Worst Planeswalker

[OmegaLegacy]

What's the worst planeswalker in Standard right now? Regular Chandra?

What about in all formats? Regular Chandra, too, maybe?

What do you guys think?

The best planeswalker is obvious, so no point even discussing that one...

[Nick 30075]

Probably one of the Chandras, but Ablaze gets even less love than Nalaar.

[oldyeler59]

The worst Plansewalker in the Standard enviroment is Jace the Mindsculptor. I mean seriously who plays that guy? He dies to a kicked Burst Lightning, so lame.

Sarcasm of course, Its probably Sarkhan the Mad, i haven't seen him played in a while plus he has no way of upping his loyalty, unless you built some fun proliferate deck around him. Nissa's pretty bad, but only because she really belongs in one kind of deck.

[OmegaLegacy]

There are some anti-meta control decks that use Sarkhan. Combining Mark of Mutiny with him to Remove any opposing creature and get a big token out of the deal is scary. Also, combining Mind Sculptor with him lets you stick a land on the top of your library each turn before using Sarkhan's first effect to give you an extra land from your library each turn for free.

Nissa may only be good in Elves, but Elves is Tier Two right now and she's a staple in it. Not only that, but Vampires just came back into style and Elves beats Vampires, so Elves may be resurging in a month or two...

Does Chandra Ablaze really get used less than regular Chandra? That's sad. Ablaze can be really awesome sometimes.

I was out of Magic for a while starting just after Lorwyn and ending just before Scars. How good were Nicol Bolas and the original Sarkhan?

[greg9381]

Sarkhan Vol certainly saw some play; he was pretty good. I don't know about Nicol Bolas, though. He showed up in a few control decks, but not many. (I wasn't playing competitively around that time, just casually at FNM, so I'm not totally sure)

[dlcnate1]

chandra ablaze costs too much to really see play, but really, i think the worst is liliana, because although she can make your opponent discard, her tutor loses to jace's fateseal, and her ultimate loses to Vengevine hate

[Zinc6c12]

In standard Chandra Ablaze, in everything Chandra Ablaze. Let's just assume that the only formats that these cards really see play in are standard or edh (yes, jace an exception)
Liliana gets used as a 1-2 of in occasional black decks and can do something...even though she's not too great. Very decent in EDH
Sarkhan the Mad has been on and off played for a while so he's done something, I guess there's a place for him in EDH
Nicol Bolas was played a tiny bit, but even though he's expensive he's still good, great in EDH
Chandra Nalaar has also seen the tiniest bit of play mostly to deal with baneslayers at one point, still acceptable edh

[Fate Stitcher]

In standard Chandra Ablaze, in everything Chandra Ablaze. Let's just assume that the only formats that these cards really see play in are standard or edh (yes, jace an exception)
Liliana gets used as a 1-2 of in occasional black decks and can do something...even though she's not too great. Very decent in EDH
Sarkhan the Mad has been on and off played for a while so he's done something, I guess there's a place for him in EDH
Nicol Bolas was played a tiny bit, but even though he's expensive he's still good, great in EDH
Chandra Nalaar has also seen the tiniest bit of play mostly to deal with baneslayers at one point, still acceptable edh

I agree with most of this, and would like to add that Ablaze is actually alright in EDH when you are building on a budget.

[Neighbor]

Chandra Ablaze is the worst. Usually when you play a 6 drop in standard your opponent is limited to 1 or 2 more turns. Primeval Titan, Grave Titan, etc. However Chandra Ablaze just doesn't seem to do this...

[Kairi]

for a 6 cc planeswalker, Chandra Ablaze is defintly terrible. but honestly nissa is pretty terrible except for one tier 2 deck that uses her.
but who am i kidding, that dude, ummm JTMS, hes the worst lol

[Catmurderer]

I always thought Sorin Markov was the worst planeswalker.

