U/G Madness

[caMooSE]

First off, i love the remodeling on this site. I used to post here...a long time ago when i was a brand new magic scrub. There was a great discussion on 10 land stompy stickied at the top that i used to use. Anyways, save that for another day...

Today, lets talk about Blue/Green Madness. In my oppion the most viable aggro control deck in the format since fishes sad passing...R.I.P. good buddy.

Lets start off with the decklist i've been tweaking lately. This is a slight variation of JP meyers U/G madness decklist that was posted on the TMD budget forums which was sadly nuked from orbit...and there was much rejoicing.

Mana:
3 Forest
3 Island
4 Tropical Island
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire

Creatures:
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Aquamoeba
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Arrogant Wurm
2 Waterfront Bouncer
2 Wonder

Spells:
4 Force of Will
4 Circular Logic
4 Brainstorm
1 Gush
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Frantic Search
2 Deep Analysis
1 Time Walk

As you may have noticed. This deck is set up to fit almost perfectly in a 5 proxy environment. This is one of the things that made fish a heavily played deck, inexpensiveness. In the event you need the proxys for something other than power...

Ancestral Recall comes out for another Deep Analysis.
Time Walk comes out for another Wonder.
Moxes come out for lands of their respective colors.
Black Lotus comes out for Lotus Petal.

Explanations...
Deep Analysis is good in the ever popular Oath matchup. Remember, you can use oath too...sometimes. When you do, you have a chance of ditching a Deep, making 2 more cards avalable to you as well as another creature. If not, it still draws cards, and works with the overall...madnessness of the deck.

In the U/G Madness thread i mentioned earlier, JP explained that Time Walk and Wonder serve similar purposes. Wonder will let your creatures fly for damage, nearly guarinteeing them unblocked. That hit every turn, will speed your kill up if they cannot block it.

Moxes and Lotus should be fairly self explanitory.

Now *cracks knuckles* card explanations...

Mana base is fairly self explanitory. Green duals over blue...trust me. You need the green to provide the beats. Otherwise, you could be left beating with Aquamoeba and Waterfront bouncer alone, and have your hand clog with green cards. In the event you need blue, fetch a trop. But, green mana is far more important in accomplishing the overall goal of the deck.

Wastes and Strip help in the MWS and Oath matchups. Sometimes stripping key lands can mean game.


Creature base consists of discard outlets and madness creatures. Wonder for utility. Also, Waterfront Bouncer is a HOUSE in the current meta. A resolved Bouncer spells doom for an oath player. It is also effective aginst the ever popular Platinum Angel. A nasty trick is to get them at 0 or negative life total, then bounce the angel for the win...i've never done it, but it'd be fun. It also provides a useful discard outlet for Rootwallas, Wonders, and Deeps which is just another plus in my book.

Rootwallas are very good for when your opponent decides to memory jar you, as well as any other mass discard effects. As is wonder. And, to some extent Arrogant Wurm as well, just remember to keep mana open if you see a jar. After all, you get your old hand back. Just don't wait too long, they may decide to not pop it if you have mana open.

Remember, madness can be played at the end of your opponents turn. Often, this should be done. You may squeeze in 1 or 2 more damage if you discard it to Mongrel or 'Moeba. However, if a wurm attacks, it's 4 more damage...duh. A Rootwalla will give you the added one anyways, with the option of 2 more. Unless a madness creature is drawn during the turn, it is usually a benefit to cast it on an opponents turn.


Now on to the Spells...what makes this deck tick. I won't waste your time on obvious choices...

Circular Logic. Often people have said to prefer daze, which imo is a bad idea. Daze is a good card, and coming online turn one, is very important in such a fast format. However...it is too often easy to play around. And, in the first turns, you cannot afford the tempo loss of the alternate casting cost. It would be better to let the would be dazed spell slide and deal with it...or it's effects later than take the tempo loss. Circular Logic however, is usually a definate counter. Most of the time people won't even look to see if they can actually pay the mana. You should still look to see if they can though. In the event it's possible, pitch a couple of cards before it, or pop a fetch or 2.

