Sorin Markov - Zendikar's 1st spoiled card [Archive]

ewallhagen

08-14-2009, 08:04 AM

So speculations: It seems everyone believes that the full body art indicates a planeswalker. It is also apparent that it is a vampire. Given those, anyone wanna make speculations on what its abilities might be?

I'll toss out the following (completely unfounded) speculation:

+1 Target opponent loses 1 life, and you gain 1 life.
0 <Card Name> becomes an X/X vampire creature with flying in addition to its other types until end of turn, where X is its loyalty. (Damage still causes loss of loyalty.)
-3 Destroy target creature. It cannot be regenerated.

4 Starting loyalty.

No ultimate, but a 2nd ability that could be really fun.

Other thoughts?

EDIT: PS the art is awesome.

Kris

08-14-2009, 08:10 AM

Yes, there is blood dripping from his mouth. He does sound very Vampire-esque to me, however, so I don't think a newborn Jace Beleren is correct. Possible effect?

<+1> Target player loses one life and you gain one life.
<-4> Reveal the top card of your library, if it's a Vampire, put it onto the battlefield tapped.
<-?> ?

Xearodeath

08-14-2009, 09:00 AM

its def a vampire, im thinking it might be a UB planeswalker cause the other planes walker is gonna be GB, so this is more likely gonna be UB i doubt they will have just a B, althought i think MBC needs to make a comeback.

his effect could be something like.

+1 put a 1/1 vampire creature on to the battlefeild with lifelink
-3 target player loses 3 life, you gain 3 life. put 2 +1/+1 counters on target creature(s).
-7 destroy all non-vampire creatures, all vampires get +3/+3 and have lifelink, untill end of turn.

(4)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
or something like that lol.

Master Moja

08-14-2009, 09:06 AM

Sorin, Vampire Liege
2BB
planeswalker-Sorin
+2 target player loses 1 life and target player gains 1 life.
-3 put a 3/1 vampire creature token into play with flying and lifelink.
-X target player loses X life where X is equal to the number of loyality counters on Sorin, Vampire Liege. then, Put X 1/1 black vampire creature tokens into play with flying, where X is the number of life your opponent has lost this turn from Sorin.
loyalty:3

naaa i dont think he will be blue black, thats not very vampire-ish. i still think he will be mono black.

CruelJace

08-14-2009, 09:14 AM

maybe White Black, White Black sounds very Vamp esque

NessOnett

08-14-2009, 09:16 AM

Well personally, since I've been playing Blightning for the past year, UB would piss me off a little. I'm really hoping to see mono-Black that's easy on the black mana, or possibly B/R, but that's likely not going to happen :(.

lylefortin

08-14-2009, 09:33 AM

Definitely all-black and definitely planeswalker. Oh and guys, there can't be target in the first ability of a planeswalker because you have to be able to add loyalty even if nothing happens. For example using Lilianna's first ability to force someone to discard a card eventhough they dont have cards.

2BB

+1 Each opponnent loses a life and you gain the life lost

-2 Gain control of target creature. Untap that creature. It gains haste until end of turn. Sacrifice it at the beginning of the next end step.

-6 Sacrifice all creatures you control. Opponent loses life equal to their power and you gain life equal to their toughness

Loyalty 4

ewallhagen

08-14-2009, 10:03 AM

...Oh and guys, there can't be target in the first ability of a planeswalker because you have to be able to add loyalty even if nothing happens...

Ahem, Chandra Nalaar would beg to disagree. And if you don't have an opponent to target with the life leach ability, then the game is already over...

mtglordtom24

08-14-2009, 12:41 PM

If you don't have an opponent to target with the life leach ability, then the game is already over...

Runed Halo.
True Believer.
Gilded Light.

My guess is:

Soren, The Guy that Kicked the S*** out of that Twilight P***** 1BB

Planeswalker- Soren

+2: Target opponent loses 1 life and you gain 1 life
-X: Target creature gets -X/-X until the end of turn
-10: Destroy all creatures you don't control, they can't be regenerated.