Costs waaay too much

[fallenonme]

Eh, I wouldn't mind him as a 1 or 2 of in a MBC deck, mostly because I love his +2, and his -3 is quite useful sometimes. I've had him in a deck or two, and I didn't mind him too much, although I rarely used his final I admit.

[OmegaLegacy]

I've seen Sorin used with moderate success every now and then. I don't think he's TOO bad, but he's definitely not very good. He'll probably suck more once black gets a decent planeswalker.

[thegreatorange]

The great planeswalkers
Blue - Jace, The House Payment ; Tezzeret the Seeker
White - Elspeth, Knight-Errant ; Gideon Jura
Green - Garruk Wildspeaker
Black -
Red - Koth
Gold- Ajani Vengeant

The Ok Planeswalkers
Blue- Jace Beleren
White- Ajani Goldmane ; Elspeth Tirel
Green- Nissa Revane
Black - Sorin Markov; Liliana Vess
Red - Chandra Nalaar
Gold - Venser, the Sojourner ; Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker (because he isn't THAT bad)

The Terrible Planeswalkers
Blue -
White -
Green -
Black -
Red - Chandra Ablaze
Gold -

My vote is Chandra Ablaze i guess.

[OmegaLegacy]

Lol. Jace the House Payment. That's one of the best names I've heard for him yet. Thanks for the chart, too. It really looks about right.

[Nick 30075]

Hey, you forgot the Sarkhans.

[OmegaLegacy]

They're probably both "Ok Planeswalkers" from the sounds of it.

[Zinc6c12]

I'm pretty sure building on a budget is a disease, not a format. Both sarkhans are ok.

Sorin was like borderline playable before the titans came and wrecked his face, if black had been a good color pre-rotation he might have seen a slot or 2.
That being said, sorin is a house in EDH

[DemonicSei]

The awesome Planeswalkers

Blue - Jace, the Mind Sculptor
White - Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Green -
Black -
Red -
Gold-

The great Planeswalkers

Blue - Jace Beleren ; Tezzeret the Seeker
White - Gideon Jura
Green - Garruk Wildspeaker
Black -
Red - Koth of the Hammer
Gold- Ajani Vengeant ; Venser, the Sojourner

The OK Planeswalkers

Blue-
White- Ajani Goldmane ; Elspeth Tirel
Green- Nissa Revane
Black - Liliana Vess
Red - Chandra Nalaar
Gold - Sarkhan Vol ; Sarkhan the Mad

The Terrible Planeswalkers

Blue -
White -
Green -
Black - Sorin Markov
Red - Chandra Ablaze
Gold - Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker (good, but too hard to put on table)

My vote is Sorin Markov for his high mana cost and because all his abilities can be shut down by one single card : Leyline of Sanctity and black really has a hard time with Enchantments!

PS: I agree that Chandra Ablaze is bad... but there is a nice combo with her and Magma Phoenix.

[dlcnate1]

chandra ablaze in EDH is good when you have a Squee, Goblin Nabob in hand and in an edh game i used Wargate to put Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker on the field more than once

[fallenonme]

Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker is sideboard in my Legacy Dream Halls deck when I face something that has cards like Solitary Confinement as I can't get rid of it once it comes out otherwise.

[Shadow_Seraph]

The awesome Planeswalkers

Blue - Jace, the Mind Sculptor
White - Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Green -
Black -
Red -
Gold-

The great Planeswalkers

Blue - Jace Beleren ; Tezzeret the Seeker
White - Gideon Jura
Green - Garruk Wildspeaker
Black -
Red - Koth of the Hammer
Gold- Ajani Vengeant ; Venser, the Sojourner

The OK Planeswalkers

Blue-
White- Ajani Goldmane ; Elspeth Tirel
Green- Nissa Revane
Black - Liliana Vess
Red - Chandra Nalaar
Gold - Sarkhan Vol ; Sarkhan the Mad

The Terrible Planeswalkers

Blue -
White -
Green -
Black - Sorin Markov
Red - Chandra Ablaze
Gold - Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker (good, but too hard to put on table)

I'm inclined to agree with this, except that I disagree with your assessment of Sorin Markov. I'd call him 'Ok'. He's pretty powerful overall, and basically wins you the control matchup if it sticks...

