-Vec at all. I think this week was the first time the store was actually doing FNM rather than doing their own unsanctionned tourney. Maybe later there will be an influx of better players, but for now I pretty much know all the guys there and I know nobody is playing it. So it would be a little premature for me to metagame for the high-level environment when most of the kids there used to skip the days when we were doing drafting tournaments because they couldn't afford them... ;)

And yes, I guess I'm beating up on newbies in a way (except I know at least 4 other good players in the store), but that's *MY* FLGS and I'd rather encourage it than go play at this *other* place where all the pros hang out in the city but that I find a vastly inferior store (lack of selection outside of MTG, overpriced singles and boosters, and the people who hang out there are boring).

[Rakavolver]

Well if nobody plays Orzhov or Boros where you play then I think you're in good stead re not having the Pithing Needles.

I'll give you a tip about how to get those missing Jittes though. As you probably know, you get one in the Betrayers Pre-Constructed Deck known as "Rat's Nest." Problem is, where to find them? The key is to find a little out-of-the-way store that pushes Yu-Gi-Oh over Magic. The place to find this store is any "Edge City," meaning along the broad circle or semi-circle around a city where the suburbs give way to farm country. They probably have cases of Betrayers Pre-Cons collecting dust in the back, and each case has 4 boxes of "Rat's Nest." That's where I got mine. $40, cheap.

Thanks for being honest re the lower quality of your store/opponents. However a win is a win, even if it only raises your rating by 2 points, that's 2 points higher than it was before the match. A dirty little secret is that MANY Pros in the earliest days of DCI Ratings got their high ratings in exactly the same way, indeed, they often sought out BAD stores and played their ringer decks to get on the Pro Tour high-rating gravy train.

[DROOGIE]

OI! DROOGIE HERE ,

Hullo fellas . Ive been playing around with alot of decks lately . Mainly control (b/w & beachouse) . Was originaly working with Boros Deck Wins before Guilpact was released . So i wanted to take a crack at an aggro deck again ! Its black / red ; but its more like Dark Boros . I want to improve on the main a little . But my primary purpose in posting the list is for some help with a sideboard .

Heres what i got so far :

4-ravenous rats
4-shreiking grotesque
3-hellhole rats (dont have any so Okiba Gang Shinobis fill this slot )
4-drekavac
4-skyknight legionare
3-palladin-en-vec

4-mortify
4-lightning helix
3-char
3-faiths fetters
3-umezawas jitte

4-godless shrine
4-sacred foundry
4-blood crypt
2-boros garison
2-orzhov basilica
2-swamp
2-plains
2-mountains

I went with the old Rat type base similar to the b/w aggro deck or the same similar concept as the rat deck that was scurrying around during pre ravnica block . Although i have no test playing involved to post nor back any real thoughts on its performance . All of my work is on paper so far .
I have done extensive casting cost to mana ratios to insure the proper
colors are produced to prevent from getting color screwed . The karoos /
bounce lands are to help from getting mana screwed . Of course to the best of construction abbility ; nothing can stop bad luck right !

I do have a couple sideboard ideas :

castigate : against control
hide/seek : against control
rise/fall : against control
hit/run : against aggro
giant solifuge : against aggro
night creep : against control
cruel edict : against aggro

These are just ideas nothing solid as of yet . Hopefully you guys can help
with this problem .

Thanks for your time !

DROOGIE

[somethingawful]

Hit, Cruel Edict, Jitte, Hideous Laughter, Quicksand...just off the top of my hand.

Don't say it has no answer, because it does. Just be creative.

Than howcome none of these people posting their builds post ANY of that stuff maindeck when a paladin w/ jitte is a huge force in standard.

I wouldn't rely on Hit/Cruel Edict.

[Crytuf]

yo, all i've been rollin around the idea of sliding in a few psychotic fury's into my rakdos deck, the multi's that i've got are 4x hellhole rats, 2x Lyzolda the blood witch, 2x guildmage, and 4x jagged poppets, however i cant figure out if it'd be worth it...

also, i attempted at building a dark confidant deck, i only have 2 and i splashed some blue to help speed it along as well, heres what i've got:
swamp x 8
mountain x 7
island x 5
disembowel x 2
sadistic augermage x 2(thinking about making it four)
yambushi's storm x 2 (gonna switch for pyroclasm(9th))
yambushi's flame x 2
glacial ray x 4
dark confidant x 2 (actually pulled em from boosters)
kami of the crescent moon x 1
thought picker witch x 2
vision skeins x 4
seal of doom x 2
gnat miser x 2
seal of fire x 2
terrarion x 4(actually accelerates things alot...)
smash x 2
scorched rusalka x 2
repeal x 1
last gasp x 2
nezumi bone-reader x 1

if the deck gets good enough i'll dredge out my lyzolda's from my actual rakdos deck, and drop 'em in here... however thats still a little ways away... i really want to rip out the blue and drop in some gobhobbler rats in place of the vision skeins, then replace the repeal with something... pluck out the glacial rays and drop in something... i really dont know where i'm going with this so, thoughts are appreciated...

[Rakavolver]

Than howcome none of these people posting their builds post ANY of that stuff maindeck when a paladin w/ jitte is a huge force in standard.



It was a big force at May 20 Regionals, and among the Holy Disciples of Michael J. Flores. Time will tell how it holds up through the season.

[somethingawful]

How wouldn't it hold up through the season? It hoses targetted control, period. What else would jitte want? The card and the decks that use it wont go anywhere.

[Rakavolver]

Define "targetted control," please. I think "Wrath of God" when I think of Control, Old-School me.

[somethingawful]

I'm talking about targetted removal*

[Crytuf]

... i have got to be one of the most rapid changing deck assembler i have ever met...
last night i pulled a marrow gnawer, its like... Whoa...!? so, i deassembled my rakdos deck, and rebuilt it in his image... i kicked in some gobhobbler rats, pulled out my poppets, and tweaked a few other minor things, looks like its an improvement... ima have to test it at fnm... should be pretty fun...

and somethingawful im pretty sure you mean like devouring light right?

[Rakavolver]

Devouring Light but probably Condemn. Hopefully by now we know NOT to attack with Augermage if you're playing vs a deck with White, thanks mostly to Condemn.

After long thought, I have decided to tweak my deck to include 3 Pithing Needles side (see: Supertramp in my Siggy), but the minus 7 plus 7 "puzzle" that you should be aware of in sideboarding vs Aggro or vs Control remains. Can you figure it out?

Both Jagged Poppet and Gobhobbler Rats have their charms, but god help me they get crowded out in my build for the reason there are simply other cards I'd rather have in my 75. Rakdos is not all that good now, but, as people realize how strong control is .... have you checked out the May 20 Reg'ls 2nd place Connecticut "Masterpiece" deck? ... Rakdos will have an opening ... maybe as little as one week or as many as three ... to strike like a coiled snake. I think this is a very important archetype to consider and have primed, locked and loaded, to strike with when the iron is hot. Don't stop working on it and ignore those who trash it ... they are thinking of bad Hellbent versions and/or are intending to play Control. They will be punished.

[Crytuf]

Seizan, Perverter of Truth (http://www.cardkingdom.com/card_viewer.php?sid=647375783&pid=111978)

alright, do i draw 2 cards then flop on my one regular draw? my friend thinks so, im not sure... help me out?

[Urko]

You draw two cards at the beginning of your upkeep and lose two life. You still draw a card in your draw phase also. Same for your opponents.

[Christen]

I've played against an Owling deck with Rakdos and I've got good results. I say Rakdos does well with control.

Anyway, I'm debating whether to keep my 2 Avatar of Discords or replace them with something better. -_`;;

[Rakavolver]

I've played against an Owling deck with Rakdos and I've got good results. I say Rakdos does well with control.

Anyway, I'm debating whether to keep my 2 Avatar of Discords or replace them with something better. -_`;;

The goodness of Avatar of DiscArd is directly proportional to the amount of Black in your deck. The more Black the better. If you really want to minimize its considerable drawback, consider Zombify. See my fun deck Wrath of Rix Maadi in my signature below for more ideas.

Owling decks think they got two considerable gifts for their deck for vs Aggro - Vision Skeins and Kindle the Carnage. How's that working out for them?

[speedyaxon]

The goodness of Avatar of DiscArd is directly proportional to the amount of Black in your deck. The more Black the better. If you really want to minimize its considerable drawback, consider Zombify. See my fun deck Wrath of Rix Maadi in my signature below for more ideas.
This might just be my misunderstanding, not having played a reanimator deck, but what are you doing with a simic sky swallower in there? You can't target it with zombify, right? And you don't have the mana to play it from your hand. It seems like a totally dead card to me.

[Khuras]

creatures don't have abilities in the graveyard. You may zombify a SSS.

[speedyaxon]

creatures don't have abilities in the graveyard. You may zombify a SSS.

ah, didn't know that. Thanks for the clarification. ;)

[Khuras]

no prob. Unless otherwise noted cards are only recognized as being cards of their respective type in the graveyard.

[Crytuf]

alrighty, thankyou for clarifying... i'm not really sure if that will, stay in my deck... i mean there are ways to empty them out of my hand, and sometimes it gives your opponent that last little nudge he or she needs... and its another demon to accompany rakdos on his rampages... but... i dont know, he costs five, hes a six five... and he is sorta anti hellbent, however in combination with that vishino anarchist, you can discard three cards for nine mana and the distribution of fire is relatively equivelent... idk

[Rakavolver]

Hellbent is terrible in standard. It might have been good in Block if Wizards had actually had a Block season rather than have bone-headedly chosen to have a Draft season this year instead. The only Hellbent cards I run are a single Demonfire for long slow control decks, in my board, and Rakdos Pit Dragon, which I would run even without the Hellbent ability. That's just gravy.

[Zardnaar]

We're having our regionals this weekend. Considering Rakdos as it looks like a control meta. The plan is to nuke their hand and get a Jitte to stick so a creature can survive wildfire/pyroclasm. Hopefully I can win on card advantage. No creature with a power/toughness higher than 2.

[Rakavolver]

Consider Rakdos, but where are you playing? Australia? I heard that would be Control. I've heard a lot of things in my life, that doersn't mean I always believe them. If Heezy St. and Heartbeat are on the outs as I suspect they are (but don't take my word for it) that may mean a slower more controllish meta, but pls don't think Orzhov and Boros won't show up, and those decks are bad for Rakdos IF the Jitted Pally comes down when you don't have answers. Pithing Needle main may be needed, say something like the following, and yes, remember to play smart and not overextend v Wrath and Pyroclasm if you expect them:

3 Dark Confidant
4 Frenzied Goblin
2 Giant Solifuge
4 Hand of Cruelty
3 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
4 Rakdos Augermage
4 Rakdos Guildmage

3 Char
1 Demonfire
3 Phyrexian Arena
3 Pithing Needle
4 Rise/Fall

4 Blood Crypt
5 Mountain
1 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
4 Sulfurous Springs
5 Swamp
1 Tomb of Urami

sb
2 Giant Solifuge
3 Plagued Rusalka
2 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Seal of Fire
4 Umezawa's Jitte

[Zardnaar]

Consider Rakdos, but where are you playing? Australia? I heard that would be Control. I've heard a lot of things in my life, that doersn't mean I always believe them. If Heezy St. and Heartbeat are on the outs as I suspect they are (but don't take my word for it) that may mean a slower more controllish meta, but pls don't think Orzhov and Boros won't show up, and those decks are bad for Rakdos IF the Jitted Pally comes down when you don't have answers. Pithing Needle main may be needed, say something like the following, and yes, remember to play smart and not overextend v Wrath and Pyroclasm if you expect them:

3 Dark Confidant
4 Frenzied Goblin
2 Giant Solifuge
4 Hand of Cruelty
3 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
4 Rakdos Augermage
4 Rakdos Guildmage

3 Char
1 Demonfire
3 Phyrexian Arena
3 Pithing Needle
4 Rise/Fall

4 Blood Crypt
5 Mountain
1 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
4 Sulfurous Springs
5 Swamp
1 Tomb of Urami

sb
2 Giant Solifuge
3 Plagued Rusalka
2 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Seal of Fire
4 Umezawa's Jitte

I'm in NZ. Testing a R/B/u splash for rise. Also running Dimir Guildmage instead of Rakdos Augarmage as I don't have any of the later and can help refill my hand once the opponent is in topdeck mode. Have you ever run Izzet Guildmage in any Rakdos build? Probably cut them from my buld as they're to hard to cast and being able to duplicate a Rise/Fall/Blackmail/Distress/whatever doest seem to happen often enough to make them worthwhile. U/R/g Tron with Skyswallower seems to be the deck to beat.

[Rakavolver]

If you can't trade for/buy/borrow/get Augermage, I wouldn't play Rakdos, especially in a Control-heavy field. It's first-striky-ness makes it good v Aggro, it stands still and discards v Control. I feel for you man if you can't get them, that's nasty but, that's Magic.

No I haven't tried any Guildmage but Rakdos Gm. That's a staple too. So I really can't advise ... too many possibilities. The blue for Rise is very nice, I guess you've read back to see the list that Q'd in Nova Scotia? Good luck in whatever you choose.

Here's how I'd build v Aggro, which uses the same cards you saw in my last post. It's the same cards as in the list in my Rakdos Supertramp link in my signature, which is arranged there for half control, half aggro, since I have no clue what I'll be facing. Needles are sided there, as I expect Pallys and maybe Jittes to be board cards.

4 Frenzied Goblin
4 Hand of Cruelty
3 Plagued Rusalka
4 Rakdos Augermage
4 Rakdos Guildmage
2 Rakdos Pit Dragon

3 Char
3 Phyrexian Arena
3 Pithing Needle
4 Seal of Fire
4 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Blood Crypt
5 Mountain
1 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
4 Sulfurous Springs
5 Swamp
1 Tomb of Urami

sb
3 Dark Confidant
1 Demonfire
4 Giant Solifuge
3 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
4 Rise/Fall

[Zardnaar]

I tend to build anti control maindeck and have an anti aggro SB. I run Jitte in the main as it helps vs aggro as they tend to tank out fast due to my discard. The problem I seem to have is they have no cards in hand and DC runs into spellsnare/electrolyze etc and they topdeck a faith fetters, wildfire, pyroclasm, etc and then you tend to lose- another reason to run Jitte I suppose. Thats why I like the Dimir Guildmage in there as is does very similar things to the Augarmage and with the blue splash for Rise you can refill yourt hand . In theory Dark Confidant does it for you. In reality he tends to die very quickly. In some ways the Dimir Guildmage is DC 5-8 and keeps them in topdeck mode as well. Heres my decklist which is probably scrubbish. Decklist is constanty changing but I haven't been to impressed with "standard" builds of Rakdos. Not to impressed with my build either. I could run duals instead of 2 karoos but you tend to inflict alot of damage on yourself. Can't get pithing needles.