Gush is often a killer finisher card. It is very good in conjunction with wild mongrel. It will provide an extra 4 damage which is often unexpected and can speed your kill up at least a turn. It can also be good to draw a couple of cards in response to a spell or counter and get you back up to speed.

Frantic Search is also very useful. It's drawback of the discard is negated by the madness cards in the deck. Also, you can play arrogant wurms with it...which most people didn't know. The way madness works, is it's a removed from play effect. The madness card in question is removed from play and you have until the end of the phase to pay it's cost and play the card in question. So...a wurm is removed...3 land is untapped...the spell resolves...then you are free to pay for the wurm. This can be a big suprise at the end of an opponents turn, especially if you don't have any madness outlets.

Deep Analysis is almost never played, other than it's flashback cost. Remember, it is a sorcery. It is often pitched for an extra damage or 2 on the attack phase, then flashed back on the second main for 2 more cards.


Cards that should NOT be played....

Careful Study. This card is GARBAGE. At sorcery speed, it is already worse than brainstorm. Also, too often are there not 2 possible discards. Frantic Search is only used, because of the fact it is nearly free and instant speed. This card...isn't.

Roar of the Wurm. It's huge, a huge DRAIN TARGET! I have tested this card. It often wastes an entire turns mana, leaving none to cast spells with at the end of a turn. And, god forbid, if it is mana drained, you can guarintee your opponent will use said mana to mess you up good. I made the mistake of flashing it back aginst drain slaver once...needless to say, it was not a fun time. Just don't use it, the bads far outweigh it's goods.


Some discussion i would like to see, would be any possible metagame cards for the maindeck. I would also like to discuss the sideboard. Which is the reason i left it completely untouched. This deck could be quite strong aginst the metagames main contenders..being Oath, MWS based decks, and combo in all forms. I have always loved aggro control, and imo, fish just isn't viable anymore, so this was my next choice.

[Prometheus]

Have you tested Bazaar of Bhagdad? It provides a great madness outlet. Even though it is a Waste/Strip target, its ability far outweighs the reactive Wasteland. It is better than study since you can use it only when necessary to dump cards. It can cycle through your library and help continually find and drop threats. It doesn't tap for colorless which may make it a little unplayable. It may be something worth looking into since Bazaar madness made the top eight at Gencon.

[caMooSE]

I have not tested bazaar as of yet. My reasons for not running it have been mostly because it is a deck designed to be 5 proxy. Also, this deck needs to maintain tempo. It is often difficult enough to find two cards to dump to make frantic search worth the inclusion, though when you do it is very powerful. The U/G version of madness doesn't have enough cards it wants to send to the graveyard. There are...12 i think, though i cannot deny that cycling through the deck would be an amazing ability. I think bazaar would be more fit in a R/G build of madness, as it is more aggro oriented.

I'm not in a position to test bazaar right now. I don't have bazaars, and can't get them. The 5 proxy slots that i do have i think would be far more useful being what they are at the moment. I am also preparing this deck for a very large tournament, so i won't be testing too much.

I do think it should be tested though, i'm going to run it by a couple of people that i know have bazaars. As well as test it on the magic workstation *shudder* I'll post my results, though...i'm going to need time.

[_Flame_]

I thought about combining all 3 colors cos they all got their strengths, green has beatdown and good madness, blue has control and red gives you speed and burn. This is list I`m testing atm, still bit inconsistent so advice is needed.

4 Wooded Foothills
3 Taiga
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Island
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
1 of each mox
1 Lotus

4 Mongrel
4 Arrogant Wurm
4 Basking Rootwalla
2 Wonder
3 Anger
2 Waterfront Bouncer
2 Grim Lavamancer

1 Ancestral Recall
4 FoW
1 Time Walk
4 Fiery Temper

I think cards explain themselves. FoW is the main reason I still keep blue in since I lose half of my game against combo if I drop em all together. Anger gives deck some speed that U/G is missing and that is the main reason to include red. Other nice card is that madness Lighting Bolt. Also some sb choices would be nice to hear.

