best deck post rotation

[affinityplaya]

what do you guys think will be the best deck post rotation? i know some people think ext is the most balanced but whatd o you guys suggest for being the best deck? affinity iron works scepter chant? what decks do you think will die? comments and ideas appreciated

[Rhino408]

Well just like your name I too will be an affinityplaya next ext season as it is very strong and probably the greatest Spike deck of all time.

Reborn of Slide and Wake will be seen. Many combo decks will depart to the afterlife. I don't see Scepter-Chant as combo, but more of a lock.

Madness will be played less and less due to it's loss of Daze and E. Flux and Chill which was vital to it's success vs the other agro decks which are clearly faster than they are.

[affinityplaya]

Well just like your name I too will be an affinityplaya next ext season as it is very strong and probably the greatest Spike deck of all time.

Reborn of Slide and Wake will be seen. Many combo decks will depart to the afterlife. I don't see Scepter-Chant as combo, but more of a lock.

Madness will be played less and less due to it's loss of Daze and E. Flux and Chill which was vital to it's success vs the other agro decks which are clearly faster than they are.


yeah and even though you dont' agree that whit card might be the new flux but not neccesarily , anyway since its banned from t2 ravagers will be very cheap which is amazing since you can get a tier one ext deck for less then a hundred most likely.:eek:

[Rhino408]

Well the thing is E. Flux doesn't necessarily shut us down so a half of a Flux isn't much better. Also WW will not be that strong and most other white decks don't need it because they have WoG.

[darkmindtone]

If you go by what is doing well online, and use common sense, the Top 4 decks post rotation will be:

Affinity

then (not in any order)

Rock
Goblins
Tooth And Nail

Other decks that will slightly less played are R/G Beats, Storm Combo (both Tendrils and Desire), Cephalid Combo, and Balancing 'Tings.

Control decks will struggle to keep up with the assault of aggro decks, the disruption of Rock, and the sheer power of Tooth and Nail. In addition, with the printing of Pithing Needle, Tog and Scepter take a HUGE blow, even though they wern't going to dominate as it is. Wake and Slide suffer from not being able to cover all the bases mentioned earlier.

Other decks that have the possibility, but will not likely succeed at the same level as the others are Madness, KCI, MBC, and various rogue decks (Domain, etc.).

[LordOfWei]

You forgot Scepter-Chant.

The rock beats all of the decks you listed, so why not put it as the top deck? I think it will be.

Domain is also very underrated. A turn three Collective Restraint for four (five the next turn) stops affinity and goblins dead. It can alos play Overgrown Estate to gain back the life lost. I don't think it's tier one, but it's certainly competitive.

[darkmindtone]

You forgot Scepter-Chant.

The rock beats all of the decks you listed, so why not put it as the top deck? I think it will be.



I didn't forget Scepter Chant (I mention it when talking about the other control decks). I would have put it higher, but every color now has an answer for 1 colorless that will be heavily sideboarded in Pithing Needle. Rock is good, and keeps up with Aggro quite well, but not so well vs. Tooth and Nail despite what people may think by just looking over decklists. I've playtested around thirty games so far of the Tooth vs. Rock and Tooth wins at least 75% of both pre and post sideboard games. And I don't playtest vs. scrubs either. And my testing partner plays a version with maindeck 4 Therepy, 3 Duress, as well as Call, Troll, Sword, and FTK. He boards in four Extraction and 3-4 Artifact Mutation as well. Tooth simply recovers from disruption relatively quickly with Sensei's Divining Top, Eternal Witness, and topdecking better than any other deck.

[Rhino408]

Well to add to my post. The thing with Affinity is that it's arch nemesis Slide will try to stop it's Spikey power.

I'm quite fascinated with Slide actually Slide with Rift because of it's power vs Control and Agro.

[ynohtna12345]

I think cephalid breakfast will be very good post rotation because it has the quickest kills out of any deck listed. The version that i play can win turn 2 and consistently wins on turn 3 and 4. Not many decks can stick with it after it goes off because it rips apart your hand with cabal therapys. The only bad matchup it has is heavy counter decks but after sideboarding, its a piece of cake with 4 defense grids coming in.