Land 23

9 Swamps
4 Blood Crypt
4 Sulphuric Springs
2 Quicksand
2 Steam Vents
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Izzet Boilerworks

4 Plagued Rusalka
3 Frenzied Goblin

4 Dark Confidants
4 Rakdos Guildmage
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Dimir Guildmages
2 Rakdos Pit Dragon

4 Jitte
4 Rise/Fall
3 Blackmail
1 Demonfire

SB
3 Nekrataal
3 Slay
3 Shattering Spree
3 Flashfires?
3 Cranial Extractions

Tweaked the decklist. Only minor adjustments to be made now or replace the Dimir Guildmages with the Augarmages.

[fooligan]

ive been told that grave pact is the way to go for vec.

[Rakavolver]

I would like Grave Pact (http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/search_result_card.asp?id=12680), even thought it's BBB1 in a two-color deck, but for the fact it's an Enchantment, and it's vs Decks that run Kami of Ancient Law (good card) and possibly Terashi's Grasp (feh card).

The other thing is it seems quite narrow, and Pithing Needle solves many problems vs numerous decks.

I do like the idea though, and it goes in my third pile for possible inclusion in mid-season or something, or if I play in a room where the Deans of UNcreativity stubbornly refuse to let Orzhov go or worse actually think Flores knows (post-Invitational hangover ... or not) what he's talking about and play Boros.

__________________________________________________ _____
Quote of the Day! (Strangers with Candy (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0369994/) is coming ....)

"But, listen, let's review the rules. Here's how it works. The President makes decisions, he's the decider. The Press Secretary announces those decisions, and you people of the press type those decisions down. Make, announce, type. Put them through a spell check and go home. Get to know your family again. Make love to your wife. Write that novel you got kicking around in your head. You know, the one about the intrepid Washington reporter with the courage to stand up to the administration. You know, fiction."
..... Stephen Colbert

[fooligan]

arent kamis something that tend to leave the md game 2 against us?... or do techy guys no longer have a place in the sidebords of white decks..?

and ive been playing around wif wwr before flores and friends took it to new england...
it has strong game against some top decks and has decent game on the spread.

all this said we are not the match where utility removal is useful and a dumb white bear is something to be enthused about.
theres also another swamp in the sb.

and how are needles and pact a debate? they dont overlap at all!

[Rakavolver]

Because in game two you can play Needles and Jittes and that's 7-8 cards that have answers to their Jitte, since Pally is only a problem with Jitte attached.

Since you know so much about Boros WWr what do you think of Flores' build? I think its terrible.

[fooligan]

i have to say, switch a seal for a plains and its a hoot!
it takes some agressive mulling though...
if you want something a bit more consistant though id go for a modified eric meng version..
actualy the match for this deck vs mod flores boros ends up alot to be a matter of dice roll...and then theres the jitte war that also end up depending on the dice quite a bit... its quite draw dependant but jitte, knights and terry are what that match is all about, let alone the burn.

and pally is an issue all around, they have a crazy wall or a wicked clock to go along with that burn an life gain... he really just ****s me up... im just glad they dont run vigilence!

[Rakavolver]

if you want something a bit more consistant though id go for a modified eric meng version..


Who the heck is "eric meng" and what is his version?

[fooligan]

http://www.******************/php/news/article/11717.html
he has another one.... but thats the more useful one..

the deck is sorta fun... boros mainly got bad b/c people started thinking red guys were better as they figured out burn was better then anthem... dumb mooks...
some people are throwing vecs and shoals in the meng version...
but im just digging sb bathe in light... but thats just me...

why do you ask... looking to join the legion?>
oh great damn you flores! now im never sneak under the radar!

[Crytuf]

Hellbent is terrible in standard. It might have been good in Block if Wizards had actually had a Block season rather than have bone-headedly chosen to have a Draft season this year instead. The only Hellbent cards I run are a single Demonfire for long slow control decks, in my board, and Rakdos Pit Dragon, which I would run even without the Hellbent ability. That's just gravy.
agreed hellbent sux in most every situation... Except on the anthem of rakdos, and the demonfire, and yes the pit dragon... at least imo i have a fundemental deck sketched out below, it took second in a fnm last week, however i live in a very small state but still.... it ought to count for something...

i am glad, i managed to kill a paladin, all it took was a hit... can someone tell me if the judge ruled right on that?

/edit arrg... my browser is being dumb... that is not my current deck... i took out siezan and tossed in another anthem of rakdos, then pulled two of the gobhobbler rats and put in a rain of gore, and goryo's vengance

[Urko]

Yeah "Hit" causes target player to sacrifice a creature or artifact. The creature/artifact they sacrifice isn't targeted or dealt damage so "Protection from [insert colour here]" won't save it.

[Rakavolver]

I got the following in my e-mail as listed at this thread but for some reason it didn't show up here.

littlewoodg, if you wish me to delete this I will. Yeah, a bit o the ol flem did form in the back of my throat, but I suppose all ideas should be put forward before the weakest choices are crushed, one by one till a mere 75 cards remain ....




This is a new version of the dedicated hellbent I've been tying to
figure out, tested this weekend at the local shop...if you threw up a
little in the back of your mouth when you read "hellbent" skip the rest.

this went 2 for 3 against the simic aggro, after I sided in the
Jitte..3 for 3 against an azorious, I was too fast, 3 out of 4 against zoo, he
got mana screwed once, I outraced him once, then we traded burn suites,
and took one more each before we had to quit...

critters
4 Frenzied Goblin (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/)
4 Goblin Cohort (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/)
4 Glitterfang (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/)
4 Rakdos Guildmage (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/)
4 Gobhobbler Rats (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/)
3 Avatar of Discord (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/)
2 Rakdos Pit Dragon (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/)

others
4 Taste for Mayhem (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/)
4 Seal of Fire (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/)
4 Volcanic Hammer (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/)
3 Char (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/)

Land
4 Blood Crypt
4 Sulfurous Springs
8 Mountain
4 Swamp

sb ideas welcome
3 Hand of cruelty
4 cruel edict
4 Jitte
4 Last Gasp

the Glitterfang is tech for avatar: in hand discard fodder once I'm
'bent, and I can stay 'bent for combat: a cheap trick thats working so
far...
***************

[littlewoodg]

I got the following in my e-mail as listed at this thread but for some reason it didn't show up here.

littlewoodg, if you wish me to delete this I will. Yeah, a bit o the ol flem did form in the back of my throat, but I suppose all ideas should be put forward before the weakest choices are crushed, one by one till a mere 75 cards remain .... yup - go ahead and remove it, I posted it last night then immediately thought better of it...though it is working well in the testing as mentioned (!), its not strictly speaking aggro-control (if anywhere, probably belongs on a New Sligh thread)

Thanks for asking.

And BTW- I've learned a lot from you guys and your thread -its helped me develop another B/R aggro-control build thats more recognizably terrestrial in origin...good hunting to y'all

ps: one thing, my deck list (due to its provenance) contains links that will take people who knows where...

[Christen]

Ok, how do I improve from here?

4 Scorched Rusalka
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Rakdos Guildmage
3 Gobhobbler Rats
4 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
3 Rakdos Augermage
4 Seal of Fire
3 Shock
3 Rise // Fall
3 Hit // Run
3 Wrecking Ball
6 Mountain
5 Swamp
4 Sulfurous Springs (2 Swamp, 2 Mountain)
4 Blood Crypt (2 Swamp, 2 Mountain)
1 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
2 Rakdos Carnarium

Sideboard

2 Shattering Spree
2 Leyline of the Void
2 Shred Memory
2 Pyroclasm
3 Rain of Gore
3 Last Gasp
1 Wrecking Ball

No Kamigawa block cards please. I'm avoiding it as it nears its end for Standard.

[speedyaxon]

What do you guys think about the karoo land (carnarium) in this type of deck? I've never been a big fan of them because they slow your tempo down a tad and that could break the game with these decks. Any thoughts?

[fooligan]

was just doing afew sets against some regionals bw decks...
i did -shocker- (no really im actualy shocked and planning on investigating further) 5-4 with my most recent list against husk.... the first few were all down to the wire and ended up theirs but in the the last 3 or 4 they have been pretty solidly my matches... ive grown quite fearful of versions that can reliably and aptly abuse pontif

im currently doing rat-hand and although you do have to be very careful, matches are going my way...regular hand is just brutal but there is more of a subtlety in this one...
last gasps are quite a little complication...
im in the middle of it now but im 4-1...

a little while ago i tested against straight heezy... but its hard to remember as it was weeks ago and i was also testing wwr... but one thing that stuck out was how importent it was to go first... and how it became a real issue on how to use point removal...
the other version running ledgewalker is scarier though... the slumber versions still need testing...

i think my deck wants some more 3point removal....

// Lands
1 [CHK] Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 [CHK] Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
4 [9E] Sulfurous Springs
4 [DIS] Blood Crypt
9 [CHK] Swamp (2)
3 [UNH] Mountain

// Creatures
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
4 [SOK] Hand of Cruelty
4 [DIS] Rakdos Augermage
3 [DIS] Lyzold, the Blood Witch
3 [GP] Plagued Rusalka
4 [RAV] Frenzied Goblin
4 [DIS] Rakdos Guildmage

// Spells
2 [RAV] Last Gasp
4 [DIS] Seal of Fire
3 Umezawa's Jitte
4 [RAV] Char
------------------
// Lands
4 [9E] Caves of Koilos
4 [GP] Godless Shrine
1 [CHK] Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 [CHK] Eiganjo Castle
6 [CHK] Swamp (2)
7 [RAV] Plains (3)

// Creatures
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
4 [SOK] Hand of Honor
3 [GP] Ghost Council of Orzhova
3 [9E] Paladin en-Vec
4 [GP] Shrieking Grotesque
4 [9E] Ravenous Rats

// Spells
3 [GP] Cry of Contrition
4 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [RAV] Last Gasp
4 [GP] Mortify
-----------------------
// Lands
5 [CHK] Swamp (2)
1 [CHK] Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 [CHK] Eiganjo Castle
4 [RAV] Plains (3)
3 [GP] Orzhov Basilica
4 [GP] Godless Shrine
4 [9E] Caves of Koilos

// Creatures
4 [9E] Nantuko Husk
4 [GP] Ghost Council of Orzhova
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
3 [GP] Orzhov Pontiff
3 [CHK] Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4 [GP] Plagued Rusalka
4 [CHK] Kami of Ancient Law

// Spells
4 [GP] Mortify
4 [SOK] Promise of Bunrei
4 [GP] Castigate
--------------------
// Lands
4 [9E] Karplusan Forest
4 [GP] Stomping Ground
2 [GP] Skarrg, the Rage Pits
6 [RAV] Forest (1)
7 [UNH] Mountain

// Creatures
4 [GP] Burning-Tree Shaman
4 [GP] Scorched Rusalka
4 [9E] Kird Ape
4 [GP] Scab-Clan Mauler
3 [RAV] Frenzied Goblin
4 [GP] Giant Solifuge
4 [GP] Dryad Sophisticate

// Spells
4 [RAV] Char
3 [BOK] Flames of the Blood Hand
3 [RAV] Moldervine Cloak


[b]EDIT - whoops used my old deck list.
edited for relevancy

[Guile51]

@Speedyaxon: I'm not in love w Karoos, but I think 1 is the right number so far, maybe passing to 1 or 2 more...but at least 1 is good.

@Fooligan & Anybody else:
I've also been testing recently against Gruul, it was very difficult not to say never for me, but recently I added Volcanic Hammers and Umezawa Jitte to the MD and it's looking better against Gruul.

Against Zoo, Gruul, Sea Stompy, Husk, and other BW aggros, the issue would of course be Pyroclasm Post Side against some versions of Gruul, Too much helixes against nowadays new versions of Zoo (sometimes W confidants) and too much promises and shoal against Husk.

But we have the Weapons to deal with these decks, Seal of Fire, Hammer, and Char for the Removal, Hand (annoys Gruul, annoys BW, hurts Zoo), Augermage (wrecks Gruul, Zoo and many Aggros), Rakdos Guildmage (nice mid-game or end-game topdeck), Lyzolda (mid-end GameBreaker) for the Board gives you a good shot against those decks.

I'm actually telling this as Fooligan mentionnned the lack of 3 points Removal in the deck, really helping VS aggro those Hammers are, and not useless VS control or combo.

With Gasps in SB, additionnal Jitte (the 4th for me), and Needles (obv for Husk), you should be able to fight against Aggros in the format.

In fact I'll share my actual list here it is:
Rakdos (60)
Creatures 21
4 Dark Confidant
3 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
4 Hand of Cruelty
4 Rakdos Augermage
3 Rakdos Guildmage
3 Squealing Devil/ Scorched Rusalka/ Hypnotic Specter

Spells
3 Char
4 Rise/Fall
3 Volcanic Hammer
3 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Seal of Fire

Lands
4 Blood Crypt
2 Mountain
6 Swamp
4 Sulfurous Springs
1 Steam Vents
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Rakdos Carnarium
2 Watery Grave

Sideboard (15)
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Rain of Gore
2 Threaten
2 Blood Moon
3 Pithing Needle
3 Last Gasp
2 Mindslicer

I'm actually not sure of the Devils (I let them now because of their Polyvalence) which until now were Scorched Rusalka (Really good against control, particularly against Helix, Faith Fetters and post SB W Threaten), and I'm thinking of adding Hypnotic Specters or Pit Dragons to the MD... If you have any idea on this please write it down :)

For the SB:
-Needle: seems obv for me
-Threaten: A Gamebreaking Topdeck sometimes with a Rusalka or Lyzolda
-Rain of Gore: VS Firemane & BGW, maybe UGW, UW ...
-Mindslicer: VS Control
-Blood Moon: VS 3 color Decks
-Last Gasp: that or Seize the soul, Gasp is faster, and I hadn't tested Seize so far.

Here are the Rakdos on StarCity, they both had good results:
http://sales.******************/deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=17345
http://sales.******************/deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=17386

I'll end up with the 3 lands in my build that allow me to sometimes play a Broken Card: Rise. I'll not describe the card advantage it does and the tempo it gives you back or forth, I'll juste say it's Unsummon and Exhumation in the same Card...

[Christen]

I've played with my deck last night and it gave good results. I haven't tested it fully yet, but it went fairly well against BU Reanimator, BW Ghost, and WR Sear.

I'll see how it fares on FNM later this night.

[Rakavolver]

BU Reanimator?
WR Sear = Searing Meditation = NeoRift ?!

People play these decks?

Well, yes, the whole idea of Rakdos (IMO) is that we're anti-Control, just like Owl, but unlike Owl we have game vs Aggro as well.