3

Oraymw

08-14-2009, 11:07 PM

Not only does he look very Vampiresque, but he also looks like some kind of dungeon delver/tomb raider, what with his longsword, the way his leather is strapped, and things like that.

DraconisMarch

08-15-2009, 12:10 AM

I really want a white/black planeswalker. That's my favorite color combo of all time.

I think it's a pretty good guess about the "target player loses one and you gain one" for the first ability. I'd just like a Vindicate in there somewhere.

Chally

08-15-2009, 01:59 AM

I think it'd be fun to see an ability that allows you to place +1/+1 counters on creatures you control for each life gained during your turn. Maybe an ultimate-esque ability that removes 6 Loyalty Counters. :P

Gren

08-17-2009, 04:21 AM

So it's confirmed; he's a 'walker.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/youdecide/08142009

4 Loyalty. Doesn't tell us a huge amount yet, but I'm hoping we get some abilities next...

Coolcat131913

08-17-2009, 06:00 AM

This speculation only fuels prices... *Sigh*

But also feeds me to know what this planeswalker might do.

Rakavolver

08-17-2009, 06:15 AM

Hey, Gren, how ya doing, man? Check out my siggy. SUCKS that Les Paul is dead, right? Well, sucks that Leo Fender is dead too, though as Stokesy will tell you, Paul Reed Smith lives still ! lol

In any event, Les and Leo lived THE life didn't they? Would that we all live half as much, as well.

On the Magic front ....

Hey, WHY are you guys still posting here, huh? We DO have 4 cards frpm Zendikar spoiled already, and there is a popular thread up about it.

Click here (http://forum.tcgplayer.com/showthread.php?t=192825) to see it and keep up on the latest not-so-speculative speculation, i.e., Kicker and Traps. Ciao.

Gren

08-17-2009, 07:45 AM

Sucks indeed sir. I have to stand with Stokesy on the PRS issue (long may he live), but it is a sad day for guitarists indeed. I wonder if Slash shed a solitary tear into his morning cup of Irish coffee when he heard...

Ah-ha! A new-and-improved music forum. I feel that I shall be gracing the 'rock music > other' category almost exclusively, such are my musical leanings.

I am good though, thanks for asking. Dealing with what the best of the British summer can throw at us...

Master Moja

08-17-2009, 08:33 AM

It's been confirmed he's a planeswalker with 4 loyality. Now I believe he will be something like this:

Sorin Sengir
2BBB
Planeswalker-Sorin
+1 Put a 1/1 black vampire creature token into play with flying.
-2 Target player looses 2 life and target player gains 2 life.
-6 Target opponents creatures get -X/-X for each vampire you control, and each vampire you control gains +X/+X for each vampire you control.
Loyalty: 4

b00xx

08-17-2009, 10:24 AM

woooohooo new planeswalker!

Gren

08-17-2009, 03:43 PM

I quite like the '+1: Target opponent loses one life and you gain one life' that's been flying around. He looks very vampiric, so it would fit flavour-wise. I couldn't call whether he was straight up :b:, or :b::w: though. Either would work for me.

Don't forget the MaRo, in his infinite wisdom, has been bandying around a 'Nicol-Bolas-Ultimate'-like ability for one of Zendikar's planeswalkers' ultimates. Considering the nature of Bolas, I think this could be applied to Sorin here. Floor's open to what the hell that means though. Thanks, big guy*.

*read: d***

Kris

08-17-2009, 05:16 PM

Found a spoiler of Sorin, not sure if it's legit or not. Here's the link: http://www.bragster.com/pictures/0288/4540/SorinPlaneswalkerZendikar_brag_medium.png

From what everyone's been saying so far, it looks like Sorin's going to be a Vampire. The first ability on this card seems very possible, as well as the second. Per mana cost, I think both White and Black will be included.

