Goblin Guide

[agracru]

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/37/goblinguideenlr.jpg (http://img34.imageshack.us/i/goblinguideenlr.jpg/)


I...I don't even know what to say. It's a 2/2 for :r: with Haste and a really, really minor drawback. Red creatures are starting to become good again. I could cry.

Outside the obvious placement in Sligh and Goblin decks, this guy's not a bad choice for your Zoo decks, either. With some quality burn in Zendikar and one or two more good Goblins, Red aggro (Goblin or Sligh) could be really, really powerful in October.

[nixonwong]

err the drawback is actually pretty big. giving control players more lands is a no no...

[The-DaRkLoRd-]

I still think this is a great card!

[Stall19]

I like him as well. I think he will find a place in burn decks

[Coolcat131913]

Ouch.. This card makes me worried...

[agracru]

The drawback really isn't that big. The odds that he'll actually trigger a draw per attack are low, and each time he attacks you learn what your opponent is going to draw next turn.

He also speeds you up significantly. If his drawback let the defender put a land into play that would be pretty major but he lets them maybe draw a land. You're giving them cards in exchange for tempo. Honestly, the drawback probably won't keep him from seeing play.

[KilLMNOP]

The drawback really isn't that big. The odds that he'll actually trigger a draw per attack are low, and each time he attacks you learn what your opponent is going to draw next turn.

He also speeds you up significantly. If his drawback let the defender put a land into play that would be pretty major but he lets them maybe draw a land. You're giving them cards in exchange for tempo. Honestly, the drawback probably won't keep him from seeing play.


You would know only if its not a land. If it is, then you still are left in the dark. I am still 50/50 about this guy. If any form of control remains on top when the rotation happens, then effect could be bad. Even worse its "when attacks" not "when deals damage". God forbid, and i know mentioning removal against a creature is a double edged sword, but they attack, you remove it, you get that card and they get no tempo. Granted its using removal for a 1 drop.

[agracru]

You would know only if its not a land. If it is, then you still are left in the dark.

When it attacks, the defending player reveals the top card of their library. You get to see what it is no matter what unless I'm severely misreading the text.

[Warmaker]

The drawback doesn't seem big at first...but, if Zendikar green pops up with a way to play extra land, or some uber-uses of landfall, it could be sizeable enough to make you think twice about using it.

Course if I'm wrong, this dude is one helluva nifty Goblin.

[SirMelchior]

When it attacks, the defending player reveals the top card of their library. You get to see what it is no matter what unless I'm severely misreading the text.

Right, but what KilLMNOPis saying is that if it is a land, then said land goes into your opponents hand and you have no idea what the next card is now.

[agracru]

And I'm saying, "big deal", because regardless, you are getting information every time you attack with Goblin Guide. They can't bluff you with that useless topdeck of Glacial Fortress, and if they aren't drawing lands then you know what their next draw is going to be.

Obviously it's preferable for the opponent not to reveal a land but still.

[Master Moja]

4 Goblin Guide
4 Warren Instigator
4 Goblin Chieftain
4---------------goblin
4---------------goblin
4 Siege-Gang Com.

4 Lightning Bolt
4--------------burn spell
4--------------burn spell

24 Mountain

Turn one: attack with Goblin Guide
Turn two: attack with Goblin Guide, play Warren Instigator.
Turn three: play Goblin Chieftain, attack with all of them for 9, put down a free goblin with Warren Instigator. Perhaps Siege-Gang Commander?
Turn four: Good Game.

[GenericKen]

Jackal familiar comes back to mind.

The information gain is non-trivial.
The card disadvantage can be mitigated in the early game with the opp on the draw. It does help dig opps out of mulls. That's more of a play decision than a build decision though.

But the drawback that nobody seems to be noticing is the card quality filtering he gives later in the game.

You can always stop attacking if the tradoff isn't there.

[Dobaniki]

err the drawback is actually pretty big. giving control players more lands is a no no...

this thing will do 4-7 damage to a control deck before they even get a chance to say hello. especially if you go first.

any deck you put this guy in is about life totals and not card advantage.


absolutely absurd card. Absurd... ABSURD.

Paired with the 2 drop double striking goblin I would go as far as to say red will be the dominating force for at least a little while.