[fooligan]

b/u reanimator took ontario regionals... its too bad no one will ever see it.
searing med is only scared off due to the existance of a couple great anti control decks and md mortify+castigate... the deck is pretty decent

owl has game against aggro now... people just fail too see the cards.... but if you look close you might realize this gem... i jost dont have the money or partience to play that deck... i just want to play consistanst aggro right now...

its true that we have access to anti control elements but i think its the other way around: were strong against most aggro and we have game in the control matchups too

heres what i know of my sb:
3 gravepact
4 distress
3/4 discard spells( skiens, mind rot, mindslicer, blackmail)
3/4 rain or gore?
2/3 seal of doom
1 swamp

likely
3 gravepact
4 distress
4 blackmail
3 seal of doom
1 swamp

play the gruul matchup with pacts and seals and youll see what im talking about...
seals also come in for the vore match and im pretty sure the heart beat match... if i can fit them.. 5 toughness walls suck..
vore and heart beat will be feeling the discard and vecs will be eating the pact
the swamp comes in with the pacts and in the vore match.

its still a work in progress though..

[Rba]

I ran kindle sideboard at regionals and it proved well vs my gruul matchup. BR needed the board sweeper and kindle proved it. For its huge drawback, it does possess the fortune to clearly change the game. I played 2 in my sideboard, if i were to have been more competitive with BR at regionals i would have gone 3 for sure.

[Hedgemo]

double post

[Hedgemo]

Don't knock neo-rift, I'd still rate it as a tier 1 deck, even though it's horribly under played. But yes, maindeck mortify/kami of ancient law really can be a problem for the deck.

I'm gonna toss my "rakdos" list up in here, since there really are no other threads for it that people seem to care about. It's a much more control oriented build than what I've seen floating around here, and may be closer to the masterpiece at it's core.

1 debtors knell
4 firemane angel
3 angel of despair <-- I really don't like these very much, but can't find anything better, I've been trying to figure out a way to replace them with SSS via some jank combination of pillar of the paruns and simic signets, but it's really risky. The only time I really really like them is against dovescape, then they are hilarity to the fourth power.


3 orzohv signet
1 rakdos signet
1 boros signet

4 hit/run
4 rise/fall
4 hide/seek
3 mortify
3 persecute
3 wrath of god
3 phyrexian arena

land pile is pretty easy to figure out, but a boseju is a must, with at least a 2nd in the sideboard. I've been running 2 pillar of the paruns lately and they haven't screwed me yet, while saving me lifepoints pretty regularly. The only time I've had an issue with the pillars is when trying to recur the firemanes.

As you can probably guess, this does very, very well against aggro. A very respectable pile of removal, plus random and possibly huge lifegains via seek(taking hit from rakdos players is hilarious).

Control is a bit rougher, but is still not a bad match. Turn 3 persecute has won me quite a few games, and boseju persecute at various points have won me quite a few more. Fall is your champion against control/counter heavy opponents, since most times they have to burn counter on it at the least. The fairly potent discard coupled with possible card advantage wins from phyrexian arena, and the threat of infinite angels late game usually lets me come out on top here.

Owl I was initially terrified of, since this deck can be kind of slow and plodding on a bad draw. But after testing it out a bit, the 8 maindeck artifact removers plus firemane angels winding up in my graveyard makes it not so bad. Game one can be dicey, but after boarding in 4 shining shoals and some boiling seas, your game 2 looks a ton better.

[fooligan]

rise//fall seems suboptimal to castigate to you...
and please put this in the b/w control thread or make yourself a new thread...this is really not the place
and wog should be a 4 of for sure
maybe try descendants, or kagemaro, demonfire, vampire, storm herd, one more knell,
pyroclasm/ night of souls betrayal is something ive been meaning to try
helix seems like it would really do some to compensate for clunky draws.

keep in mind that if guardian of the guildpact resolves magnivore squirms
and that ghost lit guys will ruin controls day, save from a void slime

[Guile51]

I think you should post your deck on a RBW Firemane Control Thread, I already encountered a deck like that on MWS and a friend of mine is playing a deck like this, so I think you could debate this on the appropriate Thread.

[Zardnaar]

I'm having alot of trouble vs Tron. Pyroclasm/Wildfire and Electrolyze just own you and even in topdeck mode they tend to smash you.

[fooligan]

havent tested it hard enough but from the lists ive seen it seems rough... many straight ur lists dont run pyro...

heres what im eyeing:
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power-Plant
4 Urza's Tower
4 Steam vents
3 Shivan Reef
2 Breeding Pool
1 Karplusan Forest
1 Yavimaya Coast

3 simic Sky Swallower

4 Electrolyze
3 Savage Twister
3 Pyroclasm
2 Tidings
4 Compulsive Research
3 Simic Signet
3 Izzet Signet
2 Demonfire
3 Spellsnare
3 Mana Leak
4 Remand

looks ****ing painful... like something i would play...

im going to look into more lists... i think the real issue is that they play alot of counters... i can deal with the removal b/c theyre light on clock, but its the disruption that hurts most...

there are just some matches you accept as bad... ill keep at it though...

[Zardnaar]

But Tron and B/W both seem to be bad matchups- ie the most popular deck types. U/R/g Tron is nasty but can have trouble vs Zoo and maybe Gruul.

[Rakavolver]

Don't knock neo-rift, I'd still rate it as a tier 1 deck, even though it's horribly under played. But yes, maindeck mortify/kami of ancient law really can be a problem for the deck.

Yes, I will knock NeoRift. I played it at Champs, a tight version that splashed Black for Shred Memory, Nightmare Void, Extraction. A varient of RW control, it had the HUGE drawback that all RW Control decks have always had .... it OWNS Aggro decks but LOSES horribly to all the other Control decks.

My point re NeoRift? It is the opposite of Owl, which beats Control but loses to Aggro. HAD I played vs nothing BUT WWr at Sates, I would have been undefeated with NeoRift. But alas, I met nothing but control. Oh well, stupid risk-taking me.

And Rakdos A-C, whatever its flaws, does the same as Owl but has better game vs Aggro.

[fooligan]

im having strong matches against b/w decks... the only one with a fairly even husk... and thats largely b/c: 1 im out of practice, 2 i allowed take backs on their side, 3 ive only actualy tested 9 sets (and games got much better as we went on... when we both got smarter.... the last 4 were mine, as with the first)
urg tron has trouble with zoo... odd...i thought twister fixed that...

[Rakavolver]

I think the bigger question is who the heck in their right mind plays Zoo?

[Rakavolver]

ses below.....

[Rakavolver]

It may be Block Contructed, and Team Block at that, but here is the deck that won Pro Tour Charlotte just now for Tomoharu Saito for his team, over Paulo Vitor in a quicksilver 3rd game after their teammates split their matches:

RBw (13 Red mana sources, 12 Black, 10 White, not including 2 Boros Signet)

4 Giant Solifuge
4 Skyknight Legionnaire
4 Rakdos Guildmage
4 Dark Confidant
4 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch

4 Demonfire
4 Lightning Helix
4 Hit/Run
3 Seal of Fire
2 Boros Signet

4 Mountain
5 Swamp
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Blood Crypt
4 Godless Shrine
2 Boros Garrison

1 Seal of Fire
4 Sunhome Enforcer
4 Char
3 Rise/Fall
1 Skeletal Vampire
2 Orzhov Pontiff

[sushiPasta]

Rakdos version i've been working with. The Avatars are very nice when you get em running on turn 2/3 and if your opponent cant remove it in turn or two they're dead alrdy. Cantor can be used to get some of the other 3cc earlier too AND it can be used with cry too, add ravenous rats and its -3 cards on turn 2 :)

4x Ravenous Rats
4x Wild Cantor
4x Avatar of Discord
3x Rakdos Augermage
3x Lyzolda, The Blood Witch
2x Dread Slag
3x Rakdos Guildmage

(23)

3x Wrecking Ball
4x Psychotic Fury
2x Infernal Tutor
3x Cry of Contrition
3x Hit//Run

(15)

4x Sulfurous Springs
8x Mountain
7x Swamp
1x Quicksand
1x Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1x Shinka, The Bloodsoaked Keep

(22)

[littlewoodg]

Rakdos version i've been working with. The Avatars are very nice when you get em running on turn 2/3 and if your opponent cant remove it in turn or two they're dead alrdy. Cantor can be used to get some of the other 3cc earlier too AND it can be used with cry too, add ravenous rats and its -3 cards on turn 2 :)

4x Ravenous Rats
4x Wild Cantor
4x Avatar of Discord
3x Rakdos Augermage
3x Lyzolda, The Blood Witch
2x Dread Slag
3x Rakdos Guildmage

(23)

3x Wrecking Ball
4x Psychotic Fury
2x Infernal Tutor
3x Cry of Contrition
3x Hit//Run

(15)

4x Sulfurous Springs
8x Mountain
7x Swamp
1x Quicksand
1x Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1x Shinka, The Bloodsoaked Keep

(22)this build looks like good fun - hows your match-ups?

[Christen]

I've tried my budget build on the last FNM. I got creamed by anything white with an Ivory Mask and/or CoP. I've no problems with other colors though. Maybe a bit of a problem with fast Grull decks with Jitte. (sadly, I can't seem to find enough non-Kamigawa to answer Kamigawa)

So, how do we answer to nasty enchantments without splashing any other color?

[Hedgemo]

Just splash white look a good player and use hide/seek. Also gives you lightning helix, which I hear is good.

[Rba]

Splits + Dark Confidant = Ye Gods That Hurt!

[Rakavolver]

Splits + Dark Confidant = Ye Gods That Hurt!

Yeah, no fooolin'. It's why I moved away from Bob to Phyrexian Arenas, which also allows me to play more powerful cards. But I still have Bobs, I just board them. :D

[Rba]

I was at 6, up against gruul, he has one mountian untapped, i flip over rise//fall, i lose 4, im at 2, tapped mountian, shock gg.


I was thinking about building B/R/W Dark Zoo for block, so far its not going good so i have no idea what im going to be playing for block & standard.

[Rakavolver]

I was thinking about building B/R/W Dark Zoo for block, so far its not going good so i have no idea what im going to be playing for block & standard.

Rba, did I miss something? Did Wizards change their minds and decide to run a Block season, or are they still going to make this summer's PTQ's Draft and not run one of the most beloved Contructed formats in history?

Well in any event, Standard or Block, the RBw deck Saito ran is very amusing, because after boarding v Orzhov, since he's mostly Red, he sided out his dorks and brought in heavy burn, turning the match into a simple footrace. Stupid simple, stupid funny, stupid good.

Demonfire for the win!

lol

[Rba]

No course not, but however i wanted to build a block deck for all intents and purposes of a block tournament coming up soon somewhere.

[fooligan]

there are always out of season block tournys and theres alot of online stuff ive been hearing about...

[Rakavolver]

OK, online Block. You mean at MWS? MODO?

[Rba]

Not sure but i think the local store has a block tournament coming. Also there might be a block side event at Nationals (Or maybe a block deck is used during nationals.).

Considering this isnt the block section, i know id be wrong in saying this, but how would B/R (Not including White, However if you wanna add W you could easily) do in block.

Eitherway, im ready for the summer Limited Tournaments, Limited is where i shine, might even see my name winning a PTQ ;)

[fooligan]

i was thinking about (for teams...) BW/r control, SSS w/black, and searing meditation w/blue...

im trying to get a deck that uses auras and aura abuse to work..(ie. fetters, leash, copy enchantment, simic guildmage...maybe 3 dreams)

but thats beside the point... sorry ive been half assed recently... ive still got an exam to go and ive been (for some reason, probly b/c of lack of discusision here) teaching the kids on mtgs how to play...

anyany thoughts on what to do about glare, gruul, white control x once jitte and hand are out...
when dose 10th come around... i want to know what and when vore will be losing stuffs...

im going to test and examine the tron match sometime after exams... when i can start actualy playing again...

[phantomass]

Speaking of T2 Rakdos deck, I will give Horobi a chance.
I guess he could have a great synergy with Seals, Frostling, the Rise part of the split card and maybe Darkblast. And, of course, Lyzolda.
Plus, it prevents opponent equipping Jitte, gaining life from Helix or Fetters, drawing from Repeal...
Awful vs. Glare though...

[littlewoodg]

gave up on the 'bent weenie project - my son beat me up w/his Capt. America (Angel Weirding) one too many times...so here's Rakdos Red (splash b) (ABDD: Always Be Doing Damage?)

critters
frenzied goblin x 4
scorched rusalka x 4
squealing devil x 4
rakdos guildmage x 4
rakdos augermage x 4
rakdos pit dragon x 4
other
shock x 4
volcanic hammer x 4
char x 4
umezawa's jitte x 4
land
blood crypt x 4
sulfurous springs x 4
swamp x 4
mountain x 8
sb
hand of cruelty x 4
cruel edict x 4
rain of gore x 3
cranial extraction x 4

[fooligan]

no bob? play hit...

[littlewoodg]

no bob? play hit... thanks for the post.

Bob rules but I haven't missed him yet, (although I've only tested against the Firemane...and was speedy enough)

Yup to hit // run Pull the Char for it? or...? (thats been my question, would you take apart that traditional burn suite for some new stuff?)

[fooligan]

you know i dont know...
chars strong... id take out shock... but then id put seal in...
thats a tough one...

you know... even with bob, hit/run is only like a .4 a turn pain increase over a 2cc spell...

[littlewoodg]

you know i dont know...
chars strong... id take out shock... but then id put seal in...
thats a tough one...

you know... even with bob, hit/run is only like a .4 a turn pain increase over a 2cc spell... seal v. shock is one i was puzzling over

if Bob, then would you massage the mana base a bit (add swamps...) maybe not necessary, he'd go in for Squealing I guess...

[fooligan]

ha... if quake is reprinted, bad news for us...
but incinerate is also reprinting./.
that news has inspired in me an erection!

hey i might get to play white control again...

[sushiPasta]

Lyzolda is by far, best rakdos critter to play, i think you should fit it in.

[Rba]

Lyzolda is by far, best rakdos critter to play, i think you should fit it in.

No, because shes technically a 5 drop, Augermage is a million times better than lyzolda.

[Rakavolver]

Augermage is better, but Lyzolda is sweet. The beyotch is truly terrible vs a very fast deck, so consider boarding it. I like to main it cuz Rakdos' strength is anti-control, but I am a sneaky man and one never knows if she bounces back into the board, again.

[DarkAngel1979]

I've got a 6-2 record with my Rakdos deck at the local FNM over 3 weeks, but I've been asking myself why I'm not simply playing Gruul or some B/W aggro deck, since they seem to do the same thing we do but better. The one thing I like about Rakdos is I completly destroy Heartbeat. The sole issue is I destroyed it so completly that the single guy who played it at FNM decided to build a new deck. ;) Rise//Fall, then Augermage, then Guildmage after he's forced to play his Heartbeat of Spring early so I won't have him discard it will do that (EOT I make lots of 2/1 Haste dorks!)