Godera

08-17-2009, 05:38 PM

Here's a pretty good looking Sorin speculation. It's just the full body of the one Kris linked.

http://www.gatheringmagic.com/?p=3570

sblade

08-17-2009, 05:57 PM

Thank you all for the links, even though they are speculations, you can always dream, PLEASE WotC bring DAMNATION back...

That Gothic Vampire looking planeswalker dude looks good, but if he is going to put vamp-tokens in play we are looking to another tribal block (kind of) ala lorwyn, i am not saying that it will be 100% tribal or tribal at all, and that the planeswalker will have those abilities, but if he does we will see another Elspeth but in black, which i don't want.

I think they might go enemy colors in this block, since m10 had allied colors, i don't want another multi-colored theme again but i do want to see enemy color lands.

I want to see the mana cost on this Sorin dude something like :1::b::b::w: and Chandra will have something like :2::r::r::u:, since we (kinda) know Nissa will be :g::b:

All in all, Zendikar sounds like a nice/fun block so far, i can't wait to go to the pre-release and open a walker.

And remember everything i wrote is speculation

Cheers.

RyuumiGaroukuni

08-17-2009, 05:59 PM

I'm so going to get him... I can imagine how cool he would be

nyxamalf

08-17-2009, 09:03 PM

ei kurisu thanks for the link. hehehe!

Coolcat131913

08-17-2009, 09:21 PM

Ha ha, I see everyone running to get their Vampire Nocturnus now before they jump up in price.. if they haven't already.

dethnite888

08-17-2009, 09:41 PM

yea its definitely a planeswalker :D

Writer1007

08-18-2009, 06:55 PM

alright here is my crack at abilities

+1 Put a 1/1 Black Vampire Creature Token onto Battlefield
-X Deal X damage to target creature or player and gain X life
-8 All creatures in Graveyards come in Battlefield under your control and are Black Vampire in addition to other colors and types

changed my mind after going back over some things ( Maro almost giving Nicol Bolas an ultimate that one of the Zendikar PW will get mainly) I think the ultimate might be an Identity Crisis like effect.

Chally

08-18-2009, 09:52 PM

I'd go along with that for the most part, but the ultimate ability is just too closely related to Liliana's.

b00xx

08-18-2009, 10:01 PM

Name Revealed

Sorin Markov

SGTslappy

08-18-2009, 10:11 PM

wow, it's Lilianna Vess' boyfriend. I bet the ultimate ability is Destroy up to 3 Target Non-Vampire Permanents.

Gren

08-19-2009, 01:41 AM

I thought that was Jace? :p

If everything we see stays as it is, I'm surmising that he'll be mono-black, rather than black-white, as the 'title bar' is the same colour as Liliana's, and not gold.

I quite like the name. Got quite a Russian feel to it. When his head pops up in the webcomics, that's the accent he's going to have.

"In Soviet Zendikar, plane walks YOU!"

Coolcat131913

08-19-2009, 01:55 AM

"In Soviet Zendikar, plane walks YOU!"

LMAO.
In a thick Russian accent..
"Every day in Zendikar, we wake up and take the 2 mile walk to town where there is a statue of Jace, and we spit at it 'Curse you Jace!'"

RyuumiGaroukuni

08-19-2009, 02:28 AM

Name is so... Russian!

Sorin Markov

b00m3r1987

08-19-2009, 04:45 AM

Maybe Wizards is taking a jab at the Russians, accusing them of being blood-sucking, commie-creatures?

Kal-El

08-19-2009, 12:01 PM

Seeing the way blood drips from his mouth, it's a give away. I thing it should have something like +/-?: you may remove a loyalty counter from target planeswalkers, put 1 loyalty counter on Sorin. It would go with the hole vampire theme. I think it will be :2::u::b: or :3::u::b:.