[mafiamember]

If you go by what is doing well online, and use common sense, the Top 4 decks post rotation will be:

Affinity

then (not in any order)

Rock
Goblins
Tooth And Nail

Other decks that will slightly less played are R/G Beats, Storm Combo (both Tendrils and Desire), Cephalid Combo, and Balancing 'Tings.

Control decks will struggle to keep up with the assault of aggro decks, the disruption of Rock, and the sheer power of Tooth and Nail. In addition, with the printing of Pithing Needle, Tog and Scepter take a HUGE blow, even though they wern't going to dominate as it is. Wake and Slide suffer from not being able to cover all the bases mentioned earlier.

Other decks that have the possibility, but will not likely succeed at the same level as the others are Madness, KCI, MBC, and various rogue decks (Domain, etc.).

I doubt tooth and nail will do any good. I mean it is nowhere near as powerful as affinity was when it was the best in standard and extended will offer many more cards to own tooth and nail. Just some top decks that own TNN- affinity, rock, scepter-chant, goblins. Pretty much any decent deck beats tnn

[darkmindtone]

I doubt tooth and nail will do any good. I mean it is nowhere near as powerful as affinity was when it was the best in standard and extended will offer many more cards to own tooth and nail. Just some top decks that own TNN- affinity, rock, scepter-chant, goblins. Pretty much any decent deck beats tnn

Wow. Your attitude is exactly what happened on Magic Online months ago, when Tooth first started getting attention. Then it started putting up insane numbers, and now it is considered one of the best decks for the upcoming format. I've played the deck for well over a year in Standard, and Affinity is anything but a one-sided match for either side. Tooth and Nail survived and even thrived in a Standard featuring both Affinity and Goblins. I'm not saying it owns either, as those are strong words that should be reserved for matchups 75-80% towards either side, but Tooth can easily hold it's own.

As I mentioned earlier, Tooth is quite favored in the Rock vs. Tooth matchup due to the fact that Rock's clock is usually relatively slow, Deed is usually pointless, and unlike other combo decks Tooth can just topdeck game-winners even after the Duress/Therepy/Witness cycle has gone through. And scepter bases it's entire gameplan on locking a deck featuring targeted artifact removal, mass artifact removal, 8 spells that if resolved can fetch a land that makes key spells uncounterable, and more importantly Blinkmoth Well. Turn 2 Scrying for Blinkmoth Well puts Scepter in a position that is very far away from winning.

If you all would like, I wrote a relatively comprehensive piece on Tooth and Nail and what I'm currently doing with it for Extended here: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=433774

[Dark Light]

Don't be ashamed of believing that T&N is the deck you think will be the best Darkmindtone. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

That said I love my WGB rock and it seems to be the most constant deck vs. most matches. I wouldn't say that it is the best but after seeing the deck does just fine and possibly benefits from the SoK cycle I would have to say Rock will be one of the top contending control decks in the format.

Combo shall return. I wouldn't go so ar as to say Mind's Desire but I would try and I will work on breakibng the Enduring Ideal which seems to have some powerful potential. Earyo flipped and a Lab is game over if you can't beat them to the punch. The Ideas Unbounded looks to be something that could make any deck that need threshold to be a threat a possible deck. I am thinking that Tight sight could make a comeback in a new way.

My main thought on the best deck is, Affinity is the best and since my deck has had decent win percentages vs. it I would be able to say that WBG Rock could win and walk home but, I am making sure that rock is able to dominate on all fronts. Pithing Needle or not Rock shall stand above while all other ground is sinking sand.

[daffyduck1981]

Hey people,
could you please tell me what you think of this deck?
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=33939&Page=1
It is probably too slow for the format, so could u please help me what i could change to make it more competitive
thanks

[Dark Light]

looks fine for post rotation. I would just say that the baloth wouldn't help much. Try Teroh's Faithful, they work almost too well. GW slide has a decent chance but I just think that you have to have major art hate to deal with them. Good build, may want to include genesis to help with a Solitary Confinement.