I guess the cards which are definitly great are Bob, Hit//Run (which single-handedly allowed me to defeat the GWB and GWU control decks I've come across), Augermage (which does double duty as anti-aggro and anti-combo) and the guildmage which is a good anti-control card. Lyzolda certainly is good but only late game as a finisher. Rise//Fall tends to be pretty neat as well, but Fall is dead against aggro. I just don't feel we have the raw power of, say, Gruul. Since I have the budget for only about one T2 deck, I hope we get good stuff comes Coldsnap and TimeSpiral. Since most of our cards are Ravnica block or core, we won't lose much from rotation except Hand which may hurt against En-Vec. But the B/W decks lose much more from the rotation than we do.

I am probably going to take Rakavolver's lead and put Bob's in the sideboard, since I've noticed I'm almost always siding in the Hit//Run's in my meta. I'd also like to put in some blue sources for Rise, but I'm a little worried because I already have 4 shock lands and 4 pain lands. I guess if I take out Bob it might be manageable.

[WarcraftMasta]

agreed hellbent sux in most every situation... Except on the anthem of rakdos, and the demonfire, and yes the pit dragon... at least imo i have a fundemental deck sketched out below, it took second in a fnm last week, however i live in a very small state but still.... it ought to count for something...

i am glad, i managed to kill a paladin, all it took was a hit... can someone tell me if the judge ruled right on that?

/edit arrg... my browser is being dumb... that is not my current deck... i took out siezan and tossed in another anthem of rakdos, then pulled two of the gobhobbler rats and put in a rain of gore, and goryo's vengance

Uhhhhhh huh.... YOU took second? I pretty sure that was me dude.
~Ty:ub: :wb:

[Christen]

That's it, I'm really need to splash white in my deck. I just can't get rid of that pesky Ivory Mask and CoP's.

Or, are there alternatives?

[fooligan]

killing them in the turns playing ****ing ivory mask gives you?
hitting mask with distress or terry also seems decent if its that big an issue...
mask seems lame in standard now anyway...
whos playing it?
mindslicer/okiba= better then mask//

[Christen]

Well, the problem would be when Ivory Mask successfully comes into play (topdecked). Most of the white players here board that.

Although I manage to Fall/Terry my opponent occassionally.

[fooligan]

why is is such an issue?...
and whos playing it? most white decks shouldnt be...

[sushiPasta]

Agree with fooligan, why would Ivory Mask be an issue ? Just roll em over with creatures like you would do anyways.
You can still use fall/hit for guildmage :) and lyzolda to burn his creatures/draw cards... Ivory Mask is not a problem for Rakdos!

[Rakavolver]

You can thank "the Masterpiece" for why people are playing Ivory Mask. There's a lot of Discard in the deck, and then there's the randoms who play burn. In fact, our Rakdos may move in that direction.

Good news: with the shift toward control (as predicted), this deck just got a lot more powerful. Time to tighten up our lists.

[littlewoodg]

this is where I've tightened to: devil out, bob in. still trying to figure out if I stay w/trad burn suite or...

critters
frenzied goblin x 4
scorched rusalka x 4
dark confidant x 4
rakdos guildmage x 4
rakdos augermage x 4
rakdos pit dragon x 4
other
shock x 4
volcanic hammer x 4
char x 4
umezawa's jitte x 4
land
blood crypt x 4
sulfurous springs x 4
swamp x 4
mountain x 8
sb
hand of cruelty x 4
cruel edict x 4
rain of gore x 4
cranial extraction x 3

[Rakavolver]

Why would anyone would play Scorched Rusalka when Plagued is the chief breadwinner in the Rusalka clan is beyond me, but OK, maybe you see something I don't.

Bob vs Arena

Ah the great debate. Not such a debate really if you look at the two extreme versions of Rakdos - Rakdos Aggro and Rakdos Control - If Aggro, Bob, if Control, Arena. Simple.

But of course with "Aggro-Control" we now have a problem. Bob becomes more painful, and Arena slows the deck down. But your ability to switch between the two (if you run both) gives you great chances after boarding, since the one affliction A-C decks have always had is a low first-game winning percentage. To get around that, most A-C (like GR), have always mained their most Aggressive cards, keeping the control-y stuff mainly in the board.

Should we? I think we should do the opposite. I want my Control cards up front because, let's be honest, we're not all that fast compared to G, GR, even BW, and people are going to play those decks, like it or not, I don't care how much control decks keep winning. People ... like ... aggression. What can I say? Can stop em, can't convince them, and dayam can't avoid them either. So a control-y anti-aggro strategy, maindeck, would be my call. Like this:

4 Frenzied Goblin
4 Hand of Cruelty
3 Plagued Rusalka
4 Rakdos Augermage
4 Rakdos Guildmage
2 Rakdos Pit Dragon

3 Char
3 Phyrexian Arena
3 Pithing Needle
4 Seal of Fire
4 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Blood Crypt
5 Mountain
1 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
4 Sulfurous Springs
5 Swamp
1 Tomb of Urami

sb
3 Dark Confidant
1 Demonfire
4 Giant Solifuge
3 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
4 Rise/Fall

That's my Supertramp deck, pre-boarded for vs Aggro. That's what I would take to a JSS, if I were young enough to play in one.

There is no way I feel comfortable playing Dark Confidant vs Aggression. They are trying to kill me fast. Why should I help them? Unless ... as stated ... I have lifegain. Unless I splash white, which is where I think this deck is going.

I also love Rain of Gore and Extraction btw, I just like the cards I have in there more. Cruel Edict is nice, but there are better choices. Volcanic Hammer is nice, but again, there are better choices. Seal of Fire is better than Shock. You have no Split cards main, understandable because of Bob. If you face a Control deck, the self damage doesn't matter, yet you can't be sure of facing one. But you have no split cards in your board either, which I can't understand.

[Zardnaar]

Scorched Rusalka Vs Plagued Rusalka. Scorched = better in burn based aggro decks (Gruul, Zoo, Boros, Neo Sligh), Plagued is better in aggro control. Theres several main problems Rakdos seems to have that a white splash won't take care of.

1. Paladin En Vec + Jitte. Not all of us have access to pithing needles and is an anti combo with your own Jittes.

2. Bob-vantage. Orzhov gets Bob going you lose.

3. orzhov in general. Lifegain, Orzhov pontiff,Orzhov Pontif and did I mention Orzhov Pontiff, shining shoal, pro black critters, jitte, bob, etc etc.

4. Tron. Specifically Electrolyze, Pyroclasm, Wildfire,. Pyroclasm kils 90% of your creatures for example except Rakdos pit Dragon.

Personally I'm more worried about B/W Husk and Tron than aggro. Sizzetron is really annoying even if they're in topdeck mode- Demonfire for the win, wildfire, pyroclasm, tidings even etc. Gruul/ most aggro decks are often easily beaten after boarding. Bring in more spot removal or Nekrataal etc.

[fooligan]

zandar...
maybe you shoud test afew of these matchus...
tron is hard and so are some builds of various b/w but for the most part we are plus in that area... wildtron sucks my balls... the deck is antisynergy all over, it just wins off the strength of afew cards..

and dont cite not having access to certain cards as an issue with a deck ("some people dont have access to needle") i dont know how of the many ways to adress that..
dont rain on our parade for no reason... thats just dumb... and in no way positive or helpful...

try my build and (if you can cut the mustard) it might help you reevaluate your oppinion on some matches, and the deck in its entirity...

[Rakavolver]

I hear you Zardnaar except:




2. Bob-vantage. Orzhov gets Bob going you lose.



Not necessarily. You have Seal of Fire and Plagued Rusalka, and discard. Use them on opponent's Bob.

Thinking Outside the Box

None of the following cards will make my deck, I'm just throwing them out there for possible consideration. All I did was, bored to beans, sat outside on my deck with my Ravnica list of cards. If someone would like to to the same for 9th, Champions, Betrayers, Saviors, Guildpact, and Dissension, that would be nice.

v Aggro

Reroute (http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/search_result_card.asp?id=13391) - Kinda narrow, imagine casting this when opponent tries to equip with Jitte, and you change the target to your own creature. Of course, he will re-equip to his own next turn (or that turn even), but you drew a card and possibly time walked.

EDIT: Rules brainfart. I think that works, except if you equip your own creature, it's "illegal." It's illegal, but does the original equip not apply? Here's the rule:

# G5.17b - An Equipment that's also a creature or an Equipment that loses the subtype "Equipment" can't equip a creature. An Equipment can't equip itself. An Equipment that equips an illegal or nonexistent permanent stops equipping that permanent, but remains in play. (This is a "state-based effect.") See Rule 420. [CompRules 2003/10/01]

Smash (http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/search_result_card.asp?id=13422) - Another "Anti-Jitte" thing, it was better when Mirrodin was legal. It replaces itself though. Maybe you'll draw another Smash to handle that 2nd Jitte they played when you destroyed their first. :eek:

Last Gasp

Darkblast

v Control

Nightmare Void (http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/search_result_card.asp?id=13364) - for a long slow game, control players positively hate this card.

Stoneshaker Shaman (http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/search_result_card.asp?id=13430) - Tech? Control will have to counter this, cast pyroclasm, or "mortrefy," etc., and we have many mana sinks such that we don't lose a single land, and they lose the lands they so desperately covet. Well, we're already anti-control so these are just pipe dreams, but, shrug.

[DarkAngel1979]

My FNM meta is composed of random aggro jank (which I beat, as any tuned deck would), one Gruul, one Heartbeat (my favorite matchup) and GW(B/U) decks with mana accel, Hierarchs, Fetters and big guys (Angel of Despair, Yosei, Simic Sky Swallower, Meloku, depending on the deck), with counter backup for the U decks. That later set of decks is surprisingly potent and they won't lose much with the rotation, so I expect to see them for a while. My brother might switch his GWU for Ghost Husk for a short time until it rotates out.

For this reason I'm taking Bob out and going with Hit//Run main. It's good removal, and against the big guy decks it's burn FTW. Not a lot of decks like to take 6+ to the face versus Rakdos. Not to mention the loss of tempo from getting a 6+cc card killed by a 3cc spell.

The prevalence of Hierarchs and Faith's fetters also mean Rain of Gore has a permanent spot on my SB.

[sushiPasta]

i don't like bob at all because i think Hit/Run is too good to pass, it's creature removal wich works on EnVecs and SSS just like any other critter + it deals dmg at the same time so it won't slow you down either. No need Smash or something like that, i think Jitte takes care of Jittes if needed :) I think Lyzolda deserves 2 or 3 slots in the main too unlike Pithing Needle :s

Against control we wont be controlling a thing unless we hav discarding, and that would take too much power away from the Aggro part, no? So i think only controlling we should be doing is the creature removal via jitte/burn/hit/creatures like Plagued Rusalka. 1 thing i've been puzzling about is Frenzied Goblin vs Festering Goblin ...

[fooligan]

festering might prove strong... but it seems sketchy to me in theory...
we have 1 toughness guys... they could go down to 2 for ones...
also frenzieds have the nice ability of making it easy to attack wif bob.

[Rakavolver]

Hit is a fine card. I'll sac a vitu-ghazi token if I were playing UWg. If I'm up vs a Pally and a HoH in play, I imagine he'll sac the critter that Jitte isn't on. Sorry, but I like Fall better than Hit. Don't play it if you don't want to, or play both.

Jitte alone is not enough to combat Jitte. Needles have multiple uses.

If you don't play Bob then pls play Arena. Don't depend on Lysolda alone for card drawing.

I'm a bit peeved I don't have more than 2 Giant Solifuge. I may have to bring in a 2nd Demonfire for actual play, then toss in a Stoneshaker Shaman for the notorius anti-social Rakdos wtf factor. We'll see. T-25 hrs till FNM.

[Rba]

Fall is just brilliant compared to hit. Fall hits (no pun intended) a turn earlier. Gets rid of a possible two threats. Hit only takes out 1 threat, however the burn is decent, but as mentioned they could just sac a token, or a saporling. I think Fall > Hit

Now maybe if you were to splash like a Stomping Grounds for Run then i could see it. Run is just a brilliant finisher
.

[littlewoodg]

Why would anyone would play Scorched Rusalka when Plagued is the chief breadwinner in the Rusalka clan is beyond me, but OK, maybe you see something I don't. I'm seeing exclusively control in my meta...so nothing to -1 w/plagued right now...


Bob vs Arena

Ah the great debate...Not such a debate really if you look at the two extreme versions of Rakdos - Rakdos Aggro and Rakdos Control - If Aggro, Bob, if Control, Arena. Simple. you hit it there, my build is really just bog-standard aggro...


I also love Rain of Gore and Extraction btw, I just like the cards I have in there more. Cruel Edict is nice, but there are better choices. Volcanic Hammer is nice, but again, there are better choices. Seal of Fire is better than Shock. You have no Split cards main, understandable because of Bob. If you face a Control deck, the self damage doesn't matter, yet you can't be sure of facing one. But you have no split cards in your board either, which I can't understand. great notes, great SB notes (and your Supertramp is one smart deck) I'm thinking hard about the split cards, but I've chosen damage over disruption, and I want to be able to either remove creatures or hit the dome w/the same spell...Hit does both! But its dicier than Char, no?
anyway, mine is for sure a dumber approach, more of a hammer than a scalpel: burn suite, plus beaters, hopefully curved for speed...neo sligh, Zardnaar called it...though sligh probably wouldn't run Bob, Squealing'd be in there...and Frostling too...and Solifuge instead of Pit Dragon, and...

come to think of it, I'm thinking about splash green, for the birds, ape, naturalize, hit//run...I know, more dumbness

anyway thanks mucho for the notes

[Zardnaar]

Well heres my stupid Rakdos burn/sligh.dec. Untested as of yet though. Needs tweaking and hopefully unlike a traditional sligh deck won't run out of gas to soon due to DC and Rakdo Guildmage.

13 Mountains
4 Blood Crypts
4 Sulphuric Springs
1 Swamp

4 Scorched Rusalka
4 Frostling
4 Frenzied Goblin

4 Rakdos Guildmage
4 Dark Confidant

2 Rakdos Pit Dragon

4 Seal of Fire
4 Volcanic Hammer
4 Char

4 Jitte

[Zardnaar]

zandar...
maybe you shoud test afew of these matchus...
tron is hard and so are some builds of various b/w but for the most part we are plus in that area... wildtron sucks my balls... the deck is antisynergy all over, it just wins off the strength of afew cards..

and dont cite not having access to certain cards as an issue with a deck ("some people dont have access to needle") i dont know how of the many ways to adress that..
dont rain on our parade for no reason... thats just dumb... and in no way positive or helpful...

try my build and (if you can cut the mustard) it might help you reevaluate your oppinion on some matches, and the deck in its entirity...