[Fate Stitcher]

I'm pretty sure building on a budget is a disease, not a format. Both sarkhans are ok.

Sorin was like borderline playable before the titans came and wrecked his face, if black had been a good color pre-rotation he might have seen a slot or 2.
That being said, sorin is a house in EDH

Being a **** is a disease too, unfortunately it is a virus and can only be cured when the afflicted realizes his head is up his ***.

That being said, EDH is a two-sided coin, there are people who play with shoe-box decks and then there is the other side of the coin where people pour hundreds of dollars into decks. Shoebox decks are not a 'disease', and can in fact generate just as much fun as playing with expensive decks. And we can all agree that the core of EDH is having fun.

[Averus]

Being a **** is a disease too, unfortunately it is a virus and can only be cured when the afflicted realizes his head is up his ***.

That being said, EDH is a two-sided coin, there are people who play with shoe-box decks and then there is the other side of the coin where people pour hundreds of dollars into decks. Shoebox decks are not a 'disease', and can in fact generate just as much fun as playing with expensive decks. And we can all agree that the core of EDH is having fun.

Tell that to the the people who have signed/double foil/from the vault garbage oozing out the sides of their EDH decks.

I jest, but I find that EDH is either extremely fun or extremely horrendous to play, depending on your opponent/s and their outlook on the format.

More to the point of the planeswalker debate, there are some things I will say, including that just because a planeswalker isn't good in the current meta does not mean that it is not a good card. I'll cite Elspeth 2.0 on this one. She has a high mana cost attached, yes, but I'd certainly pay 5 for her abilities. Now, granted, she's not so relevant at the moment, at least in standard, but when the meta changes with the release of Besieged, I think she'll see more play.

The same goes with Venser. He's a house in extended control decks with evoke creatures/Sun Titan/Reveillark. Again, not to relevant in standard, but again, huge potential as the meta changes.

I categorize the planeswalkers like this:

*Planeswalkers that are playable beyond reasonable doubt:
- Elspeth, Knight-Errant
- Jace, the Mind Sculptor
- Gideon Jura
- Jace Beleren
- Garruk Wildspeaker
- Nissa Revane (The fact that she's centric doesn't make her any less playable. She's a house where she fits. Also, try making an elf deck without her.)
- Tezzeret the Seeker (Anyone remember Tezzerator?)
- Koth of the Hammer (Again, Centric, but very, very good.)
- Ajani Vengeant (The best multicolored planeswalker IMO)

*Good Planeswalkers that don't see much play for various reasons, including unfitting meta/lack of love:
- Elspeth Tirel
- Sarkhan Vol (positively brilliant in some formats, but never found a good home.)
- Sarkhan the Mad (I think we may see more of him soon. People forget he exists.)
- Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker (Totally worth his high cost, but hard to get on the field outside legacy/EDH)
- Venser, the Sojourner

*Acceptable Planeswalkers (almost worth their cost, but not quite)
- Liliana Vess
- Sorin Markov
- Ajani Goldmane (has a home in white tokens, but is just shy of the line IMO. Feel free to disagree on that one.)
- Chandra Nalaar (Pre-WW Planeswalker Control. Anyone remember?)

*Totally not worth their cost planeswalkers
- Chandra Ablaze (Admit it. You'd laugh if someone put her on the table in front of you. Totally not worth her mana cost in abilities. Perhaps a 4 drop version of her would be slightly better, but the problem is that her abilities are too situational, and... well... not very good.

Don't think I'm leaving anyone out. Chandra is easily the worst planeswalker, but like I said, I mainly contest thoughts about the ones hovering around the middle.