[Prometheus]

@Flame: I don't like to use the off color Moxen. They take up two precious slots that could be better used. Also, where is your counterbase? It's a good idea to have one to slow combo and force your threats through control decks. With Workshops powering out turn one Trinispheres, Crucibles, and Juggernauts, you may find that your going to need it. Anger is nice however is it worth the manabase changes? Lavamancer works great with Bazaar, but it won't usually see play until late game since you only run two copies.

Counters are particularly important, if you have seen some Top 8's, you'll know that Drain Slaver is a house. The number one target for your opponents Mana Drain is going to be Arrogant Wurm. Running 8 counters would be sufficient as well as downing the land count by 5 or so. Even though you have Bazaar, you don't want to get flooded. Another way to prevent that would be to put in a couple more fetchlands and drop Taiga. 4 of each other Dual would be fine if you decide to keep the red.

[Retracto]

where is the goose.

you know what im talking about,
nimble mongoose?

It is the nuts and by that i mean the crazy.

The untagetablitity is amazing because most T I removal is unable to kill it.

the other thing is that with threshold it is rediculously good.

[caMooSE]

3 colors dilutes the manabase, and the deck overall. 3 colors will mess with your mana as well as weakening the madness aspect of the deck. The only inclusion i could see as useful would be for Anger. If you play right, all of your madness creatures will have psuedo haste when played on opponents end phase. Burn isn't too useful, because with wonder your creatures fly anyways. You lose 4 counters as well as a whole lot of draw spells. Also...whith that 3 color list, you have 31! lands/mana producers. At only 1 land drop a turn, it's going to slow you down. And, you're going to empty your hand real fast, leaving you bazaaring blindly often.

Also, Lavamancer is a nice inclusion; however, if you fit the circular logics back in it's going to have negative synergy with them. As well as having negative synergy with your incarnations. If you decide to run daze over circular logic, you might as well just be playing fish.

If you want to go more aggro, go R/G, but that belongs in a completely different discussion altogether.


All of the creatures either are, or can be as big as nimble mongoose and faster. This deck can't afford to wait until it gets threshold, and doesn't want to have to dump cards just to do it quickly. I find a majority of my games are ended with only a few cards in the graveyard, as...most of them end up in play, or RFG in flashback cases. Which cards would you suggest be removed. The threat density is fine, so it would have to be a creature; so what creatures is nimble mongoose better than?


I've also been thinking about the addition of bazaar. I'm thinking 3 will be sufficent...mostly because i cannot find room for a 4th. I'm thinking about relocating the bouncers to the sideboard, and removing frantic search. Bazaars will provide the discard that bouncers once were, and hopefully speed me up enough to have a chance at racing oath game one. Frantic search goes, as it's one of the more conditional cards in the deck.

I'm predicting it to be pretty decent. They're going to cost me land drops though, meaning either being played straight off, or midgame. Once i start dropping land, i'm going to need it to keep coming in order to keep a constant stream of threats. Though, early game, they'll allow me early rootwallas and wonders. I'm predicting it to be more of a strong midgame card. When i have 3 land and am able to start dropping wurms off the top of my deck. I'm not sure if i have enough things to discard to make it worth it's while though. I'll try it none the less.

[_Flame_]

Yeah, I found out all you guys said, the deck becomes too distracted, it tried to do everything and did nothing really well. Since I really like the speed that Anger gives, I decided to make the mana base support it (need that stupid mountain) which hasn`t so far given me any color problems (10 games or so)
I dropped all other red cards and in came 4 Logic, 2 Moeba and 2 Deep Analysis (Still unsure, something else might work bit better, Intuition too slow in T1 Madness?) I`m still testing between 3 and 4 Bazaar. Goosse is good but it`s hard to find room for it and you get Treshold by turn 3-4, rarely earlier.