Don't underestimate the power of Tron espicially the U/R/g varients. I've had them in topdeck mode with Rakdos with the pit dragon and Augarmage in play and have still lost. I've had Jitte+ 4 counters on it and still lost. Any deck that can drop multiple SSS or SSS+ wildfire deserves respect. I've also seen turn 3 SSS and crazy things like that. The tron part is a bonus and often wins without the uber mana. I believe Tron is the biggest threat to Rakdos and fear it. I don't think I will play Rakdos at Nationals due to Tron varients.

[littlewoodg]

Well heres my stupid Rakdos burn/sligh.dec. Untested as of yet though. Needs tweaking and hopefully unlike a traditional sligh deck won't run out of gas to soon due to DC and Rakdo Guildmage.

13 Mountains
4 Blood Crypts
4 Sulphuric Springs
1 Swamp

4 Scorched Rusalka
4 Frostling
4 Frenzied Goblin

4 Rakdos Guildmage
4 Dark Confidant

2 Rakdos Pit Dragon

4 Seal of Fire
4 Volcanic Hammer
4 Char

4 Jitte this is where I've been heading too, though I'm thinking about seething song and multiples of demonfire and wondering about the color fix...more basic swamps? Some of the sligh scholars would say no accel (?!) so maybe Squealing Devil instead of El Bob, though I'm not sure about that...what I've been chewing on is creature #s, 25 + is the sligh minimum, plus the full traditional burn suite. Be nice to get by w/only 20 land, like the monos do.

anyway, lets get stupid and beat face/burn dome...the black-eyed peas single "lets get it started" was first released with the lyric "lets get retarded"...

[wyatt290]

has anyone liked the blue splash for rise someone in our regionals area came 3rd with the blue spalsh rise is amzing and has been when ive been playing against it if you wanna see his list just go to Halifax regionals or find it on the regionals page here on brainburst just control find phi samms and youll find the player.

its a weird list he runs i think 5 bounce lands which is odd but youll understand why when you see it.

[Zardnaar]

If you're not running Bb have people tried Ninjas? Ink Eyes and Okiba Gang Shinobi are interesting.

[Rakavolver]

Seething Song + Seething Song + Desperate Ritual + Izzet Guildmage + Lava Spike means third turn win, if you're lucky and 9 years old, right? How retarded that combo is. Every time somebody starts a thread about that combo my question isn't whether or not the average age of the posters there is the single digits ... I'm sure it is ... but rather ... how high (or low) in the singles.

I can't really knock Seething Song in other uses though, cuz in Mirrodin block somebody stole a game from me with that card, and it does have other uses other than the cheeseball improbable-to-achieve combo I mentioned. Good luck with it ... I reject no idea no matter how crazy it seems at first because experience has shown me that cards previously thought as BAD may very well be good later on if just one genius finds a combination with say some new card that escapes everyone else. Except Warp World. I can't see that cheese ever being good in Standard. Shrug.

Well, thanks for the compliments, but please understand I have worked virtually non-stop on both Rakdos and Azorius since the Dissension spoiler leaked, mostly at the expense of the other guilds. I've just started to explore Simic, for example. That guild has SO many possibilities it is positively mind boggling.

Notes: If you do splash a third color, green, blue, or white, go away from Bob and toward Arena, i.e., Control-ish or Control-Aggro. This is why Zoo is doing badly. On paper it's pure pure power, but it's terrible because it's 3-color AGGRO. All 3-color decks should lean toward control, because even though the guildlands do a lot to eliminate color-screw, they don't completely eliminate it. Don't fall into the Zoo trap. Take about 30 test draws minimum and play 24-30 goldfish games first with any new build you make, and what I'm saying should become readily apparent. It will also help you fix your mana base.

EDIT: yes, that RAKDOS/Blue deck that Q'd in Halifax is very cool, and if one of you (I have no time) can adjust Saito's RAKDOS/Boros Rav Block deck in Seat C that beat Paulo in the Finals at PT Charlotte to Standard, that would be cool. I would think at a minimum you'd want Lightning Helix and Mortify, and Kami of AL in the board, maybe. Have no time to explore that either. Good luck.

[littlewoodg]

Well, thanks for the compliments, but please understand I have worked virtually non-stop on both Rakdos and Azorius since the Dissension spoiler leaked, mostly at the expense of the other guilds. I've just started to explore Simic, for example. That guild has SO many possibilities it is positively mind boggling. All the work shows in your posts. Funny, the other guilds seem somehow more do-able, not as unwieldy/counter-intuitive...


Notes: If you do splash a third color, green, blue, or white, go away from Bob and toward Arena, i.e., Control-ish or Control-Aggro. This is why Zoo is doing badly. On paper it's pure pure power, but it's terrible because it's 3-color AGGRO. All 3-color decks should lean toward control, because even though the guildlands do a lot to eliminate color-screw, they don't completely eliminate it. Don't fall into the Zoo trap. Take about 30 test draws minimum and play 24-30 goldfish games first with any new build you make, and what I'm saying should become readily apparent. It will also help you fix your mana base. this is whats slowing down my 3 color math project, the Zoo problem: weenie aggro is supposed to be fast which means no color issues at all: fastest is sligh, mono-whatever, next slower is 2 color heezy style, slowest is add a 3rd color and get beat by your own mana base..the Nakjima 3 color aggro looked smarter about the color math (on paper, though he did top 4) because he's built for mid-game fatties, and then there's his LD...
once again thanks for the notes...

[fooligan]

one of our best cards is augermage (one reason not to splash) and the deck is really hyper consistant that being one of its higher points (annother reason not to splash...)
i can see a splash in some situations but you dont want to **** around with the decks composition...

[littlewoodg]

one of our best cards is augermage (one reason not to splash) and the deck is really hyper consistant that being one of its higher points (annother reason not to splash...)
i can see a splash in some situations but you dont want to **** around with the decks composition...
absolutely...the Auger is one of the chief reasons I'm probably going to abandon the 3 color plan...and he's kinda what makes Rakdos, you have to run him, but he's such a funny beast - the 3 power first strike is aggro, the discard effect is control...

I just want to build a sligh-style Rakdos that tops out at 4, and beats face/burns dome before they have their mana or combo's set up...too much to ask? Guess so.

[MicDeener]

Ivew found just putting in some watery graves and izzet dimir aquaducts to help alot as a third color just for rise. Ive won many games using rise because if you draw fall late game its useless but rise is very helpful.

[littlewoodg]

testing this one this weekend:
critters
4 frenzied goblin
4 scorched rusalka
4 frostling
4 rakdos guildmage
4 dark confidant
2 lyzolda the blood witch
3 rakdos augermage
2 rakdos pit dragon
other
4 char
4 Umezawa's jitte
4 seal of fire
land
4 blood crypt
4 sulfurous springs
7 mountain
4 swamp
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse

SB
4 hit // run
3 Rain of gore
4 hand of cruelty
4 sowing salt

[fooligan]

i top out at 3... in terms of actual cost...
is dragon really doing it? i mean.. it seems weak to me...

if you want to play sligh... you could start at my list and decrease the cost...

[littlewoodg]

i top out at 3... in terms of actual cost...
is dragon really doing it? i mean.. it seems weak to me...

if you want to play sligh... you could start at my list and decrease the cost... thanks for the note, I like your list, its probably where I'll end up going (after I give up on my red-heavy bias). One question I had about your build (and most of the B/Rs I've seen that run 25+ critters), how does the heavier-in-the-2ccs curve play out? The 1s seem so critical to tempo against control and combo...

I guess I'm asking because I'm trying to unstick my thinking from the 10+ 1cc thing, and the extra 2s are tempting, I want to sneak in another 2cc...

Dragon's actually been pretty good, I think partly because of the sligh-y setting: they've had to deal w/the weenie horde first. He demands an answer, (opponents find him scary...go figure) and they tend to run out of answers.

Another 4cc I considered was the solifuge...

[pha7matt]

check my rakdos build and tell me what u guys think.

-22 land

4 sulfurous springs
4 blood crypt
1 rix maadi
7 swamp
6 mountain

-20 creatures

4 Lyzolda
3 augermage
4 guildmage
4 ravenous rats
4 scorched rusalka
1 avatar of discord

-18 other spells

4 hit//run (anti jitte and anti big dragons that come solo, or sss)
4 rise//fall (self explanatory, great card)
4 seal of fire
3 volcanic hammer (chars preferred but i dont have them at the moment)
3 phyrexian arena (i know i need bob but for right now this is doing good)


Did pretty well at fnm last night..great deck especially against control.
opinions and suggestions welcome

[Rakavolver]

I don't understand 4 Lyzolda + 3 Augermage, I'd think you'd want to reverse that.

Well with 8 split cards, running Bob would be suicidal. Arena is working fine, then great. How retarded is it though that the 2 best card-drawing cards in Standard are black, not blue? This game ios too funny sometimes.

Rakdos pit Dragon is basically an anti-aggro strategy. I run it because it flies. I'd run it if it had no hellbent.

[Arcvanthelant]

Lands
Blood crypt 4
Over grown tomb 4
Rix Maadi, dungeon palace 2
Mountain 4
Swamp 7
Forest 1

Sub Total 22

Creature
Avator of discord 4
Crypt champion 4
Dread slag 2
Drekavac 4 4
Lyzolda, the blood witch 4
Squealing devil 4


Other
Plague Boiler 4
Brain pry 4
Demonfire 4
Infernal tutor 4

I liked the old rock decks, and the deck mirrors that. quick bet down some cotrol. i haven't got a side deck yet.

[Rakavolver]

Have any of you tried Tomb of Uramai?

I know, I know .... Self-a-Geddon! But I have entensive experience with it, and you'd be surprised how well it works. Think of it as a card that looks terrible but plays well, meaning the exact opposite of the following card:

I refuse to comment on any deck with Avatar of DiscArd unless it's mostly black, or completely black like that Wrath of Rix Maadi deck in my signature.

[fooligan]

i used to play it but cut it b/c i was told it was costing me too much in the way of life...

[Rakavolver]

Sigh, understood. I guess I had better luck with it then than you, fooligan.

[fooligan]

no i was usualy fine... i just succumbed to peer pressure...
ha!
i like my deck!
im getting reamed by that ssstron list!

[Rakavolver]

There are two obvious answers to your Tron problem: Sowing Salt and Thoughts of Ruin, but good luck fitting them in. My Magic crowbars are all gone done broke.

[fooligan]

i figured bm was a better solution... though none og those trumps easy countermagic....
i suppose you could always do it after a pyro/twister...
the list im testing against is like our nightmare anyway...

[Rakavolver]

// Lands
1 [CHK] Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 [CHK] Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
4 [9E] Sulfurous Springs
4 [DIS] Blood Crypt
9 [CHK] Swamp (2)
3 [UNH] Mountain

// Creatures
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
4 [SOK] Hand of Cruelty
4 [DIS] Rakdos Augermage
3 [DIS] Lyzold, the Blood Witch
3 [GP] Plagued Rusalka
4 [RAV] Frenzied Goblin
4 [DIS] Rakdos Guildmage

// Spells
2 [RAV] Last Gasp
4 [DIS] Seal of Fire
3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [RAV] Char


Is that still your list? What board are you running?

[fooligan]

nahh
check this **** out:!
// Lands
1 [CHK] Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 [CHK] Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
4 [9E] Sulfurous Springs
4 [DIS] Blood Crypt
9 [CHK] Swamp (2)
3 [UNH] Mountain

// Creatures
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
4 [SOK] Hand of Cruelty
4 [DIS] Rakdos Augermage
3 [DIS] Lyzold, the Blood Witch
3 [GP] Plagued Rusalka
4 [RAV] Frenzied Goblin
4 [DIS] Rakdos Guildmage

// Spells
4 [DIS] Seal of Fire
4 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [RAV] Char


what im tooling with:
3 gravepact
4 distress
3 more disruption
1 swamp
2/3 seal of doom!
1/2??? nefnjnfedfji hot **** !~!112

----------------------------------------------------------------

and heres the other wang

// Lands
4 [9E] Urza's Mine
4 [9E] Urza's Power Plant
4 [9E] Urza's Tower
4 [GP] Steam Vents
2 [DIS] Breeding Pool
3 [9E] Shivan Reef
1 [9E] Karplusan Forest
1 [9E] Yavimaya Coast

// Creatures
3 [DIS] Simic Sky Swallower

// Spells
2 [9E] Tidings
2 [DIS] Demonfire
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
3 [9E] Mana Leak
4 [RAV] Remand
3 [DIS] Simic Signet
4 [RAV] Compulsive Research
4 [GP] Electrolyze
3 [9E] Pyroclasm
3 [GP] Savage Twister
3 [GP] Izzet Signet

**** thats too much, im spent!

[Arcvanthelant]

look again it is mostly black.

[fooligan]

look again it is mostly black.
excuse me?

[Rakavolver]

Fooligan, he's talking about his decklist at the top of page 44. Do you want to explain Infernal Tutor, Plague Boiler, Brain Pry, etc., or should I? Or neither?

[speedyaxon]

I just thought I'd post the build I'm testing out at FNM's. It's violently aggro/control, with a lot of hand disruption. I went 5-2 this past Friday. I lost both to the gruul beat deck. Should have been 6-0, but like a dumbass, I forgot to side in hit//run.

creatures (22)
3 hypnotic specter (http://forum.tcgplayer.com/)
4 plagued rusalka (http://forum.tcgplayer.com/)
3 rakdos guildmage (http://forum.tcgplayer.com/)
4 hand of cruelty (http://forum.tcgplayer.com/)
3 nezumi shortfang (http://forum.tcgplayer.com/)
4 rakdos augermage (http://forum.tcgplayer.com/)
1 ink-eyes, servant of oni (http://forum.tcgplayer.com/)

spells (16)
4 rise/fall (http://forum.tcgplayer.com/)
4 volcanic hammer (http://forum.tcgplayer.com/)
4 distress (http://forum.tcgplayer.com/)
4 phyrexian arena (http://forum.tcgplayer.com/)

lands (22)
4 blood crypt (http://forum.tcgplayer.com/)
4 sulfurous springs (http://forum.tcgplayer.com/)
3 mountain (http://forum.tcgplayer.com/)
9 swamp (http://forum.tcgplayer.com/)
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep (http://forum.tcgplayer.com/)
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse (http://forum.tcgplayer.com/)

SB
4 hit // run (http://forum.tcgplayer.com/)
3 demolish (http://forum.tcgplayer.com/)
2 demonfire (http://forum.tcgplayer.com/)
4 pyroclasm (http://forum.tcgplayer.com/)
2 cruel edict (http://forum.tcgplayer.com/)

I'd like to replace the hammers with chars, but that's a bit out of the price range right now.