[rancidben]

Chandra Ablaze is IMO the most unplayable Walker. Elspeth Tirel is the most UNDERRATED Walker and my favorite at that. So many people only look at her nuke ability and assume that if your playing a creature based deck... you should not be running her... ignorance :rolleyes: Her other 2 abilities are just as awesome. She is built for creature based decks if you ask me.

[Agrrotactics]

Nissa is overrated Elf ball is the only way to play elves, she doesn't even fit that strategy. Shes what standard has to work with that doesn't make her good. It just makes elves desperate in standard. If you played Elfball, G/B rock elves, or G/W elfball you know I'm right. I love my stupid kid decks from time to time but you have to know when its just not going to work. Even Matt Nass has abandoned her.

Overall Chandra Ablaze is still the worst though for being 6 mana. I tried making her good with Punishing Fire at one point and I think that was as good as she gets which isn't saying much. Try making her good it doesn't pan out.

[Dio_landa]

I will only make 3 tiers for this

-God Tier-
Koth of the Hammer, if you got over 10 mountain in your deck, he is a must
Jace, the Mind Sculptor, fits in over 90% of every deck that has blue
Elspeth Tirel, creature heavy and Token Heavy deck, but totally worth it
Gideon Jura, +2 is a great Fog, -2 is assassination, and he becomes a 6/6 creature that cannot take damage.
Garruk Wildspeaker, can ramp, make a beast or Overrun
Elspeth, Knight-Errant

-Good tier-
Jace Beleren, not a game changer, but awesome
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, in chris hiyashi 4 color control, he fits perfectly, also a very possible turn 3 Nicol Bolas is very beast.
Sarkhan the Mad, Sarkhan Vol, they are both very useful, giving creatures +1+1 and haste, taking creature or making dragons, while Sarkhan the Mad, it can make Baneslayer Angel into a dragon, oh the irony!
Nissa Revane, great with elves
Liliana Vess
Sorin Markov

-don't play tier-
Chandras, both. they are utterly useless in any red deck.

[Averus]

Nissa is overrated Elf ball is the only way to play elves, she doesn't even fit that strategy. Shes what standard has to work with that doesn't make her good. It just makes elves desperate in standard. If you played Elfball, G/B rock elves, or G/W elfball you know I'm right. I love my stupid kid decks from time to time but you have to know when its just not going to work. Even Matt Nass has abandoned her.


I wish Glimpse of Nature was in standard too, but it's not, now is it?

I'm pretty sure Nissa/Monument made an impact somewhere around Zendikar... could be wrong, but... no... pretty sure people got pretty excited about that.

I hardly think that for a four drop her abilities are over rated. Just because she's not Nettle Sentinel doesn't mean that she isn't a good planeswalker.

[Refined_Authority21]

I think the worst planeswalker is the same as the best.

what makes him the best, also makes him the worst.

His Cost

JTMS ftWinLoss

this is supposed to be a game, not a secondary market of commodities subject to supply and demand.

I would rather have every other card in print be more expensive, if it meant jace2 dropped to $20

His cost is absolutely unacceptable.

this is my serious face >:~(

[surtysurt]

Tell that to the the people who have signed/double foil/from the vault garbage oozing out the sides of their EDH decks.

I jest, but I find that EDH is either extremely fun or extremely horrendous to play, depending on your opponent/s and their outlook on the format.

More to the point of the planeswalker debate, there are some things I will say, including that just because a planeswalker isn't good in the current meta does not mean that it is not a good card. I'll cite Elspeth 2.0 on this one. She has a high mana cost attached, yes, but I'd certainly pay 5 for her abilities. Now, granted, she's not so relevant at the moment, at least in standard, but when the meta changes with the release of Besieged, I think she'll see more play.

The same goes with Venser. He's a house in extended control decks with evoke creatures/Sun Titan/Reveillark. Again, not to relevant in standard, but again, huge potential as the meta changes.