[Son of Satan]

You really need a full set of moxen along with Mana Crypt if you're going to be playing with Bazaar of Baghdad. Considering it's a non-mana producing land you will need all the mana acceleration you can get.

[caMooSE]

The problem i've been having with bazaar, isn't even really acceleration. It's just, cards that could be pitched for damage, or shouldn't be pitched at all end up having to go to bazaar. It's great to cycle through your deck with, and really shines when you don't have any other discard. I've found it to be a very fickle card. Sometimes it helps, others it doesn't help...or hurts.

I actually really like the idea of anger. I see no reason why i cannot fit it somewhere into the build. Before, when i used the blue fetches, i couldn't justify running another nonbasic. Now, with the foothills, one mountain should fit just fine. I'm not sure how many i should use though, or if it would be better than wonder. I hesitate to cut the bouncers, as...i really missed them when i used the bazaars. They provide such a great swing. Often dropping a creature, and getting rid of one of theirs is really amazing. I am going to try to fit it in though, and when i do, i'll post it up.

I would also like to discuss sideboarding options. I really fear combo. Mostly storm combo. Bouncer works nicely aginst dragon actually... Return the dragon back to their hand when they animate it. I've been thinking about a number of options. Null Rod seems too slow for storm combo, namely, TPS and Meandeath. I'm thinking about Chalice. Game 2 round 1 of the most recent waterbury, the oath player plays a chalice for 0 and absolutely locks the combo player up (sorry, don't know who's who). It's a video that can be found in the TMD tournament forums for anyone who cares. 4 Chalices SB should allow me to mulligan until i find one. Combined with wastelands, their mana should be locked up quite nicely. It will also shut down the kobolds deck which has seen alot of discussion on many forums recently. I've also been thinking about stifle. But the fact that these decks play duress and some countermagic has me weary. Oppinions?

[KennethZhang]

i was wondering, since you are running wastelands and stripmines, would crucible of worlds be a nice enough addition?

[caMooSE]

I actually bought crucibles to put into this deck. You would think they would be good. Then, you would be wrong. I had 2 in the spots that are now covered by wonder. All crucible did to me, was waste a turn. The extra LD didn't really compinsate for the dmage the arrogant wurm would have done that i could have played. It just, doesn't seem to come in fast enough. Especially aginst decks that have strong mana bases. They just lay a new land every time you strip one. Basically, setting the game on pause for awhile.

In testing, i would have much rathered damage over the crucible. Or, something more useful. Crucible seemed too much of a win more card to me. So, i cut it.

[uracowman]

I would suggest taking out some of the wastelands and putting in bazaar of baghdad.bazaar is exceptional when it comes to madness.

[AnFgangsta]

Well yeah the deck is nice, but it does have some problems. If you are not running Bazaars, I stress the need of more drawing, I mean it does slow down your acceleration manawise, but speeds up your hand acceleration, we must decide which is better, losing one turn worth of mana or having a constant flow of cards into your hand. One possible way to take care of this problem is adding someting like Werebear (who would ofcourse take advantage of threshold) or even using some elves/spirit guides. Sure you could argue some strong cards would be cut, but it would balance the deck out a little more. As for circular logic, 3 mana is a lot Id go with leaks maybe, or Misdirection, even Daze. I do agree with SoS though, if you run Bazaar power is going to be a nice compliment, almost a necessity for it to be as effective as possible.

[Engine_number_9]

Running Bazaars seems like a really bad thing. Since you dont run off-colour moxen you will loose Bazaars tempo. The good thing about Bazaar, the card drawing aspekt, will lack if dont run squee (bad idea) or run some more madness/flashback cards (i see you run 14 atm)

Main-deck ideas
2 Null rod, these are great at mana denial and coupled with wastelands they really can force your opponent into draw-pass mode. Furthermore they are very good versus combo (if you ever get a chance to get them on the board)

Sideboard ideas
2 waterfront Bouncer (if you face a lot of Oath)
4 Ground Seal (if you face a lot of welder decks/slaver/dragon)
4 Oxidize
4 Chalice
4 Arcane laboratory
2 Null rod

[moses]

I have noticed that no one has metioned Lions Eye Diamond yet. To me this is just like another Lotus that doesn't 600+ dollars. It also provides a mana producing discard outlet. Granted it could be argued that you would lose a Force or a mongrel but, I do believe that getting a wurm and or a rootwalla out turn one is far more broken then holding on to counterspells or a creature you might have to wait till a turn or two later to cast.