This guy pegs for plenty very early and odds are they wont even get that land. the instigator eats any removal because hes the most threatening two drop since like... BB. If warren instigator hits you even once you better have a wrath effect or your odds of winning drop dramatically.


I really cant stress enough how insane these recent spoilers have been. Goblins have avalanche riders on crack, raging goblin got bigger, warren instigator is CRAZY. Goblin king 2.0, and siege gang as a finisher. Just makes you wonder what the power level of the rest of this pack is gonna be like.

Edit: Just thought of a turn 3 aggro murder in mono red.

Turn 1: this guy swings for 2
Turn 2: cast 2 more of these guys swing for 6
Turn 3: cast ball lightning swing for 12

2 + 6 + 12 = 20!

Talk about aggro. if you go first you can kill an opponent without them playing a third land.

[David88]

I think whether this card is good will depend on whether the decks around it run Knight of the white orchid etc i.e. cheap creatures that own it in combat. or enough 3 to cast sweepers or non-path cheap removal (as using path on a 2/2 really early is very suboptimal). Obviously all decks are going to run some of those things and if they run enough this guy is bad.

[agracru]

I think it's fair to say that Guide will see play somewhere in Standard. If the Goblin tribe isn't strong enough, then straight up Sligh might be; if not that then some weird Zoo lovechild. And so on. If nothing else he should see play in other formats, likely Extended, for his aggressiveness.

Also, what is with the "first strike dudes" argument? You know what the guy playing Red does with a first strike Bear? He turns his Mountains sideways and frigging kills it. I would be more worried about sweep effects than other weenies, and you can certainly play around sweep effects when you run into them.

[David88]

You're right about the first strike dude argument but sometimes you lose to the second dude in the way or sometimes the third. Also if you play one dude then blow things out of your way one at a time this is the wrong dude. Or a better argument is you lose tempo if you don't follow this dude up with more dudes.

[jrsthethird]

I'm thinking about him in Legacy. I need to test and see how much the drawback really hurts against certain decks. If he hurts in a certain matchup, he can be sided out easily.

Sligh is all about drawbacks though. Jackal Pup? Tattermunge Maniac? Man I used to play Goblin ****ing Cadets in my Legacy Goblin Sligh a few years ago. Look how much better we've got since then.

[sir-lag-alot]

And I'm saying, "big deal", because regardless, you are getting information every time you attack with Goblin Guide. They can't bluff you with that useless topdeck of Glacial Fortress, and if they aren't drawing lands then you know what their next draw is going to be.

Obviously it's preferable for the opponent not to reveal a land but still.


I still don't think you understand what they're saying...

Okay so you attack with Goblin Guide and they reveal, let's say, a Mountain, which goes into their hand. Now what's on top? You don't know. Their natural draw is still a mystery. Forgive me if I've misinterpreted what you've said.
Anyways regardless, this will see play, no doubt.

So here's for hoping to reveal non-land cards, in which case the drawback becomes an advantage! :D

[agracru]

I still don't think you understand what they're saying...

Okay so you attack with Goblin Guide and they reveal, let's say, a Mountain, which goes into their hand. Now what's on top? You don't know. Their natural draw is still a mystery. Forgive me if I've misinterpreted what you've said.
Anyways regardless, this will see play, no doubt.

So here's for hoping to reveal non-land cards, in which case the drawback becomes an advantage! :D

I do, but I can't get through to you the fact that if they do draw a land, you're still getting information about what they're holding, which is good enough that the fact that their natural draw is unknown is utterly trivial. My point is that every time Guide goes into the Red Zone, you are guaranteed to gain information about the opponent. Obviously them drawing a land is less preferable to them just revealing their next draw, but drawing a land is still revealing information about what they've got, which makes it that much harder for them to bluff.

[sir-lag-alot]

I do, but I can't get through to you the fact that if they do draw a land, you're still getting information about what they're holding, which is good enough that the fact that their natural draw is unknown is utterly trivial. My point is that every time Guide goes into the Red Zone, you are guaranteed to gain information about the opponent. Obviously them drawing a land is less preferable to them just revealing their next draw, but drawing a land is still revealing information about what they've got, which makes it that much harder for them to bluff.

kk sorry man, was just clarifying. Yeah that's true, such a good card. Although I'm just gonna compare this to the common; Vampire Lacerator. How is the lacerator's drawback so bad compared to this, that it gets a common slot, and this gets rare?