I categorize the planeswalkers like this:

*Planeswalkers that are playable beyond reasonable doubt:
- Elspeth, Knight-Errant
- Jace, the Mind Sculptor
- Gideon Jura
- Jace Beleren
- Garruk Wildspeaker
- Nissa Revane (The fact that she's centric doesn't make her any less playable. She's a house where she fits. Also, try making an elf deck without her.)
- Tezzeret the Seeker (Anyone remember Tezzerator?)
- Koth of the Hammer (Again, Centric, but very, very good.)
- Ajani Vengeant (The best multicolored planeswalker IMO)

*Good Planeswalkers that don't see much play for various reasons, including unfitting meta/lack of love:
- Elspeth Tirel
- Sarkhan Vol (positively brilliant in some formats, but never found a good home.)
- Sarkhan the Mad (I think we may see more of him soon. People forget he exists.)
- Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker (Totally worth his high cost, but hard to get on the field outside legacy/EDH)
- Venser, the Sojourner

*Acceptable Planeswalkers (almost worth their cost, but not quite)
- Liliana Vess
- Sorin Markov
- Ajani Goldmane (has a home in white tokens, but is just shy of the line IMO. Feel free to disagree on that one.)
- Chandra Nalaar (Pre-WW Planeswalker Control. Anyone remember?)

*Totally not worth their cost planeswalkers
- Chandra Ablaze (Admit it. You'd laugh if someone put her on the table in front of you. Totally not worth her mana cost in abilities. Perhaps a 4 drop version of her would be slightly better, but the problem is that her abilities are too situational, and... well... not very good.

Don't think I'm leaving anyone out. Chandra is easily the worst planeswalker, but like I said, I mainly contest thoughts about the ones hovering around the middle.
people are definitely not playing any nissas in the current standard elf decks. I agree with all other points tho. nissa is just really really meh when you can be accelerating into a wave or spam Overrun
worst planeswalker would have to be Sorin because he is only useful in the control matchup/mirror against colors that don't deal damage

[OmegaLegacy]

Jace, the Mind Sculptor costs so much because every single one of his effects is broken. I have a four set of them which I happily use in my U/B Trinket Control, but even I believe that they should be limited to two (along with Primeval Titan).

I have to agree that Elspeth Tirel might be a little underrated, though. My secondary deck is a mono-white Knights/Allies hybrid that I recently put a couple of Elspeths in. Against a well-built Elf deck, I actually managed to sweep the field with Elspeth while keeping my own creatures safe with two Knight Exemplar. So many sad little elves... it was awesome. Extra funny considering he was at 37 life from two Condemns during a massive wave attack from him a few turns ago. He lost a few turns after the successful Elspeth sweep.

[maxhanuman]

Chandra Ablaze isn't a terrible card. The problem is that she's designed to be playable only in a very narrow deck (like Nissa, etc...) and that deck doesn't even get close to 'there' in standard. If you took a handful of unexceptional nonstandard cards and reprinted them, her deck would be an entertaining tier 2. She does cost a lot, that's true. It just means that she demands that you play red ramp spells. We have ONE of those in standard right now. She also lets you pitch them when they are dead later, and generate mana from the grave. If you have the deck that is built around her, she hoses control decks all by herself - like a resolved Nicol Bolas.

The worst planeswalker is one that isn't a 'build-around-me' card, it's Liliana Vess. A planeswalkers drawdown ability should be good enough that you get value even if they immediately die. Garruk makes a beast. Baby Jace draws a card. Chandra Nalaar kills something. Liliana does not get there. If she was a flat-out Diabolic Tutor, she might see some play.

[cburton]

Actually, Diabolic Tutor has been seen in one of the best players I know mono black control list. And he top 8'ed at states with it. So the card does see play.

Secondly, Nissa is being played in the elf decks. First you wave. Then you sac the Nissa's Chosen to the monument. Then you win. If you don't you find a Nissa's Chosen. It's called a winning combo that is very likely to happen.