[Engine_number_9]

Lions Eye Diamond in this deck would be really bad. First of all what makes LED broken in a UGR madness deck is that the number of madness cards is higher than in UG i.e playing Raor of the Wurm, Violent Eruption and Fiery Temper and the fact that the UGR version packs draw-7 instead Brainstorms (sacking LED in response to casting a draw-7 is broken). Second UG madness is a Aggro Control deck, not a sole aggro-deck as most UGR-madness decks are. Discarding a whole hand to play a turn 1 wurm isnt broken. It kills the decks strategy which is to beat ones opponent whilst disrupting/countering him. Furthermore nearly every deck packs something to remove a wurm with before it becomes lethal.

[HazaredTheOmega]

You have an outlet for the diamond though.... Arrogant wurm and the flashback cards but thats pretty much it. If your running bazaar mi suggest only two because this deck already has that much madness outlets.

[Prometheus]

I personally don't like playing with Roar since it "Drain Me!" Playing with Bazaars however can make the deck go of two ways. It can either function as an aggro deck through the acceleration of Moxen and discard outlet of BoB, whereas playing without them makes the deck aggro control which is the ideal outline for this deck in vintage. As for Nimble Mongoose, I don't see how great of a card it is. Even at threshold, you put you opponent on a 7 turn clock with it, hardly strong for the deck. Of course, 7 turns is exaggerating since there will be more threats played, but I would rather be going Mox, Land, Mongrel instead of Mox, Land, Goose. Since there is little creature removal in vintage anyways, why play the Mongoose here at all? Playing it against control in the form of Blurred Mongoose is great since it really hoses all of their strategy. However, madness is a pretty tight deck as it is, and cutting solid cards for those that aren't as strong or beneficial to the deck seems rather iffy to me.

[HazaredTheOmega]

Remember were racing combo decks here...

[Son of Satan]

I personally don't like playing with Roar since it "Drain Me!" Playing with Bazaars however can make the deck go of two ways. It can either function as an aggro deck through the acceleration of Moxen and discard outlet of BoB, whereas playing without them makes the deck aggro control which is the ideal outline for this deck in vintage. As for Nimble Mongoose, I don't see how great of a card it is. Even at threshold, you put you opponent on a 7 turn clock with it, hardly strong for the deck. Of course, 7 turns is exaggerating since there will be more threats played, but I would rather be going Mox, Land, Mongrel instead of Mox, Land, Goose. Since there is little creature removal in vintage anyways, why play the Mongoose here at all? Playing it against control in the form of Blurred Mongoose is great since it really hoses all of their strategy. However, madness is a pretty tight deck as it is, and cutting solid cards for those that aren't as strong or beneficial to the deck seems rather iffy to me.

Prometheus, A 3/3 for 1 mana is sorta hard to knock. it's as simple as that. Your acting like Nimble Mongoose would be the only creature in play. You must remember one fundamental bit of knowledge, power comes in numbers. A Mongrel, and two Nimble Mongoose would be a 3 turn clock. A Wurm, Mongrel and Mongoose would be a 2 turn clock and etc. and even less than that If a creature has already dealt your opponent damage. They don't call it aggro for nothing you know.

[Prometheus]

I was refering to the initial list posted. It is more aggro-control since it impliments Logic's making the deck 8 counters. The more aggro version would need Bazaar to function which I also stated in my latter post. Here's an idea for Bazaar - Goose.