[daffyduck1981]

ok i'll change the baloth to faithful
i don't know what card to take out to play a genesis maindeck. i'm already running 61 cards because i absolutely want those 4 chants so that i can slow down speeddecks. and i want to play 4 slides since i absolutely need them to go off. even if i play sterling grove turn 2 and sac it to get slide i won't be able to play it on turn 3. since a turn 3 slide can mean a turn 4 witness with a cycling land in hand...

[Rhino408]

baloth is still a 4/4 for 4 mana and a semi-useful sacrifice ability, it could help against any tendrils deck that may appear and it's overall good vs agro to stall for WoG.

[Dark Light]

Tendrils is probably one of the many decks that you won't have to worry about. I can't really believe that the card could do any better than a Desires.

I would say that the Groves help in fetching the all important Solitary Confinement vs. Agro decks. I would say take out the Baloth in the side for Genesis, since the card would help much more with the Confinement and recurring dead Witnesses. I want to say included the Faithful in the main deck because they are one of the single most helpful cards in Slide that can deal with Aggro. The Elders are really not there for you in most senses since they just get sac'D EoT. Try using 3 Faithful in the main with -2 elders and a Tusker. Trust me. I played Slide when it first came out and it was huge when it hit play and I got to cycle it. The Faithful is a far suprior blocker to the Elder (STK not Yavi) and he can be used over and over. try that. Also please post this in the GW Slide discussion board. Akroma would love that.

[daffyduck1981]

done! posted it to G/W thread

[DyNaStY]

Well T&N is one of the best decks, mostly because of moments peace, that allows it to beat most Beatdown decks, rock is a tight matchup, depends on the amount of disruption that the rock can dish out before T&N is able to go off.
Slide kinda sucks IMO, goblins are pretty good, UG Storm is also very good, very consistent, RG Madness is my favourite post rotation deck...
Affinitty is very good, mostly due to the lack of global artifact nuking effects, except Deed and Vengeance...

[mafiamember]

Wow. Your attitude is exactly what happened on Magic Online months ago, when Tooth first started getting attention. Then it started putting up insane numbers, and now it is considered one of the best decks for the upcoming format. I've played the deck for well over a year in Standard, and Affinity is anything but a one-sided match for either side. Tooth and Nail survived and even thrived in a Standard featuring both Affinity and Goblins. I'm not saying it owns either, as those are strong words that should be reserved for matchups 75-80% towards either side, but Tooth can easily hold it's own.

As I mentioned earlier, Tooth is quite favored in the Rock vs. Tooth matchup due to the fact that Rock's clock is usually relatively slow, Deed is usually pointless, and unlike other combo decks Tooth can just topdeck game-winners even after the Duress/Therepy/Witness cycle has gone through. And scepter bases it's entire gameplan on locking a deck featuring targeted artifact removal, mass artifact removal, 8 spells that if resolved can fetch a land that makes key spells uncounterable, and more importantly Blinkmoth Well. Turn 2 Scrying for Blinkmoth Well puts Scepter in a position that is very far away from winning.

If you all would like, I wrote a relatively comprehensive piece on Tooth and Nail and what I'm currently doing with it for Extended here: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=433774


Ok let me tell you a couple of things. I prefer extended over standard because of stronger decks and smarter players. Next tnn will suck in extended. It doesnt get any play in extended now, it isnt even the best deck in standard, and it will get owned if anyone tries to play it in post rotation extended. Now lets skip over affinity and goblins and say thats a race between them and tooth although i still say tooth loses to them.

To the mathup between tnn and rock. Rock has the following to rape tnn. Cabal therapy, duress, cranial extraction, plow under, persecute. Now by no means does tnn even have 40 percent win percantage against rock. Rock is also quite fast. If rock takes out tooth from hand kokusho will soon be played. Kokusho only needs 2 swings to win because then second kokusho comes in for win. This puts tooth on a two turn clock to draw tooth play it and win which wont happen so rock is infinitly better than tooth.