I'm not entirely sure on the SB. I have pyro for the nasty matchup vs. bw husk, the hit/run and edicts for vs. gruul beats/en-vec, and demolish for jitte or tron i suppose. The demonfire I'm not sure about yet. I might pick up another quicksand and replace those with them. I haven't faced some of the tier 1 decks yet, so it could change a bit.

Overall though, it seems to work together very nicely. Turn 2 discard at the opponent is always frustrating, and with all the hand disruption, the shortfang has been quite the finisher for me.

(i posted this on wizards as well, just looking for ideas)

[wyatt290]

nobody likes the splash of U? its really good you would be surprised how good rise is.

[fooligan]

i think im actualy going to play fnm this week and maybe even a sat-morning tourney...

wif this!

3 plagued rusalka
4 frenzied goblin
4 dark confidant
4 hand of cruelty
4 rakdos guildmage
3 lyzolda the blood witch
4 rakdos augermage

4 seal of fire
4 char
4 umezawa's jitte

4 blood crypt (2 to go)
4 sulfurous springs
1 shizo, deaths storehouse
1 shinka, bloodsoaked keep
3 mountain
9 swamp

3 gravepact (3 to go)
4 distress (?/4 to go)
3 mindslicer
1 swamp
2 seal of doom (2 to go)
2??? arena?

im just wondering what my odds are with bad(wild)tron running amok and the number of maggy decks...

[fooligan]

troll and vec in the format?
seems asif weve got our work cut out for us...

[DarkAngel1979]

Discussion topic: About Saito's deck that finished in PT: Charleston finals...

Do you think it is viable outside of a team environment?
Do you think something like that is viable in current Standard?
Do you think it probably will be viable post-rotation?
What do people suggest to pimp it up a little for current Standard?
Any suboptimal choices when going to the bigger cardpool?

I love very aggressive decks and given I've already got a Rakdos deck going, I'd be interested in examining the white splash. I liked the use of hasty evasion critters as 'more burn' spells. The whole deck seemed pretty ballsy to me. And I like that.

I expect Isamaru would be a neat addition, but I'm setting up to have a good post-rotation deck and would rather not pick up Kamigawa rares. 9th edition rares that might not make it to 10th are also iffy, but much less so since that rotation is still a year away.

The thing is that I own a couple Steam Vents and Watery Graves to try out the Rakdos + blue splash idea, and I am wondering whether to pursue Godless Shrines and Sacred Foundries, for which I will probably have to trade dual-for-dual with my blue duals in order to reduce costs.

[evilgenius410]

Ive been casually building a rakdos seck that i think might have the power and disruption necessary to win:

4 blood crypt
4 sulfurous springs
5 mountain
8 swamp

4 plagued rusalka
4 seal of fire
4 rakdos guildmage
4 distress
4 rise/fall
3 jitte
4 dark confidant
4 lyzolda, the blood witch
4 rakdos augermage
4 hypnotic specter

board:
4 char
4 rain of gore
4 cruel edict (helps versus paladin envec)
3 volcanic hammer

I find the 16 disruption spells (distress, fall, hyppie, and augermage) give me good control matches, while the rest of the deck is good versus aggro, and the disruption helps versus heartbeat. any suggestions?

dark angel i like the idea of rakdos with counters and dimir cutpurse...test and bring us your results

[Magik_Freak]

This deck has gotten me a 1st and a 2nd place in the last two FNM's, the only two I have taken it to. My build mostly looks like a post-sideboard version of Rakavolver's deck. This is the sideboard I have been using to great effect.

2 Phyrexian Arena
3 Pithing Needle
4 Flames of the Bloodhand
4 Distress
2 Hit//Run

[Rakavolver]

Congrats, Magik_Freak. OK, I'll bite. WHICH post-sideboard version? I listed two, one anti-Aggro and one anti-Control.

[fooligan]

your a colbert fan too? awsome!
or a fan of the factor? cooler then cool!

my fnm is tonight: check the list back a page... sb help!!!11

[Magik_Freak]

Congrats, Magik_Freak. OK, I'll bite. WHICH post-sideboard version? I listed two, one anti-Aggro and one anti-Control. hehe, works everytime. Here's the list that I use.

4 Frenzied Goblin
4 Dark Confidant
4 Hand of Cruelty
3 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
4 Rakdos Augermage
3 Hypnotic Specter
3 Plagued Rusalka

4 Seal of Fire
4 Char
1 Demonfire
4 Rise/Fall

4 Blood Crypt
4 Mountain
1 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
4 Sulfurous Springs
6 Swamp
1 Tomb of Urami

Its a little bit of everything. My sideboard is what makes this deck tick. It was almost perfect these last two FNM's. I only lost one game the time I got first and two games last week.

This is my new favorite deck because to update it post Timespiral, I only lose Hand of Cruelty and the rare lands. Post 9th, Sulfurous Springs will be a hit as well as Hypnotic Specter, but it is managable and thats assuming both of those cards will not be reprinted.

Edit: I put the deck from memory and I remembered wrong. Changed it.

[fooligan]

i have a report before i adress anything...

i made an unimpressive 4rth...

i went 3-0 in the fist rounds, was halfheartedly beaten by my friend so we could both qual (i was the only 3-0 and it was a meager tourny)... then to died in my top 4 slot... making either 3rd or fourth... i didnt stick around to find out...

on the bright side i was able to wipe quite afew smirks off some doubters faces, and i caught one of them exclaiming that they wanted to build it now... damn... i dont want that idiot mucking up my cover...

so the matches.
first round: u/w control, featuring afew good men...
he was running md vecs, GMs, hussars, and reavers, along with the usual counter compliment, wog and condemn (as far as i can say)
game one mine... even through a turn 3 vec... i forget most of the rest...
sitting high on a decent lifetotal he was the terrible victim of bob + lyzolda + shizo... and i think i dropped something else... he wraths, i end up useing car instead of shock+draw... b/c he was at 8...
i proceed to drop a gm with 4 untapped, hes now at 2, he wraths again.
i drop stuff, we stal mate for a while from a hussar, i rip a seal and char off bob...
-1 gobo, -3 rusalka, -4 seals (i hadnt seen GM)
+1 swamp +2 mindslicer +1 okiba +4 distress
i see none of it... maybe the swamp
game 2 he gets 2 vecs, and i have to play catchup till the midgame, and it seems to work... untill a critical turn when he plays the reaver...
he still has 2 vecs in play (one untapped) and it comes down to me 8 and him 6 as he swings with his men for the kill GM does his thing... he creates a situation where the reaver cannot deal damage, and his game winning alpha strike is ended with me at 4 and him with but a fresh hussar and condemn mana up... lyzolda comes down... a dude is made... 4 points flow easily from lategame mana and lyzolda...

2-0 in a monster matchup, b/c of play and tech
(hands were very relevant)

2nd match: glare... pretty basic... fat aggro dominating dudes and a supply demand build...
i win the roll, but cry at a double mull into 4 lands and a jitte...
things look up as i curve with augermage then jitte, but although i can deal with the 3 elephant congragation, i cruble to the glare...

-1 seal -3 rusalka -2 char +2 seal of doom +4 distress
game 2 disruption does its job well and i nail 2 of 3 vecs and something else quite consequential... probly a supply... hands and mage do their job and i believe an eventual jitte seals it... he complains about not drawing anything... i remind him of 3 vecs and other strong cards that i deftly delt with... he laments my "discard strategy" and boards some more...
i do not
this one is hard to keep straight...
this time he nails the congragation for hierarchs... but afew turns late and too have slight issues eventauly i curved into augermage and jitte... taking a turn to rip his hand a bit... he eventualy heaps on the glareness but hands void it and jitte seals the deal, wiping his board and through attrition knocking him back from his 4 hierarch stoop and keeping me afloat. Synergy ahoy!

round 3 g/u/w beats
i liked the deck.. seemed cool, also seemed like a good matchup...
i dont quite remember but there was some stalling on my part but a augermage took hold on drop, avoiding countermagic by some means that i forget... oh it was because i 2 for oned an opposing wolf with seal and goblin... and to later lay another goblin after a trygon... which kept me off a jitte as i tried to answer it with char... which took a while, but in the meantime i was winning the damage race and was ble to put the counters to use killing his kuzu and allowing my goblin to press the remaining damage through, over the course of a couple turns..

-2 seal of fire +2 seal of doom

game 2 featured my some little battles but mainly 2 un molested bobs on my side and a ghostly prison* on his side, my card count beat out his remarkedly poor draws (he flunked a turn or 2) but it came down to wether i played the 4 to attack or resolved my seal against his wolf (we were both pretty low and i had one of my bobs still around, having sealed the other one) i went with the seal and it payed off, he later showed me a might of oaks he was planning to win with, i won a turn later off of a lyzolda and a press...

4rth match, my friend playing glare...
most of the games came down to afew varriations of the same main battle: glare, stuff, generation, and kodama on his side, and me with jitte, whatever, hands and augermages... and as we did so we were constantly making petty discussion on what we were going to do for the match... we were playing mainly for fun, i had pretty much agreed to concede to him already, i was in either way...
he won 2-1, in casual and in reccord... tough games but relaxed ones...
i remeber having various issues throught the match but they seemed trivial and i dont remeber them... he really just made a bunch of time and was a little more inevitable on a plainer board...

top 4 gruul, and i managed to ge the list... this was brutal... this is the deck i seem to do worst against: massive burn with tough guys
4 shock
4 seal
4 hammar
6 4 point burn

4 sophy
4 BTS
4 scorched rusalka
4 kird ape
4 jitte

18 burn spells 8 shocks (kill every guy in my deck for 1) ,y worst nightmare... this played like my lesser matches against my WWr deck...
part of it was bad luck, which accounts for apart of the explaination, but alot of it was that he could go one for one easily, and en masse against most of my deck, killing my decks vital synergy and keeping my stronger slower effects down...

the games were mainly he goes one for one with my stuff negating my advances as he takes advantage of the tempo involved in playing efficient answers and any of my irrlevant draws to close in on his game...
we tested a bit aferwards and we found although i can win i cant mess up my draws (no double lands off a confidant) and i have to play it tight, curve and life...
char is strong here b/c it can kill all his crap without having to rely on other, possibly removable cards but is inefficient in terms of life... im only now contimplating the use of grave pact in the match, though its bad to have the extra land and its hard off the top, it does deal with his men and makes it akward for his usualy clean one for ones.... but he doesnt rely on creatures...

this build is unorthodox but it seems to be almost as bad pre and post-board as sss tron is pre-board...


i think all in all it was as expected... the deck is really strong if you know what your doing but it can accept that it needs circumstance to win some matches...
an aggro deck at its finest.

im about out for now...
heres the sb

4 distress
3 gravepact
1 swamp
2 mindslicer
1 okiba gang shinobi
2 phyrexian arena
2 seal of doom
i was missing one slicer...
__________________

[Rakavolver]

Congrats, fooligan. Good goin'. Gruul is a toughie, but unless he has a godhand your odds aren't worst than 50/50 (match) if you have Rakdos Pit Dragon. Gruul hates flyers, they have to (and will) kill it, fine, that's one less burn spell so something else gets through. Maybe a 3/2 First-Striker? Maybe a Jitte war you win? Thank God they don't bring the white for Pallys and HoH.

SUPER-props for shutting up critics of Rakdos. That's always nice. :-)

[fooligan]

i usualy get pretty decent odds in the gruul match, b/c i can beat any of their hands if i draw well and my synergy stands up... id say i was 65 or possibly better in heezy... b/c i havent tested recently and my memory is shot...

thank you...
i love to give the jessie prestons of the world some schooling but unfortuanately i believe that ruins my cover... i need to seriously think about this... anyway too late did i find out there was a mox ruby tourny today... i think i had a chance... but im tired...

[DarkAngel1979]

Anybody seen the new snow land in Coldsnap (Mouth of Ronom) that was previewed in Scrye? Colorless creature kill = dead Paladins. And it's 4 damage, no conditions like 'attacking creature', so it kills everything you'd usually Char. Cost is a little prohibitive though. I wonder if it would be a good idea to go to snow lands to support it...

[fooligan]

if i can afford a colourless land in my mana base i will likely use it or one of the many other crazy strong colourless sources we have access to... unfortunately the chances of that seem slim till after some of our strongest cards rotate... and then i might drop the deck entirely... this deck really relies on its synergy...

[darkumsirgotem]

Here's my version:

4 Wild Cantor
4 Kill-suit Cultist
2 Drekavac
2 Gobhobbler Rats
2 Rakdos Guildmage
4 Squealing Devil
2 Jagged Poppet
3 Avatar of Discord
2 Nekrataal

4 Cry of Contrition
4 Rise/Fall
3 Delirium Skeins

4 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
4 Blood Crypt
4 Sulforous Springs
6 Mountain
6 Swamp

I made this version a little faster than some because delirium skeins is quite a good third turn drop against many decks, especially if your at a tempo advantage.

A nice play would be...
turn 1: Wild Cantor
turn 2: Cry of Contrition, haunt wild cantor, sac cantor to play rise/fall
...the opponent discards 4 cards.

[darkumsirgotem]

Here's my version:

4 Wild Cantor
4 Kill-suit Cultist
2 Drekavac
2 Gobhobbler Rats
2 Rakdos Guildmage
4 Squealing Devil
2 Jagged Poppet
3 Avatar of Discord
2 Nekrataal

4 Cry of Contrition
4 Rise/Fall
3 Delirium Skeins

4 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
4 Blood Crypt
4 Sulforous Springs
6 Mountain
6 Swamp

I made this version a little faster than some because delirium skeins is quite a good third turn drop against many decks, especially if your at a tempo advantage.

A nice play would be...
turn 1: Wild Cantor
turn 2: Cry of Contrition, haunt wild cantor, sac cantor to play rise/fall
...the opponent discards 4 cards.

[Magik_Freak]

Lately, I have found Lyzolda to be sub-par. I never seem to have the mana open to use her. Is she not needed for this deck or have I had bum luck in testing? Is, say, Rakados Guildmage a stronger inclusion for my deck?

[DarkAngel1979]

Lyzolda is good. Guildmage is better.

[Rakavolver]

Lyzolda is a burn + Draw card. That's what she is. I was surprised at the fact that she's a Legend and has a toughness of one, two drawbacks, didn't hurt as much as I thought they would.

She is a TOTAL "tramp," hence the name of my deck. Well, just look at her! Would you want to date that? Talk about your high maintainence, not to mention the "whipped" factor. Yikes.