4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Tropical Island
2 Flooded Strand
2 Windswept Heath
7 SoLoMoxen
4 Island
3 Forest

4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Arrogant Wurm
3 Werebear
3 Wonder

4 Deep Analysis
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Gush
1 Frantic Search

If you're going to play with the Goose, you must compliment it with the Bear as well since one will try to obtain threshold as fast as possible. In attempting that, Bazaar is a must. Now another arguement in that case would be to run Brainstorm or Careful Study. Study gets threshold quicker, but Study makes you dump more cards. I think that the only efficient way to run Bazaar is in the RUG madness since there are so many more cards that interact with the discard abilities.

[Son of Satan]

Prometheus: There's a card from Portal: Three Kingdoms that's even better than Mental Note in Bird Sh*t. It is called "Strategic Planning" and makes playing Madness a.k.a. threshold decks alot more appealing to play. It's like an Impulse and Careful Study all in one but better! This is what it does.

Strategic Planning- 1U Sorcery

Look at the top three cards of your library. Put one into your hand and the rest into your graveyard.

Need I say more?

[HazaredTheOmega]

is it legal?...

[Engine_number_9]

4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Tropical Island
2 Flooded Strand
2 Windswept Heath
7 SoLoMoxen
4 Island
3 Forest

4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Arrogant Wurm
3 Werebear
3 Wonder

4 Deep Analysis
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Gush
1 Frantic Search



I think that using Bazaars is a really cool idea in madness. But I think you need to either play the U/G control- version or take the step and go pure aggro UGR-madness. This is a version I originally saw on the themanadrain about a half year ago, but i have been tweaking it towards a more "up to date meta" (meaning not as much fish).

Mana 26
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Taiga
2 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
1 Riftstone Portal
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Mana Crypt

Creatures 19
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Arrogant Wurm
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Roar of the Wurm
2 Anger
1 Wonder


Spells 15
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Windfall
1 Timetwister
1 Wheel of Fortune
2 Deep Analysis
4 Fiery Temper
4 Shrapnel Blast

This version of madness is not at all like the UG- version. Its qualities are a lot different than that of U/G. It is force vs. permission. My point in all this mess is: Keep UG as a aggro control deck w/o bazaars and keep bazaar madness UGR.

[Son of Satan]

is it legal?...

It will be this October. :)

[HazaredTheOmega]

never heard of it

where can i read more about it?

[Son of Satan]

Heres the link to the card. http://gatherer.wizards.com/default.asp?first=1&last=100&term=Strategic+Planning&Field_Name=on&Field_Rules=on&Field_Type=on&setfilter=Allsets&colorfilter=All&output=summary&sort=name&x=28&y=14 Just click on the card name and you'll see it.

[HazaredTheOmega]

hey satan where can i read morea bout portal being elgal? Or maybe you can tell me why it will be? :)

[Son of Satan]

Here's the info u wanted Hazared. Juts check that link. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dci/announce/dci20050301a

[HazaredTheOmega]

thanks satan...

I still dont believe they make starter playable in vintage :D. Why is that?

[Stelthjet]

The idea is that vintage is meant to have the largest card pool of any format, and since there are so few playble cards in portal anyway, it would further the feeling that T1 players have access to every card ever printed without disrupting the format

[Engine_number_9]

Last saturday i took U/G Madness to a tournament in the danish kapital of Copenhagen. I had been testing it the whole week with one of my friends through MWS so I wasnt unprepared.

Round 1 i played against a full powered oath deck. I didnt get a chance..... Game 1: he plays turn 1 Oath. I hoped to be able to draw a Bouncer but didnt get it before akroma got me.
Game 2: I played more aggresively and got him to 10 but before he resolved an oath and sealed the game be countering a Waterfront Bouncer.
0-1

Round 2 i played a non powered sligh deck. Nothing fancy about this match: My critters are bigger, faster and better so I just smacked face.
1-1