*EDIT* oops forgot that this has haste... ^^

[agracru]

Not a problem, I don't think I was explaining myself very clearly in the first place.

The prime difference between Guide and Lacerator is that Guide has Haste, whereas the Vampire does not. A 2/2 for 1 mana that has Haste requires a much more potentially significant drawback than simply losing 1 life a turn until you get your opponent to 10 life or less; I don't think that much of the Guide's drawback because it has benefits for you as well as your opponent, but drawing cards for your opponent changes the game-state in a way that losing one life doesn't.

[vger]

It's definitely an automatic 4 of's in sligh decks.

About the "drawbacks", it isn't really that significant from the way i see it.

First, regardless of whether what your opponent revealed, you have already gained the information needed.

Of course, the information obtained may not be worth it since the card draw would far outweigh it. And yes, your opponent may draw himself out of a losing situation (like missed land drops or crucial drops)

But the point of sligh is to finish games early. And goblin guide provides you a shot to end games as early as turn 4, where control has only started stablising. The card draw would be so much compensated when your opponent is so hard-pressed to survive the next following turns where you could possibly end the game with a bolt or something. From then onwards, every card you draw would be a potential game winner.

Besides, you can choose when to attack to stop your opponent from drawing extra. It's not a must to attack in the late game and it could end up as a blocker as well.

Even better, if your opponent isn't drawing anything from Goblin Guide.

[siopao]

i really like him. the fact that the drawback doesnt save them from land screw is really good. if a stack of 4 consecutive spells is on top and they are stuck at 2 land, they get nothing and you gain info with every attack.

[PaulRall]

this guy is definately nuts a 2/2 haster for 1 is just ridiculous plus his draw back isnt really a drawback in a monored kill you turn 3-4-or 5 deck

[Falkor]

Goblin gets a Lackey, and this card is probably better than the Lackey.

Unbelievable...

[GenericKen]

I do, but I can't get through to you the fact that if they do draw a land, you're still getting information about what they're holding, which is good enough that the fact that their natural draw is unknown is utterly trivial. My point is that every time Guide goes into the Red Zone, you are guaranteed to gain information about the opponent. Obviously them drawing a land is less preferable to them just revealing their next draw, but drawing a land is still revealing information about what they've got, which makes it that much harder for them to bluff.

For the record, when Goblin Guide flips a land, you're not really getting any more information about your opponent's hand other than the fact that it now has a land in it, and that your opponent is now more likely to draw a spell next turn.

If the Guide flips a land, you still don't know what your opponent is drawing in his/her next turn.

[agracru]

For the record, when Goblin Guide flips a land, you're not really getting any more information about your opponent's hand other than the fact that it now has a land in it

Which is still valuable. Knowing what they're holding, even if it's just a land, is important.I have not at any point said that if they flip land you're getting "more" information about their hand, just that knowing that they have that land is good.

and that your opponent is now more likely to draw a spell next turn.

Also good to know. Knowing, or being able to make educated guesses about, what your opponent draws/might draw lets you make better play decisions.

If the Guide flips a land, you still don't know what your opponent is drawing in his/her next turn.

I hate to have to repeat myself but yes, I get that. And I've said as much before.

[GoblinToken]

As a mostly aggro player I would LOVE to see my opponent drop this guy. Its a 40% chance each time it attacks of basically being a free Sign in Blood. And if I want to stop casting my free Sign in Blood I could always just play an Elite Vanguard or Wild Nacatl which cost the same mana WITHOUT major drawbacks, or maybe a Lightning Bolt (but after the declare attacks step for sure!)

They should have made this guy common or uncommon, by the way. A rare Goblin Guide makes no sense flavor-wise, and he's not good enough to break limited games, I mean not compared to Behemoth Sledge and Bloodbraid Elf...

[siopao]

he does have haste. and that makes a world of difference. odds are hes dead come t3. thats 3 swings at a ~40% chance of a land draw. that amounts to (probably) a card draw for the opponent(land at that), tells you what his top deck is 60% of the time and deals ~6 damage. pretty good for a t1 play imo.

[Barlimor]

wow....thats all i can say... just wow