As for Chandra Nalaar, She's great in a Grixis, or R/B control deck because she is great spot removal, and forces the opponent to deal with her, or she'll explode.

As for Sorrin, he as well is excellent removal, Life gain, and He can change the game completely (by setting your opponents life to 10).

Lastly, Chandra Ablaze, (as she's really the only other planeswalker being considered for this debate). She gets my vote. She doesn't really do a whole lot, But if you can somehow get her ultimate off. You've probably just won a game, and made someone very embarrassed that they lost to her. Just sayin...


P.S. as for everyone hatin' on Jace, the Genie, He's wonderful. He does everything and more for what you want out of a planeswalker, And if WoTC made more 4cc planeswalkers with as much versatility as him, more decks than just "blue" could be using amazing planeswalkers. I think Sarkhan at 5cc is probably the next best though. He has the card advantage Jace does, and he can win you the game as well (I hear 5/5 dragons are hard to deal with). Hopefully the new BU Tezzeret will be just as broken as Jace.

[Averus]

people are definitely not playing any nissas in the current standard elf decks. I agree with all other points tho. nissa is just really really meh when you can be accelerating into a wave or spam Overrun
worst planeswalker would have to be Sorin because he is only useful in the control matchup/mirror against colors that don't deal damage

http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=721734
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=701800
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=698852
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=698824
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=698754


Please, I beg you. Do your research before you start making statements about what is and what isn't being played. Above are five links to some of the highest placing elf decks since SOM. All of them are running Nissa Revane. Please don't judge whether a card is or isn't being played based only on your meta. (edited for bad link)

Mind you now, this is not the Elf-Vine deck which is a totally different deck with a totally different placing history in which Nissa is NOT run for a reason. Granted, some builds do, but most you won't find it.

Now regardless, I say it again. Even if she was played in every elf deck from now until the end of standard or none at all, her abilities for her mana cost make her a very good investment. No, she's not Glimpse of Nature on a planeswalker, but she's far from debatable in her playability in popular elf builds.

[siowy]

chandra ablaze is the worst.

Sorin Markov is great or terrible depending on the creatures run in the metagame(if any). if the 2 damage is able to take out creatures, he's genius. else he's just goopy when he's staring down a Sprouting Thrinax.

nissa is fun and flavourful, but there hasn't been enough supporting cards to make her great. (a two mana +1/+1 elf lord might be some help)

[vger]

Definitely Chandra Ablaze. The others are rather playable on their own, while some absolutely require the right kind of build or meta to shine.

I suddenly recall there was a time when I was debating with people how Nissa Revane wasn't really the worst PW in Magic and how Chandra Ablaze might be so much worse than Nissa. Instead I was being criticised for my opinions.

How funny times have changed now.

[exprezso]

While I agree 'both' Chandra's (especially Ablaze.. I prefer the 2nd ability to the first tho) are unplayable, I do wonder why after 4 pages, not a single mention of Koth?? He shld be on the 'OK' list, alongside Nissa!

Edit: Nvm, I'm blind..

[greg9381]

Actually, Diabolic Tutor has been seen in one of the best players I know mono black control list. And he top 8'ed at states with it. So the card does see play.

True, but he's saying that Lilliana would be more popular if her second ability was a Diabolic Tutor. It's not.

[cburton]

True, but he's saying that Lilliana would be more popular if her second ability was a Diabolic Tutor. It's not.


Ah I understood it as saying she should be replaced in Black decks for tutor.

[Agrrotactics]

Thing is I myself support Nissa myself when I first saw here. At the time I think she was what elves had to use. Now between vengevines, Ezuri, amd Genesis Wave shes a weak strategy now. In the long haul Garruk has just shown himself to be the better Nissa anyway. So what is there left for her to do for elves really?