GoblinToken

08-19-2009, 12:28 PM

Yes, he's a blood-sucking Planeswalker. That doesn't mean he's got to be so tribal like everyone is predicting. They haven't made a tribal Planeswalker yet and we have no reason to believe that they'll start now. Planeswalkers are supposed to above petty things like creature-type. I'm not opposed to him MAKING vampires like other Walkers make Beasts, soldiers, and dragons, but I think if he pumps up Vampires or counts the amount you control or whatever Wizards is making a big mistake.

Here's my guess:

Sorin Markov :2::b::b:

Planeswalker - Sorin

[+1]: Target opponent loses 1 life. (You don't gain life because you're not sucking the blood, he is).
[-2]: Put a creature that was put into a graveyard this turn into play under your control. It is a black Vampire.
[-5]: For the rest of the game, damage sources you control have wither and lifelink.

{4}

b00m3r1987

08-19-2009, 05:34 PM

i think mono-black for sure.

Chenjamin

08-19-2009, 07:31 PM

I think it has to be black and white. Vampires are often holy in their existence. we can see the cross on his left hand... WOOOHHH; pretty sick card

kaelthas18

08-19-2009, 10:35 PM

why does zendikar and shards of alara set have only 249 cards? in the Past all starters have 300+ cards.. (onslaught,mirrodin, ravnica, timespiral)

siopao

08-20-2009, 12:06 AM

gren is right i think. its probably mono black. gold is thankfully far and away from the layout of the card.

i hope this guy aint 5cc. a planeswalker with 5cc that isnt insane will not see any play. think back on chandra and liliana. only reason elsphet saw play was because she had 2 "+" abilities and a reaaly good ult. and she didnt even see quite as much play as the other PWs mind you.

i like the ult goblin suggested. very vampire indeed.

Gren

08-20-2009, 03:48 AM

LMAO.
In a thick Russian accent..
"Every day in Zendikar, we wake up and take the 2 mile walk to town where there is a statue of Jace, and we spit at it 'Curse you Jace!'"

And beat it with with shoes?

Oh wait, my mistake; that's Zendiraq...

i hope this guy aint 5cc. a planeswalker with 5cc that isnt insane will not see any play. think back on chandra and liliana. only reason elsphet saw play was because she had 2 "+" abilities and a reaaly good ult. and she didnt even see quite as much play as the other PWs mind you.

Elspeth is :2::w::w: dude :). Highly

Not that I wouldn't love Sorin to be :wb:, but I don't see it happening. Interestingly, he could end up being a 3cc planeswalker I guess; we have only got one at the moment, after all. I see Nissa being 4cc, and Chandra staying at 5 maybe (as Ajani stayed at his old cc).

scaw

08-20-2009, 06:30 AM

Sorin Markov :2::b::b:

Planeswalker - Sorin

[+1]: Target opponent loses 1 life. (You don't gain life because you're not sucking the blood, he is).
[-2]: Put a creature that was put into a graveyard this turn into play under your control. It is a black Vampire.
[-5]: For the rest of the game, damage sources you control have wither and lifelink.

{4}

Oh no, but he can't give them lifelink! 'cause then the player would gain life, and that's against the function of the planeswalkers!
No, they invent at new ability that makes the planeswalker gain counters, as a player would gain life with lifelink. That's the way planeswalkers work!

I know you're just trying to find something different for him to do, but having him making target player lose 1 life and you gain 1 life, is the smartest way for that first ability to work..

GoblinToken

08-20-2009, 09:27 AM

Well the flavor I was imagining for my "predicted planeswalker" was his first ability is called "drain blood", his second ability saves a creature from death by "embracing" it, and the ultimate actually turns the player himself into a vampire.

Master Moja

08-20-2009, 01:40 PM

Sorin Markov :2::b::b:
Planeswalker - Sorin
[+1]: Sorin Markov deals 1 damage to target creature or player and you gain 1 life.
[-2]: Put 2 1/1 black vampire creature tokens with flying into play.
[-5]: Target player's creatures get -X/-X for each vampire you control.
{4}

My version is correct about the lifelinking ability. If that were true, Ajani Vengeant's ability wouldn't be correct.