Also scepter chant will never lose to tooth because of its counters. Muc in standard now owns tooth if it doesnt get boseiju and this is extended so scepter chant will tear tooth into peices

[darkmindtone]

Ok let me tell you a couple of things. I prefer extended over standard because of stronger decks and smarter players. Next tnn will suck in extended. It doesnt get any play in extended now, it isnt even the best deck in standard, and it will get owned if anyone tries to play it in post rotation extended. Now lets skip over affinity and goblins and say thats a race between them and tooth although i still say tooth loses to them.

To the mathup between tnn and rock. Rock has the following to rape tnn. Cabal therapy, duress, cranial extraction, plow under, persecute. Now by no means does tnn even have 40 percent win percantage against rock. Rock is also quite fast. If rock takes out tooth from hand kokusho will soon be played. Kokusho only needs 2 swings to win because then second kokusho comes in for win. This puts tooth on a two turn clock to draw tooth play it and win which wont happen so rock is infinitly better than tooth.

Also scepter chant will never lose to tooth because of its counters. Muc in standard now owns tooth if it doesnt get boseiju and this is extended so scepter chant will tear tooth into peices

Do you know why Tooth doesn't see play right now? I'll give you three reasons: Wasteland, Port, and a prevelance of Combo. Mana disruption is the easiest way to beat Tooth, and when decks that Tooth can have a tough time with such as Goblins can pack 4-7 LD spells without actually taking up "spell" slots, then that can almost completely kick a deck like Tooth out of the meta. Next, why would you play Tooth currently when there are other combo decks such as Aluren, Desire, and Breakfast which have a fundamental turn at LEAST one turn faster than Tooth's fastest. The reason is, their isn't.

With the rotation though, many things change. Tooth loses random loses to Wasteland and Port, and also much less to worry about on the combo front, as Aluren dies, while Desire and Breakfast lose both speed and consistancy (but will still remain playable in some form). This causes a meta dominated by Goblins and Affinity, with a presence from decks like Rock and R/G as well. Now, when Goblins and Affinity were in Standard, what other deck could keep up with them? That's right, Tooth and Nail. If you don't believe me, click the link I listed in my earlier post (if the many examples of success of this deck in that link can't convince anyone of the viability of this deck post rotation, I don't know what will).

Now, as for your "best deck in Standard", I think you need to catch back up there, as Tooth is indeed right now the best deck in that format. But this isn't the Standard forums, so I'll leave the discussion at that.

Now, have you tested the Rock vs. Tooth matchup? I'm pretty sure by how you give out examples you most definetly have not. I have, as I explained earlier, and I listed exactly what of relevance my opponents deck includes (4 Therepy, 3 Duress, 4 Terminate 3 Witness, and then 4 Artifact Mutation and 4 Cranial Extraction post board). Looking at card choices you would think Rock would be favorable, especially since my partner has taken Rock to PTQ top 8's, and plays with Trolls, Sword Of Fire and Ice, and Flametongue Kavu for a much quicker clock than the Kokusho one you site in your example. Still, Tooth is very favorable, simply due to the mana acceleration, "immunity" to Deed, and most of all: Sensei's Divining Top. If we resolve our key spell, we will win. If we resolve a Titan, we will most likely win. Colossus will most likely win. This is most definetly not the blowout you think it should be.

Scepter? Well you sure have a lot of hope for a deck which loses it's main draw condition (Brainstorm and AK), and still relies on getting a two card combo. It's disruption will not stretch very long, and Tooth is playing green, hence targeted artifact removal. We have Naturalize post board, we have 9 ways to get Blinkmoth Well (in addition to added search from Top), we have 9 ways to get Bosieju, Who Shelters All (same comment on Top applies), we have 3 Mindslaver post board, we have 3-4 Eternal Witness, we have 3 Oblivion Stone pre board, I personally have four Pyroclasm mainboard to deal with Meddling Mage and friends, we have random "I Win" threats in Titan, Colossus, and we have possibly the most powerful spell in the upcoming format in "Tooth and Nail. Not to mention that Scepter takes yet another hit now that Saviors is legal, due to the ever-popular Pithing Needle. You take this deck far to lightly, and when the next format comes into play, I cannot wait to see how successful it will be.

[Dark Light]

I have to tell the truth that T&N and is a dangerous match for Rock but until I see better test results against Goblins and Affinity I can't say any more.