@Averus
Those are states and Game day events. Your not going to fully understand this until you travel but that doesn't make elves a good deck. Those tournaments have a host of decks entering a new environment, making results very varied from what will really happen at higher level tournaments when the meta game becomes clear. Congrats to them for winning its not easy, but the fields those tournaments are usually subpar. Hey elves is a fun no doubt about that, and the deck just goes off. But honestly in my experience with elves that's usually the opponents fault for allowing something to go through or poor mulls.

yes Kuldotha Red won a states that doesn't make it a good deck either I've realized It really means the deck has potential. I just enjoy the deck and love beating up people with dumb decks once in a while. Same goes for Elves.

She's not the worst planeswalker but she doesn't make it on my OK radar anymore. I'm not biased against Elves I'm just a real cutthroat spike player with a johnny love for aggro decks.

[OmegaLegacy]

I don't think Nissa's great, but to say she's not even ok is to seriously underestimate her. I know when I play against a friend's mono-green Elf deck with my U/B control deck, Nissa is one of the more annoying cards in their deck. Spawning free creatures is annoying, especially when she can do so while actually increasing her counters, and when more creatures means more Overrun. It's not like you can only use Garruk OR Nissa. You can clearly use both, if you want. Especially if you can't get your hands on enough Vengevines.

[cburton]

lol. I still think that the worse planeswalker it the Ablaze. I think that I classify planeswalkers as followed:

Planeswalker who are Good: One's who can protect themselves, win the game, or Change the tide of the game.

Planeswalkers who are decent: Ones who fit in certain deck builds, or needed to build around to make them worthwile.

Planeswalkers who are bad: Ones who's ability does absolutely nothing to change the game or to push the tide in your favor.

[cburton]

maybe if Chandra's + Ability was that both players discard then draw 3 cards, so that you could dump your red spells...and MAYBE if she costed 5...then that would be playable.

[surtysurt]

http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=721734
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=701800
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=698852
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=698824
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=698754


Please, I beg you. Do your research before you start making statements about what is and what isn't being played. Above are five links to some of the highest placing elf decks since SOM. All of them are running Nissa Revane. Please don't judge whether a card is or isn't being played based only on your meta. (edited for bad link)

Mind you now, this is not the Elf-Vine deck which is a totally different deck with a totally different placing history in which Nissa is NOT run for a reason. Granted, some builds do, but most you won't find it.

Now regardless, I say it again. Even if she was played in every elf deck from now until the end of standard or none at all, her abilities for her mana cost make her a very good investment. No, she's not Glimpse of Nature on a planeswalker, but she's far from debatable in her playability in popular elf builds.
yeah in random parts of the country... only 1/6 green decks at worlds included her I have to say i am not impressed

[cburton]

You don't have to be. The fact that even 1/6th of the pro players in the world play nissa shows that she is not the worse planeswalker, nor useless. Show me when even 1/10th the players at worlds played Chandra Ablaze.

[OmegaLegacy]

If we applied surtysurt's logic generally, then every deck that isn't used by at least 1/6 of all Worlds players is a useless deck. Then, since 2/3 of the Standard decks there were Valakut and most of the rest were Vampires or U/W control, I guess U/B control, Eldrazi Green, Boros landfall, RDW, RUG, BUG, and all variations of Quest are unimpressive and more or less useless.

[surtysurt]

sorry the point i was trying to get across was that she isnt a staple in elves or eldrazi green decks. shes not bad just slower than other strategies. Chandra Ablaze is definitely the worst investment of a deck slot

[OmegaLegacy]

Fair enough.

[Slagwurm]

Regular chandra isn't bad at all. It sees play in 'big red' decks all the time.

Her ablaze version on the other hand is terrible. It's way too expensive.

I'm surprised noone has mentioned Ajani Goldmane. It's middle ability is nice but its first and final are largely useless; 2 life or a big creature with zero protection, whoop-dee-doo.