Round 3 I played a Full powered Gro-Atog deck.
Game 1: He played a turn 2 dryad which stalled my attacking, since i didnt get wonder. Turn 4 he resolved a tog and smashed my face with cunning wish for berserk with counter backup in turn 6.
Game 2: I started with a Waterfront Bouncer in my hand so i kept it. I started building up a force of a mongrel and a rootwalla but my Bouncer got countered. So when he resolved a dryad I got stalled again with him a 8. The next turn i played another rootwalla. But a topdecked (i think) deed made his day by killing my wallas whilst his dryad kept growing. The dryad got company by 2 togs and another dryad. On my side of the board there was only a 4/4 wurm which looked very small compared to the dryads. He took it home pretty easy.
1-2

Round 4: I played a full powered bad 4cc build.
Game 1: I simply ran him down with a turn 1 Mongrel followed by a turn 2 wurm.
Game 2: I started working his life with a moeba and a rootwalla. He played a Meddling Mage and but couldnt remenber what mongrel was named so he named moeba. I had 2 in hand at that time:(
I kept on attacking with the moeba and the rootwalla and was able to get another rootwalla into play.
For some turns i kept attacking whilst he went land go. I had a Mana crypt in play which damaged my so i was at 14 when he tinkered for DS collosus whilst being a 4. The turn after he attacked with both the DSC and the mage I looked at 13 damage and thought that I should just take the damage since i would win the turn after but then i remembered my crypt and blocked the DSC and won the turn after.
2-2

Round 5: I played a guy playing full powered dragon.dec
Game one I manage to waste a bazaar but wasnt able to stop him from going off turn 4.
Game 2 i sideboarded 3 Tormods Crypt 3 stifle and 2 naturalize. So I felt pretty confident.
I played turn 1 tormods crypt and a rootwalla with stifle and FoW backup. Turn 2 i tapped out to play a mongrel since i believed he wasnt able to kill my crypt with 2 mana on the board so I passed the turn.
He played another land with bazaar on the table so he now had 1 bazaar 1 underground sea 1 mox J, mox R and a dragon in the graveyard. He tried to animate the dragon, I used crypt in response, he stifled my crypt, I FoWed his stifle, he FoWed my FoW ending the game
2-3

What I discovered from playing U/G madness is that lacks some of the brokeness amd power that the top tier decks have. It cant win from nowhere, it cant win before turn 6 regulary, it doesnt have enough tempo to outrace dryads and it rarely seal games before the opponent is dead.

[HazaredTheOmega]

Would you mind to post your deck list? Thank you

*BTW whens Unglued and Unhinged gonna be legal in Vintage? I wanna weld in some gleemaxes and Mox Lotuses... Just kidding guys lol

[Engine_number_9]

nope, here it comes
1 Forest
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Island
4 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
4 Polluted Delta
//\\
// Creatures
4 Aquamoeba
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Arrogant Wurm
2 Wonder 3U
2 Waterfront Bouncer

4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
4 Circular Logic
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
2 Deep Analysis
1 Mana Crypt

// Sideboard
2 Waterfront Bouncer
3 Null Rod
3 Energy Flux
3 Naturalize
4 Root Maze

It might not be the optimal build. But feel free to comment it.

[caMooSE]

Wow, i'm suprised this thread lived this long...

Anywho, i took this deck to SCG Syracuse and scrubbed out badly. I just got very very bad draws which i think was due to my poor shuffling habits and old card cases (cards tend to stick together in piles). I had quite a bit of fun though, it was more experience than anything. I don't remember much at all...other than losing.

I do remember one thing. Every time i drew a Circular Logic, i wished it was a daze. The first few turns are just soooo important, you really need the counter to back yourself up, tempo loss or not.

Oh, and i hated bouncer. He was far too slow to do much of anything. I don't know what I would have replaced him with, but i do know he would have been replaced.

The Portal card mentioned wouldn't be so hot. Madness triggers only work when the card is discarded from your hand, and the only flashback cards are the Deeps. It would be better in a threshold deck like Bird....whatever.

So, in conclusion, when you go to a big tournament, spend the extra 8 bucks or whatever and get new cases.