Fate

[RLRL]

Simple topic really.. Do you believe in fate and why...

Personally I see it that there is no such thing as fate, lets think about it... If we are fated to make certain decisions then by that reasoning we have no free will, however we are put in a position where we believe we do, meaning we are just playing out life with supposedly no purpose as everything we do is already spelt out in front of us, by that reasoning furthermore, rapists and murderers would essentially be screwed from the start as their entire existance is already spelt out to be tragic and twisted... If there were beings or whatnot deciding that some people would exist purely to cause pain for the other people, then thats just sadism really isn't it... its kinda sick to think about it... Meh... maybe im just being cynical... yes my arguement is flawed, i admit it... i missed out a bulk of it where ive thought about it and my hands have to catch up with my mind...

Discuss...

[ZAKtheGeek]

Your logic is flawed... Your entire argument against "fate" is based around the existance of omnipotent being(s) that decide everything, and moreover, benevolent ones.

What I believe in, I wouldn't necessarily call fate, but I suppose it's the same thing. I believe that the interactions of all matter and energy in the universe can be described and predicted with certain mathematical formulas. This includes what goes on in the brains of humans and other intelligent organisms. As such, all events are theoretically predetermined.

At the same time, it's possible that there's a certain random factor. For instance, in the case of formulas with higher degrees, various answers are correct. If such formulas are necessary, then all is NOT certain. How, then, would it be decided which way things happen? Some ideas:

-It's random. Simplest one.
-Many worlds theory. For each possibility, an alternate universe exists.
-It is controlled by a higher being. An intelligent number generator, if you will.

[praetoritevong]

Well RLRL, look, I don't know really... I mean, I don't believe really in Fate as a guiding influence in all of our lives, and that everyone has a predetermined fate. I think that each of us here can all do some little thing to change our lives if we so wished. However, as you know very well from what's been happening with me these past few weeks, that's basically been thrown out the window, jumped on, thrown in the mud, crushed under a semi trailer and blown up by an atom bomb. I really just don't know anymore, but I think now that it's one of those things that I don't think you can believe completely, but it's not an idea you can just throw away either. Everything that's happened to me recently, just coincidence? Maybe. But it's been so perfect (before this week anyway), that I have doubts.

[Abhorsen]

Like Zak said, sort of. If you know where every single atom in the universe will move at each second, then you can predict the future. Therefore you could see what will be happening next and where you will be, who you will be with. That is fate, but a different kind of fate, it's hard to explain for me. I saw that on Stargate, lol

My opinion though, i dont believe directly in fate but that we are destined for something. Not that we are specifically chosen to do this and that at a specific time, but given a direction to head in where we make our own decision and path we shall take. I guess this accounts for Zaks theory with the random variables. Please correct me if i interpreted you theory wrong Zak...

[kimishiro]

I believe that we are completely ignorant and nobody can deal with that. Our mathematical solutions are just 'rational' explanations of the universe. Of course, our brains can't begin to fathom what lies out there, and in fear of knowing nothing, we seek what we can not have.

To explain my own beliefs, I would need to write a book, so I'm just going to give you a smidgen of my self-created 'religion' if you will.

There are forces out there beyond our comprehension, and though our will may be free, that doesn't mean that they don't know exactly what we will do. 'Fate' doesn't exist but there are controlling factors about our realm, many of which gaze upon the future much like the same way you are gazing into the present, as is their way.

Logic is completely illogical, but to accept something of this magnitude would set back our race and undo all that has been done. So perhaps it is best that we don't seek enlightening of the world around us. Maybe it is best to accept that everything has a purpose and that everything is perfectly logical. That life itself is based on a 'system'.

=)

(( I got a nomination for most philosophical, neato! That makes me a philosophizer. >xD ))

[RLRL]

Hmm... i see where you are heading with that Abhorsen, its like when some people naturally have abilities in an area of expertise they may be seen as fated to perform particular roles...
A lot of people accept theories such as Evolution to stop reasoning for things such as fate and destiny from being a part of their everyday lives, evolution is a nice easy option in comparison to creationism, its unfathomable the purpose of creating life...

[ZAKtheGeek]

Again... "Create" and "purpose" imply omnibeing(s).

[kimishiro]

Excuse me for not expressing myself thoroughly enough. My last few lines were sardonic.

"So perhaps it is best that we don't seek enlightening of the world around us. Maybe it is best to accept that everything has a purpose and that everything is perfectly logical. That life itself is based on a 'system'."

I was just implying that we fear our own ignorance and truth would result in chaos and anarchy. So I concured that it is best to allow each their own beliefs and not supress our own on one another. The world would crumble through lack of belief.

[redeyes15]

Definition of fate:


The supposed force, principle, or power that predetermines events.

yes, i believe in fate. This is due to the fact that i am somewhat religious, and believe that there is a God out there. He knows all, and thats what fate is.

[ZAKtheGeek]

I'm not sure that's the same thing.

I mean, let's say, for example, that I knew the exact position and velocity of every particle in the universe. Theoretically, I know all events that will ever occur, like your conception of god. Does that make me a controller of fate?

There's a difference between knowing of something, and creating the course of its progress.

[ImJessieTR]

I agree. I don't particularly subscribe to fate, but I have seen plenty of events unfold in my life and the lives of others that would lead to a belief in fate. Some of my students were hyper-violent and disturbed -- regardless of your views on fate, if they continue to act that way they'll be dead before they're 20. It's simply cause and effect.

I've always believed in a certain fate for myself, but although I ended up WAY different than what I would have believed as a child, there are still traces of my childhood dreams in my present life. I mean, I wanted to be a doctor, but I ended up helping the elderly as a nurse's aide. I wanted to be a teacher (and anyone who was around when I wrote Pokemon World way back when knows how THAT went), but now I'm content to help aspiring writers on the internet. I wanted to be a park ranger, but now I work at a zoo feeding humans instead of the animals. I wanted to be a preacher, but I'm content to let my example speak for me.

I conclude by half-believing in fate. My life has kinda gone in the directions I have known since I was a kid, but not exactly.

[redeyes15]

I'm not sure that's the same thing.

I mean, let's say, for example, that I knew the exact position and velocity of every particle in the universe. Theoretically, I know all events that will ever occur, like your conception of god. Does that make me a controller of fate?

There's a difference between knowing of something, and creating the course of its progress.

read it again

The supposed force, principle, or power that predetermines events.


do you have the force to make my destiny? It also says force. You may be able to predetermine it, but it doesn't make you the controller of fate. Yea, just like you said in your last sentence. I could of just saved the time and agreed to your last sentance....

[ZAKtheGeek]

Actually, that definition is a bit ambiguous. "Predetermines" could mean that something either generates the information, or makes it happen.

do you have the force to make my destiny? It also says force.
Force is a noun in that context. I don't have to perform the action of forcing something to happen, I have to perform the action of being a force.

You may be able to predetermine it, but it doesn't make you the controller of fate. Yea, just like you said in your last sentence. I could of just saved the time and agreed to your last sentance....
Yes... I agree. But I don't really see what point you're trying to make.