If I had to put the worst three in order starting from the worst, id say Ajani Goldmane > Chandra Ablaze > Liliana Vess. Nissa could have been third but at least she can protect herself with her chosen; liliana's stuff can be more hurtful than helpful sometimes (i discard Vengevine lulz).

[frostbite907]

Vess, does anyone ever run her?

[vger]

A card's playability value can vary from time to time. For example, let's view BSA. There was a time where people could say it was the one of the best creatures in standard, played 4 copies of it in UW control back in Lorwyn and even in extended. But then its playability has fallen now and the same bunch of people are also criticising it. It appears funny to me everytime this kind of thing happens. I rather evaluate cards based on their potential which is more of a fairer assessment, rather than how many decks/slots they can fit in one particular metagame. This is because every format can vary and some cards would be better than others depending on the meta. And to conclude one card's playability sucks when it used to be good in a previous meta, really isn't doing those cards justice. But meanwhile, Chandra Ablaze just isn't and won't be doing enough in my books.


Regular chandra isn't bad at all. It sees play in 'big red' decks all the time.

Her ablaze version on the other hand is terrible. It's way too expensive.

I'm surprised noone has mentioned Ajani Goldmane. It's middle ability is nice but its first and final are largely useless; 2 life or a big creature with zero protection, whoop-dee-doo.

If I had to put the worst three in order starting from the worst, id say Ajani Goldmane > Chandra Ablaze > Liliana Vess. Nissa could have been third but at least she can protect herself with her chosen; liliana's stuff can be more hurtful than helpful sometimes (i discard Vengevine lulz).

Let's not forget Lorwyn-SOA standard, where Ajani Goldmane is played in BW tokens. This is clearly an example where some cards do shine in one particular meta and won't be doing much in another.

[Averus]

yeah in random parts of the country... only 1/6 green decks at worlds included her I have to say i am not impressed

Random parts of the country happen to be where the some of the largest tournaments are held. Also, I'm not suprised 1/6th of the green decks you saw were running her. Why would Eldrazi Green or Turboland run Nissa Revane? And even if you had meant to say "Elf Decks" instead of Green, just the fact that she's seeing play in worlds is totally counter to your argument against her playability.

You've made it clear that you don't understand what you're talking about and have no intention of trying to. I'm done trying to convince you. You need to learn why you're wrong on your own.

[Dio_landa]

While I agree 'both' Chandra's (especially Ablaze.. I prefer the 2nd ability to the first tho) are unplayable, I do wonder why after 4 pages, not a single mention of Koth?? He shld be on the 'OK' list, alongside Nissa!

Edit: Nvm, I'm blind..

i was about to say..........:mad:
Koth is the Red Jace...almost, he might not have control over library, but ramping and blow up is INSANE.


Vess, does anyone ever run her?

1 on a deck is normal, as a 5 cost tutor that stays on the field and can do more than just tutor once her job is done, I know tutor fails against Jace TMS, but in Extended, Vess is useful.

[Loan Wulf]

Vess was useful for a second in standard with the coolest deck.

It ran Brilliant Ultimatum and Vess. Vess would put a Raze on top then BOOM.

I would have to repeat what has been said repeatedly, Chandra Ablaze is the worst planeswalker without a doubt.

[OmegaLegacy]

Vess can be annoying in the right deck every now and then, but pretty much only as a one of.

Actually, at my last 1k, I lost game two of the last round of a tournament to some weird mono-black vampires with black control elements that used Liliana's ultimate on me. Apparently, the guy had tweaked his deck specifically to beat his friend's U/B control deck which was similar to mine, so he had weird crap like Vess in his deck specifically for the match-up. I still feel weird about it, but it seemed like his deck worked fine... at least in the U/B match-up.

[Ryan Williamso]

Nissa is probably the worst just because she is the least versatile.

[master imp25]

i agree with ryan but i also think that sorin is pretty low because he cost so much and his final is all that great i think sarkhan is a great planewalker tho he make ragons