Having said that, while she seems tight v Aggro, she's not that hot there. I like having her in v Control, because they hate having you play catch-up in card drawing, and they hate burn. She has a sweet synergy with the other cards in the deck, and if it turns out all she does is take a burn spell, fine, that's a burn spell that didn't hit say Augermage, or Guildmage.

She's a "tech" card and hard to play. She's jumped around in my builds (like the hussy she is) from main to sideboard to out of the deck entirely to back in the main again ... all over the place. Beyotches do that. I like her fine main right now ... control is everywhere.

Which doesn't change the fact that 4 Rakdos Guildmage + 4 Rakdos Augermage are the core of the deck. I wouldn't play Rakdos without those key 8 cards.

[Rakavolver]

Uh-oh. Don't look now, but people are starting to notice our archetype. Patrick Higgins' weekly MTGO/MODO/MOFO/whatever it's called Weekly On-Line Tourney Results are up, and after the week starting off hugely Control (as predicted), Rakdos has risen up to meet the challenge in ways Owl can only wish it could. Check it out, from the bottom of Pat's article:




Mindcandy's deck, designed by wefald and his Shark Pool brethren (who is also known as DHG, who took the BR Aggro deck to the top 4 finish), is designed to beat “midrange decks” (according to DHC, who also stated that this version is a lot different then the one he took to the finish in the 4x event) but doesn't like facing Zoo or Gruul (and which is why the sideboard includes so much removal). Against Tron Control, the matchup is dependant on the dice roll and how much you draw your discard. Augermage is the strongest creature against the Tron control decks with this build.

4 Char
4 Cruel Edict
4 Dark Confidant
3 Distress
3 Hand of Cruelty
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
4 Steam Vents
4 Sulfurous Springs
7 Swamp
3 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Blood Crypt
2 Demonfire
3 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
4 Rakdos Augermage
2 Rakdos Carnarium
4 Rakdos Guildmage
4 Rise/Fall

Sideboard
1 Distress
4 Last Gasp
2 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
3 Phyrexian Arena
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Volcanic Hammer

Dangit, I liked being unappreciated and under the radar. :o

I'm not complaining though. Not at all. Good goin' to all of you. You see? Sometimes, the hard work in thinking a bit ahead of the curve does pay off.

[Defiant]

i making a BR aggro/burn but i need help with main deck and SB - my list so far

4 Hand of cruelty BB (Good Card, doesnt get codemned/fettered/pacified and so on....)
4 Lyzolda 1BR (Awesome, should be in erevy BR deck)
4 Demonfire XR (AWESOME BURN)
4 Dark Confident 1B (good early card draw, can swing, he speaks for self)
4 Rakdos Augermage BBR (awesome card, 3/2 first strike? yes please!)
4 Char 2R (speaks for itself)
4 Seal of fire R (cheap burn)
4 Rakdos guildmage B/R B/R (awesome card, go with witch if needed)
4 Goblin Cohort R (good quick damage as playin creaturs for first few turns prob)

4 Blood Crypt
4 BR 9th Painland
8 Swamp
8 Mountain

SB ?????????????

[littlewoodg]

Uh-oh. Don't look now, but people are starting to notice our archetype. Patrick Higgins' weekly MTGO/MODO/MOFO/whatever it's called Weekly On-Line Tourney Results are up, and after the week starting off hugely Control (as predicted), Rakdos has risen up to meet the challenge in ways Owl can only wish it could. Check it out, from the bottom of Pat's article:



Dangit, I liked being unappreciated and under the radar. :o

I'm not complaining though. Not at all. Good goin' to all of you. You see? Sometimes, the hard work in thinking a bit ahead of the curve does pay off. I heard a second B/R placed top 8 in the same tourney running a Hellbent list including Dread Slag, Pit Dragon, Delirium Skeins etc...has anyone anyone seen that list? (lost to firemane angel in the final go, which is odd, my 'bent fattie eats the angel...)

[DarkAngel1979]

I'm thinking about grabbing 4x of those new Coldsnap BB, 2/1 pumpable flying pro-white knights and shifting towards a predominantly black deck with Hands and a red splash for the strong Rakdos 3cc cards (and burn, obv).

[Sakrafyce]

I'm thinking about grabbing 4x of those new Coldsnap BB, 2/1 pumpable flying pro-white knights and shifting towards a predominantly black deck with Hands and a red splash for the strong Rakdos 3cc cards (and burn, obv).

Sounds like a good plan, I was thinking about doing the same.

[fooligan]

hmmm, its deffinately going to be a noggin scratcher...
i dont want to start opening myself up to more frequent 3 for ones from electrolyze... and the fact that hand is a 3/3 white beater for free is very advantageous....
but the prospect of evasion and the added innevitability seems very tempting...
i wish i could splice one in as a 2/3 of...

[Magik_Freak]

Good to see this deck is getting some credit. I also must point out some devious tech with the Steam Vents for the random Rise/Fall topdeck. I would run it, but I already have troubles with keeping my life total high enough to win, especially with toss ups like Gruul.

I have moved Lyzoldas to the sideboard now in favor of Rakados Guildmage, but only two, as it is just a bear early game and my two drop is pretty full. I may go 3/3 with Hand of Cruelty and Rakados Guildmage, but only time will tell.

[Rakavolver]

I'm thinking about grabbing 4x of those new Coldsnap BB, 2/1 pumpable flying pro-white knights and shifting towards a predominantly black deck with Hands and a red splash for the strong Rakdos 3cc cards (and burn, obv).

Yah, right? Based on what I've seen so far from Colds**t, MonoBlack and even Orzhov Control are looking pretty good.

Yeah, the self-damage in the deck can sometimes be a problem, which is why I suggested splashing White so long ago. Fetters, mostly. Herald is Azorius and Hierarch's Selesnya, more's the pity. Shouldn't matter though because we're stronger vs Control, and only if the game goes on way too long (it shouldn't) will that self-damage matter.

Josh Ravitz has a Rakdos list up as well in his latest Premium article. He likes Bottled Cloister, the 4cc artifact Howling Mine for one that seems to be a darling of Pros everywhere. Whatever.

[fooligan]

so it seems lists like mine are growing in popularity on these boards too...
dont ditch GM though, hes still very strong...

and to thoughs who have mentioned lyzolda vs GM, you might find that they work much better as a pair...
late game innevitablity at its finest, token, block/attack, sac for 2 points!
its genius at 6 mana a turn!

[fooligan]

ive been told to play the 3 pacts and swamp md... in place of 4 chars... im going to try it out for a bit...
but im really not sure about it... playing a 4cc slow cards/removal spell that doesnt deal damage, and makes you run more lands might be too much slowdown and screw up the decks awsom balance...

[Rakavolver]

WHO told you, WHO ??!! We want names !
;-)
I dunno running it main. It really hurts if you "Bob" it, seems a bit aimed at anti-critter decks. I think the toughest part, since this is SUCH an anti-control deck, is which cards, how many maindeck slots, can you give up v Control and make anti-aggro. I'd say it depends on your tourney. Kids like critters, Pros like AggroControl (like us) and Control blah blah etc., so I'd say it's up to you. On the JSS, such a strategy would totally help you breeze through the early rounds, but at a JSS, honestly, I'd probably recommend Piley's WUG Control, which is terrifically anti-critter, and would be like a bye deck ... at a JSS. Shrug.

[fooligan]

ian micel... **** it i dont know how to spell it... weve been testing and playing the deck together for a while... and ive been steadily taking or revoking his suggestions on the main deck...

why havent you been beating aggro decks, how would you rate youreself as a player?
i cant play in jss... and often aggro decks are a strong choice b/c they are solid and dependable, they will likely give you all the cards you need to win in most games and the player is just there to use them properly.

from what i heard my the jss, magnivore was king...

he says that gravepact should be comming in in most matchups anyways... anything that isnt heartbeat or wildfire (in terms of tier archetypes) should be seeing that card, b/c it's sooo many guys.
the life loss is less of an issue b/c i add to my land count and i cut chars...

[fooligan]

from me on annother forum
please talk some more... or is my list so perfect you need not discuss..?


heres my current sb:

ive been told its very strong against maggy...

4 distress

3 gravepact

1 swamp

2 mindslicer

1 okiba-gang

4 seal of doom



likely ill cut a seal for something... and okiba was in place of a mindcslicer but its proving itself (it was up between them in the first place..)

im not sure what ill do when i move the pacts to the main deck as ian is telling me...

urg ssstron is one of the only matchups ive lost hope in... but i have yet to find a staple ist everyone plays (i only have a decidedly anti aggro jap list) and to thoughly test game 2...

im glad people are realising we have game agaist gruul (people playing this deck that is, i would be happy if no one new anything about this deck at all)

testing gravepact in the md seems about as strong as ian said in creature based matchups...



// Lands
1 [CHK] Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 [CHK] Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
4 [9E] Sulfurous Springs
4 [DIS] Blood Crypt
9 [CHK] Swamp (2)
3 [UNH] Mountain

// Creatures
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
4 [SOK] Hand of Cruelty
4 [DIS] Rakdos Augermage
3 [GP] Plagued Rusalka
4 [RAV] Frenzied Goblin
4 [DIS] Rakdos Guildmage
3 [DIS] Lyzolda, the Blood Witch

// Spells
4 [DIS] Seal of Fire
4 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [RAV] Char

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [CHK] Swamp (2)
SB: 3 [9E] Grave Pact
SB: 4 [CHK] Distress
SB: 3 [9E] Mindslicer
SB: 2 [DIS] Seal of Doom
SB: 2 [9E] Phyrexian Arena


the current md and sideboard... you can cut the chars and add the 3 grave pacts and a swamp from the sideboard to the maindeck...

and switch a frenzied goblin for a plagued rusalka and a mountain for a swamp to try out the new version...

im accepting ideas for the 4/5 new slots...





still comming with the analysis on the knight question but it seems as of now hands 3/3ness is more valuable then the innevitability and added trix of the knight... for now...

but its likely that they will be seeing play post rotation...

[Rakavolver]

from me on annother forum
please talk some more... or is my list so perfect you need not discuss..?

I like mine better, is all, although the maindecks are quite similar, yes? Well, I have Rix-Maadi Dungeon Palace and Tomb of Urami, and you don't. Why not?

I've also added Rakdos Blue, The Nova Scotia 3rd Place may 20th Regionals deck, under my siggy. I'm sure it's evolved since then but its a nice start to explore the splash aspect, which neither fooligan or myself deem necessary, though it is tempting.

Patrick Higgins lists a Rakdos White deck in his This Week in MTGO/MODO/MOFO article. here it is:

MTGO/MODO/MOFO Top 8 at 7/8/06 – 781020 – Standard 2x (47 players)
by Cutecarli

4 Dark Confidant
4 Hand of Cruelty
4 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
1 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
4 Rakdos Augermage
4 Rakdos Guildmage

2 Faith's Fetters
4 Lightning Helix
2 Phyrexian Arena
4 Rise/Fall
4 Umezawa's Jitte

1 Battlefield Forge
4 Blood Crypt
2 Caves of Koilos
4 Godless Shrine
4 Sacred Foundry
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
4 Sulfurous Springs
2 Swamp

4 Condemn
3 Crypt Champion
1 Demonfire
2 Faith's Fetters
2 Kumano, Master Yamabushi
2 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
1 Slay

[fooligan]

i was told that tomb was killing me, and when i thought about it... it was doing more harm then good..
me and patrick are developing a thing where each week he learns about rakdos a little more.. and each week i remind him of how "bad" it is...
i think you could tighten your list up a bit...
why is confidant not present...
wheres jitte? i just dont understand... im so confused... see we do have alot to talk about... i thought your list was just like my old one (chars) but with like dragon or some other 4cc guy...
id like a small analysis please and maybe something about matches...
ive been meaning to try out the higher cc split spells deck but never get around to it... yours is like a blend...
youve got to try my list out dude... its sooooooooo goooooose!
and have you heard of justice man... new single called "we are your friends" highly reccomended...
man i need to break from this... im typeing like im on E

[DeckBuilder]

Has anyone actually tried running a spirit an arcane deck of this color, my friend has one and it plays decent.
Deck list is...

4 Theif of Hope
4 Dark Confidant
4 Rakdos Guildmage
3 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
4 Frostling
4 Scorched Rusalka

4 Umezawa's jitte
4 Lava Spike
4 Glacial Ray
2 Death Denied

4 Blood Crypt
4 Sulfurous Springs
7 Mountains
6 Swamps
1 Shizo
1 Shinka

SB is

4 Hearth Kami
3 Char
4 Flames of the Blood Hand
4 Waking Nightmare

[Rakavolver]

i was told that tomb was killing me, and when i thought about it... it was doing more harm then good..
me and patrick are developing a thing where each week he learns about rakdos a little more.. and each week i remind him of how "bad" it is...
i think you could tighten your list up a bit...
why is confidant not present...
wheres jitte? i just dont understand... im so confused... see we do have alot to talk about... i thought your list was just like my old one (chars) but with like dragon or some other 4cc guy...
id like a small analysis please and maybe something about matches...
ive been meaning to try out the higher cc split spells deck but never get around to it... yours is like a blend...
youve got to try my list out dude... its sooooooooo goooooose!
and have you heard of justice man... new single called "we are your friends" highly reccomended...
man i need to break from this... im typeing like im on E


Interesting. I play Tomb, and it does me more good than harm. Different people, different experiences.
My list is very tight. I have confidant in the board to maximize my chances of beating the Aggro decks game1, I only bring Bob in vs Control. Since the deck has many anti-control elements in the main, I also have good great game vs Control.

I do have Jittes and Dragons, they are in my board, and I bring them in vs decks I think they're appropriate against.

I've already listed how I would build vs Control post-board and vs Aggro post-board. Do you really want more analysis? Too busy to look back? OK, I'll edit and show you. I'll try yours if you try mine. Deal?

[Rakavolver]

Anti-aggro, post board

4 Frenzied Goblin
4 Hand of Cruelty
3 Plagued Rusalka
4 Rakdos Augermage
4 Rakdos Guildmage
2 Rakdos Pit Dragon

3 Char
3 Phyrexian Arena
3 Pithing Needle
4 Seal of Fire
4 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Blood Crypt
5 Mountain
1 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
4 Sulfurous Springs
5 Swamp
1 Tomb of Urami

anti-control, post-board

3 Dark Confidant
4 Frenzied Goblin
4 Giant Solifuge
4 Hand of Cruelty
3 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
1 Plagued Rusalka
4 Rakdos Augermage
4 Rakdos Guildmage

3 Char
1 Demonfire
3 Phyrexian Arena
4 Rise/Fall

4 Blood Crypt
5 Mountain
1 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
4 Sulfurous Springs
5 Swamp
1 Tomb of Urami

[fooligan]

why needle against aggro?
you have your jittes...

you should try distress... and gravepact.. and possibly also seal of doom.

please post an analysis

[Rakavolver]

why needle against aggro?
you have your jittes...

you should try distress... and gravepact.. and possibly also seal of doom.

please post an analysis

No analysis, unless tcgplayer.com offers me money to write an article. This bird chirps for seed.

