Helldozer

[Savia]

From www.playravnica.com:

Helldozer
3BBB
Creature- Zombie Giant
Rare

BBB, tap: Destroy target land. If that land is nonbasic, untap Helldozer.

Sometimes you go to hell, and sometimes hell comes to you.

Illus. ?
???/306

[River Boa]

It is 4/4 i think.
Lets see, you bring out an overcosted 4/4 spend BBB each turn for around 6 turns and then your opponent won't have any mana.
Slow, nay galcial.

[PhyrexianSurvivor]

It's 6/5. :3::b::b::b: is quite reasonable for a non legendary 6/5 with no drawback and a good ability.

[River Boa]

It's 6/5. :3::b::b::b: is quite reasonable for a non legendary 6/5 with no drawback and a good ability.

My mistake, and its better stats make quite a difference.:p
But the ability really doesn't do much by the time you get it out.:(
Gleancrawler is much better.:)

[Fire of Filth]

I like it, it may even find itself in Zombie decks or in Stacks...

:r: of :b:

[Aricanius]

The flavour screams for it to have trample. I love the card but I don't think it has potential for use (or abuse). The signets might have something to say about that though.

[GenericKen]

The ability is important vs a control matchup. Makes him somewhat well rounded, but then you gotta put him up against kokusho, who's hard to argue with.

[Sibtiger]

I dunno, this guy may not have evasion, but the ability to destroy up to two lands a turn AND attack is very very good. Control decks like their land (and most decks will be running a fair bit of non-basics) so the ability will be very relevant. If nothing, this will see play in block.

[dark_knight_307]

^^Yes, and with all of these crazy 3 color Control decks out there running more than 1/2 of there lands to be nonbasic, this guy may see some play.

[TrainedChicken]

I think that one thing all the t2 threads have been talking about is how easy it will be to build 3+ color decks- and all of them are using the new weird lands and stretching their manabase as thin as one of those latex condoms you kids can get in the dime store these days. Helldozer may not be the answer to the hose (I'm thinking Blood Moon myself), but it will certainly be a house if you can put it out in a timely fashion and keep it protected.

[Snake Pliskan]

I myself have wondered why they didn't just put Dwarven Miner back in the base set. There has to be some big penalty for having any color mana you want and I don't really see Back to Basics or Price of Progress happening.

[GenericKen]

They didn't put dwarven miner in the base set because they want people spending stupid money on rare lands (ostensively, because "multi-color is fun").

[TrainedChicken]

big dollar cards are only an issue in the secondary market- which Wizards stays out of. I think putting Miner up un the main set would be a fine choice. Maybe we will see it in 10th.

[XgEvangelist]

big dollar cards are only an issue in the secondary market- which Wizards stays out of. I think putting Miner up un the main set would be a fine choice. Maybe we will see it in 10th.

Trained Chicken, think about what you just said.

It all trickles down.

People buy cards from singles dealers, dealers make money.
Dealers make more money when cards cost more.
Dealers buy singles/packs.
If packs they buy them from a distributor.
If singles they get them from other people who got them from packs which got them from a distributor.

Where do you think the distributors get there cards?

in other words, the more singles dealers in the secondary market sell, the more money wizards gets because with more costly rares they are able to expand there inventory and sell more. to expand there inventory they themselves have to buy more.

Let's not forget about all the casual players who have no idea you can buy singles or don't care to who spend $$$ on lots and lots of packs just to get a specific rare, if they really like those rare lands they might not want them if they get slapped with anti-nonbasic cards up the butt all day.

[TrainedChicken]

I do not believe that a primary design concern is how a particular card reprinted in a set, provided it's not on the reserve list, will affect the secondary market.

[XgEvangelist]

are you blind? $ makes the world go round, of COURSE it's a primary design concern, i wouldn't be surprised if it's one of the top 3.

do you think they spend so much time balancing the game because they want us to enjoy it? no, they spend so much time on r&d so that they keep there player pool and alllow it to expand, unbalanced sets scare off players, how many people quit t2 cause of affinity?

Do you realize how many players would stop playing the game if they just let any old card through because the players felt it was "unfair" and if they stop playing the game that's a major loss of profits.

[TrainedChicken]

See any black helicopters lately...? The reason I believe it is not a primary concern is that it would be a violation of federal antitrust laws for them to take into consideration the secondary market, and I think more highly of them than that. While they may decide some things on these merits, I doubt it's written about, or even discussed.

[XgEvangelist]

As much as i don't want to get into a political argument, how is it a violation of anti-trust to want to keep your market happy?

There not raising prices indecently. There not forcing you to buy multiple products just to get one. There preventing the reduction and stimulating the growth of there market. that's all fair.

[TrainedChicken]

Okay, I give, they keep Dwarven Miner out so that people will like playing more. I don't wanna argue about it.

[XgEvangelist]

well sorry, but you got to be realistic. This isn't a rembrant painting. :(

[TrainedChicken]

No, but this thread has degenerated into a Monet. Due in part to me. Sorry.



Now, helldozer; discuss!

[XgEvangelist]

Monet Lol, good one :P

Helldozer takes a large amount of black to use over and over again, and i honestly think as nice as he is against control by the time he hits play he won't be very effective, and he requires a good amount of escrow. That's even assuming you can keep him in play that long.

It's no kiki-titan where you lose 4 lands minimum.

Plus his ability is very black heavy, honestly if you do play him it's better (and you'll probably find yourself) just to kill one non-basic each turn and swing rather then kill a second and swing.

Oh yeah, and in the decks that can run this miyojin of nights reach is usually more devastating against control.

[Snake Pliskan]

Lets argue about Dwarven Miner some more. I don't think it would render multi color dex unplayable by any means, it would just be something you have to take into consideration when playing a deck full of nonbasics.

This is more interesting than talking about Helldozer, since that card is pretty close to being unplayable in constructed.

[GenericKen]

He's not unplayable. He's a 6/5 for 6 mana, which is perfectly respectable.

It's just that he can't hold a candle to kokusho.

[TrainedChicken]

Yeah, the other thing is, there are plenty of cards that hose nonbasics, Miner just has the best art.

[Snake Pliskan]

that's like saying Craw wurm is respectable in constructed,

not holding a candle to kokusho = unplayable

[XgEvangelist]

I have to agree there, lol