I will always answer specific questions though.

Why needle?

Well, have you ever tried the highly dis-synergous jitte + needle naming jitte combo? Sounds retarded, but try it, and you will see it wins games. Needle also has multiple uses vs other decks. I tries to cram as much goodness into the small 75 cards they lets me have, I tries. I don't like leaving out cards. But I have to. I like all the cards you mention. I just like the cards I run, better. No offense.

[fooligan]

i am content to play 4 jitte of my own, along with stronger synergistic creatures to deal with jitte....
it just seems like your reaming yourself if you draw needle first... all those wasted draws and slots seems suboptimal...

maybe i should stop... er... chriping for nothing... but those salvation kids seem so pitiful...
i suppose i should keep it inside the team... but sometimes i feel like my proding is all thats keeping these boards at a certain level... or the proding of kids like me... these boards are dying... and id hate to see that happen...


plus i believe that one man can only test so much, and that your products are also a product of your faults...making use of multiple angles helps fill out the cracks right...?
i guess im too noble... and needy or possibly lazy...
im just glad to have gotten my base together...

anyway dont write an article... at least not till rakods picks up speed... and then i might have to pick up a pen and paper myself... this internet thing is very different to me then writing... nice and loose.. with lots of traing off....

why not hit and run..>?

hahaha!.. this is too much.

[Rakavolver]

Be honest with me my friend. How much have you had to drink? No, the Jitte/Needle thing does not suck. I have won many games, matches, and tournments because of it. Cruel Edict, which I love, is the 2nd best choice. But that's my point. It's 2nd, not first. I speak in terms of theory of many decks, so I know what you're talking about. But when it comes to Azorius or Rakdos, I speak from experience, from many, many wins. What country do you live in, by the way? That will help me understand you better.

"Getting it off his chest

Zinedine Zidane apologizes for using his head, but says he couldn't stomach slurs toward family"

And yet, we will always be attacked verbally by others, each and every one of us. That doesn't mean we have to head-butt in response to insult on the stack. Or play vs. Early Harvest, which feels like (being on the receiving end of) the same thing.

[phantomass]

What country do you live in, by the way? That will help me understand you better.


I'm French.

So...?

[Rakavolver]

Nobody cares that YOU'RE French! I was asking fooligan. But hey cous, how ya doin'? Get over the world cup yet?

[fooligan]

i am one of your neighbors to the north... im canadian!
im also sort of french... but lost most of it when i moved to toronto.... though i still love french music!
im under the impression that that game was rigged...
it was too ridiculous and too perfect...

why is this relevant...?
and as for the drinking...
- its easy for a person to assume that jitte+needle sounds crappy vs jitte (also see how the pros board... i remember that glare at worlds boarderd out jittes with the extra needleds
- when i was laughing it was at the recurrance of themes and running (almost) jokes in the post... and how much i hate stream of conciousness but use it so much...

phantomass: do you like electronic music?

this is seeming to me like its likely to run down the road of racism....
but what is life without getting rubbed the wrong way abit right? and maybe we can get some conversation out of it...
so youre an alan moore fan eh? gaiman is my boy...

im also curious as to what main function said needles surve... as they cant only be for matchups with jitte, no, i have faith that youre better then that, and heartbeat is a breeze anyway... thats a big reason to play this deck...

[Rakavolver]

There is no racism when there is only one human race.

Just ethnism, and plenty of misunderstanding.

For example, I want to know where you lived so I could figure out what time of the day you are writing. That's all. I figure if it was midnight or later, a beer or two may ave been popped. Or maybe like you said, your brain patterns are so convoluted (often a sign of genius) that you write in many too many directions at once. I have that problem. Often, too often.

I live 6-1/2 hours south of Montreal. Been there, been to Ottowa, love the land, the people. Totally love the way your country offered the first new jersey salute (uses a single finger) to mono-blue at your Nationals last year with Viridian Rats. That was the sweetest. Who was responsible for that? Gerry Thompsen? He's my hero if so.

I don't care how the Pros board. They make plenty of mistakes. Not saying they're wrong, just saying they're not always right.

[fooligan]

im a friend of some members of the ratpack...
hey i live like 6hrs to montreal too... i go there twice a year...
for a little while i was talking to one (ratpacker) about this deck seemed promising to him... but theres been huge gap in my fnm playing what with all the schooling...

try my list youll love it...
and why not play jitte main deck...? youve got augermages and hands... it looks like youd put it to good use... or at least better use then alot of opponents...

[Rakavolver]

I did have it maindeck for the longest time, then the meta shifted to Control.

The way my maindeck is set up, I really have no idea what I'll be playing, so I start off with both anti-control and anti-aggro elements. Is that the wisest way? Shrug. Maybe not, but, it works for me. The position I most liked playing in football, the American one where you can legally use you head to head-butt, and hands and arms too, and legally hit people, was linebacker. Middle linebacker. Is it a run? Is it a pass? I like to be ready for anything.

[fooligan]

now im learing about foot ball! actualy we have it too... but no one cares... well hardly anyone in this area anyway...
i used to play a bit for fun... but i gravitated toward rugby... its just so much more wonderfully confusing...
as for the contact rules im not sure what there at for the cfl... but i know i prefer taking any advantage i can get...
i ve alway had trouble playing agressive in everything from football to RTS... but these days im finaly playing agressive decks... and i feel im many more times the player i was before for it...

i find that jitte is also helpful against control, in that, the best control decks (or most dominent) seem to rely on set ammounts of damage to remove your dudes...and jitte adds toughness...
aside from that alot of the other popular controling achetypes have been running more resiliant creatures to keep up with aggro (like vec/elephant) annother point for jitte...
but you should know all this already...
my last plus on the side of jitte is that it is like a neraly unblockable 4/4 that can deal its damage in other ways...
and those extra points can be really inportent in closing it up sometimes...

what is the control youve been seeing lately?

[Rakavolver]

Ah, Rugby, a REAL man's sport and probably the best sport on the planet. American football and the CFL version grew out of it. How many times were you injured? My brother played on the Rutgers Rugby team. All the substitutes played every game. Why? Was the coach a nice guy? Did he want full participation of all team members? No! You needed your benchwarmers because your starters usually got injured. Every game. Reminds me of having a sweet sideboard in Magic, and using EVERY card in the course of a tournament.

I won't discuss Jitte with you anymore. I understand your thinking but I understand mine as well. BTW, how are you doing vs Zoo? It seems to be making a bit of a comeback. God I hate Zoo, Mr. Power-over-Consistancy. I hope it dies many lovely deaths.

The control I've been seeing is the same everyone has been seeing: Good and BAD versions of:
-UR Tron
-Wafo-Tapa (look Ma, no Urzalands!), beloved by Flores
-URg Tron
-WUG Control (8 Wrath - including Final Judgements, Ghazis, Prides)
-UW Control
-UWg Control (best deck in T2, hard to play WELL, ulcer-producing)
-GWB Control
-GWBu "Teh" Masterpiece
-UW Tron (which I haven't acually seen, but people are trying it)

To paraphrase Monty Python's "Spam" bit:

Tron, Tron, Tron. Tron, Tron, Tron. Tron tron tron tron tron tron TRON !!!!

GOD! WHERE are my Sowing Salts ?!

[fooligan]

actualy i was usualy responsible for some injuries... i get a little reckless...
nothing ever serious though... and i never played it competetively.... we never really had a team... elementary school lacks team contact sports and i go to an art school... (not that thats indicitve of suckyness, weve been divion hockey champs for a while running, and i belive we got pretty far in at least one of both our b/g soccer and basketball teams...but its the summer so who remembers)
that didnt stop us from playing the sports though... i took it manditorily in gym twice, my favorite game besides bocce ball... and i remeber a time when lunch was consistantly filled with football or rugby.
my most common memory is of all the times clinicly obese (in my mind) people ended up ontop of me...
anyway enough reminiscing...

so u/w splash green is the best deck in standard... can you tell me how it varries from other 3colour lists... i can see how it might be strong when adapting to the "rise again" that u/r has been having but i was clearly bombed at regionals dispite massive play... was w/b aggro that bad of a matchup?
as for zoo, it died where i play nearly out of the marks...
the monetary issue coupled with the fact that everyones testing proved it didnt win consistantly drew them immediatly one of zoos sides for a more focused or consistant aggro decks... so i see alot of zoo colours but very little zoo, people sometimes get it together for something like a mox tourny or reionals... largely b/c vore can have issues with it... bathe is my favorite tech

and how do you fare in these matchups...? well i hope...

[wyatt290]

I started playing this deck because of its consistancy to beat control as well as aggro before sideboard.
The list im playing a a small splash of blue for RISE/fall it works very well as a combat trick ive also found that playing also a few bouncelands worked well but i switched them out for some of the new com into play tapped lands which are amazing in this deck...well most of the time.

Ive been testing also electrolize and dimir cutpurse in the sideboard for against aggro with the electrolize and control with the cutpuse.

the card i have found hurt the deck most though was pyroclasm it pretty much wipes everytihng out in the deck well actully everytihng how have you guys dealt with that problem.

[fooligan]

you just make sure you dont over extend too hard vs red control decks... keep it to a largest potential loss of 2 cards...
often if you go like turn 2 bob, 3 GM you force them to remove it... though i do prefer keeping a GM till post wrath, baiting is sometimes necessary...
just be concious of how much you need and what you are best off with on an unchallenged board...
if they dont have much after that interms of removal, or they take their time thinking theyve got some room, you teach them a lesson..
if they neglect killing the dude (likely bob) and GM you teach them annother lesson called, your at 12 i have 6 points on the table.

decks that run pyro are often harder pressed to keep the wall up entirely, they are usually forced to take breakes in between to sift...a turn 5 lyzolda will also give them shivers...

[Zardnaar]

I won't discuss Jitte with you anymore. I understand your thinking but I understand mine as well. BTW, how are you doing vs Zoo? It seems to be making a bit of a comeback. God I hate Zoo, Mr. Power-over-Consistancy. I hope it dies many lovely deaths.



Erm guilty as charged. I'm not having much issues with Zoo due to 22 non basic lands in it. I won a game today on 11 life though all self inflicted:eek: . Tron has issues as well though. I remember 3rd turn SSS play 4th turn beatings but also the signet signet, I die draws as well. Fast big creatures + burn.

I really wanted to play Rakdos though. Former "Machine Head" player and R/G aggro. My heart lies with Rakdos and some of these builds look interesting but I lack alot of Kamigawa block or certain key cards. I would swear Umezawas Jitte is more commen here than Cruel Edict for example and god knows where all the Pithing Needles went (I have my suspicions though). To me the Rakdos "core cards" are

4 Augarmage
4 DC
4 Guildmage
4 Jitte

everthing else is flexable. The problem with over commiting to Pyroclasm however is that you slow down and don't put much pressure on them. I hope Tron rolls over and dies as that should help out Rakdos alot. Other control builds are much easier to beat. I'm also sick of looking at Tron where no one else plays Zoo here due to $$$$. My build runs 35 rares MD and at least another 6 in the SB. I don't mind facing Rakdos with Zoo as I run more burn than they do which kils all their weak creatures. Even Augarmage usually gets eaten by BTS or a burn spell. I usually try and build an anti control Rakdos with Jitte in the MD as its often hard for them to top deck an ansewer to it due to discarding or the Augarmage and the Jitee gives you game vs Gruul/Zoo but can be difficult to equip due to burn spells. I'm not playing Rakdos to much anymore but I'm happy to offer my indsights such as they are vs certain matchups.

[fooligan]

top 4rd... lost one match to glare b/c im retarded, not just a play error, i was just retarded and made a huge bad play for no reason...

in top 4 i lost to ridiculous wrath and dragonful topdecks vs a u/w deck...
distress game 2 doesnt stop topecks... and extract meloku doesnt stop 3x dragons... too bad...
the guy was a beast... we split anyway so it was only for an edict...

[Rakavolver]

Someone has started another thread re Rakdos, click here to see it (http://forum.tcgplayer.com/showthread.php?t=82277)

Actually, there's even another one! I love it when popcorn pops. :-)

[fooligan]

my group has joined me in the feeling that pact is currently too cumbersome for md use... though it is still a major factor in post board games, char is again a part of the main deck.

we also have a mock post rotation list that subbs 3 pacts and a land for the jittes, a rusalka for a goblin, a swamp for a mountain and knights for hands!
from this list:
// Lands
1 [CHK] Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 [CHK] Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
4 [9E] Sulfurous Springs
4 [DIS] Blood Crypt
9 [CHK] Swamp (2)
3 [UNH] Mountain

// Creatures
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
4 [SOK] Hand of Cruelty
4 [DIS] Rakdos Augermage
3 [GP] Plagued Rusalka
4 [RAV] Frenzied Goblin
4 [DIS] Rakdos Guildmage
3 [DIS] Lyzolda, the Blood Witch

// Spells
4 [DIS] Seal of Fire
4 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [RAV] Char

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [CHK] Swamp (2)
SB: 3 [9E] Grave Pact
SB: 4 [CHK] Distress
SB: 2 [9E] Mindslicer
SB: 3 [DIS] Seal of Doom
SB: 2 [BOK] okiba-gang shinobi

[Kamphgruppe]

I threw this together and played it at FNM and won with it. It needs some work and I can't figure out what to do with it. In particular it needs another good sack outlet.

Here is the list

Card Draw:
4 Dark Confident
2 Phyrexian Arena

Zombies:
4 Festering Goblin
4 Rakdos Guildmage
4 Nantuko Husk
4 Lord of the Undead
2 Crypt Champion

Acceleration
4 Rakdos Signet

Removal
4 Wrecking Ball
3 Grave Pact

You Know Why
4 Jitte

Landbase
9 Swamp
2 Mountain
2 Rakdos Carnarium
4 Blood Crypt
4 Sulfurous Springs

Current Sideboard
4 Distress (For Ripping an Early Enchantment like Glare)
2 Cranial Extraction (You know)
4 Last Gasp (For Agrro Decks until I can stabilize)
3 Eradicate (For Keiga, Yosei, and general Card Advantage)
2 Shattering Spree

The recursion with the lords is nice. They bring a zombie back to hand and don't interfere with your draw. Crypt Champion is silly with jitte, if you can pull it off 1 hit usually means game over.

I would appreciate constructive criticism and any helpful thoughts anyone may have.

Take Care

Kamp