Or, I could imagine Sorins last ability being this:

[-5]: Target player looses X life, where X is equal to the number of vampires you control.

Either way, he's pretty awesome.

GoblinToken

08-20-2009, 01:45 PM

Like I said before I reeeeeally hope they don't waste a planeswalker on a tribal effect like "Target player's creatures get -X/-X for each vampire you control." or "Vampires you control get yadda yadda...". Doesn't anyone else agree that Planeswalkers shouldn't be tribal? I mean thats what Lords and Lieges are for.

agracru

08-20-2009, 02:04 PM

I mean if you want to nit-pick they already have gone tribal with Planeswalkers with Elspeth producing Soldier tokens and all.

RiBu the Bang

08-20-2009, 02:20 PM

Tezzeret. . .

GoblinToken

08-20-2009, 02:36 PM

Frostshock

08-20-2009, 07:22 PM

If it hasn't been mentioned yet btw, he is a PRE mending planeswalker.

Warmaker

08-20-2009, 08:09 PM

I just want him to be kick-@$$. With that kind of a suh-weet image, WotC would be hanging itself if it weren't a good card (Hanging themselves again, I mean...what with M10 and all :D)

*Holy SH**, this thread has had 6,666 views...

CruelJace

08-20-2009, 10:37 PM

They didnt post up a new preview on Sorin? any1 know why?

GobletOfLove

08-20-2009, 11:05 PM

I want my new spoiler! I dont know why it's not there! (ps - Let it be the 3rd ability)

Rakavolver

08-21-2009, 12:31 AM

Magic goes through this every year - for Marketing reasons, Wizards reveals the cards in the new Fall set very slowly. It makes sense from a business point of view. They are, to use the business phrase: "Building anticipation," such that you can't wait to show up at the pre-release, and give them even more money than they already have, because after all Rosewater's kids are growing up, and they thus constantly need new shoes, etc.

It is the same as it ever was. September and October have been the most exciting months each year throughout Magic's History, and August the worst for the very anticipation you described. So nothing has changed really, so relax brah.

If it's driving you crazy (drives me crazy believe that even though I know this stuff), click here (http://www.ipod.org.uk/reality/index.asp) to stimulate your mind on something other than Magic, or click here (http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/mike_rowe_celebrates_dirty_jobs.html) to do the whole ted.com thing, whatever, to take your mind off the yearly torture. Works for me.

ewallhagen

08-21-2009, 02:52 AM

Zomg :3::b::b::b: CC... Dude better have some Pro abilities.

RyuumiGaroukuni

08-21-2009, 02:58 AM

Today's Update: Mana Cost!

:3::b::b::b: <- Sorin Markov's Casting Cost

1 :b: mana more than Liliana Vess

Its another Mono Black Planeswalker

Godera

08-21-2009, 03:06 AM

Where are you finding this information about mana cost? I'm on the You Decided page, and nothing has been revealed yet today.

agracru

08-21-2009, 03:10 AM

token producing is far and away useful in more different decks than buffing only one creature type. that planeswalker would be useful in one deck and one deck only and would not help make a better "fellowship of the rings" deck.

I mean, sure, but Elspeth is still arguably "tribal" because she produces tokens for a specific tribe and probably will provide more bang for the buck for decks loaded with Soldier synergy. I don't see how you can disagree with that claim.

As for Sorin, if :3::b::b::b: is correct, he'd better blow my socks off. At :3::b::b: Liliana hardly sees play, and her abilities aren't that bad. One more mana for Sorin has to mean some truly gnarly abilities in order for him to see play.

ewallhagen

08-21-2009, 03:25 AM

The new info is up for me... Maybe clear your history or cookies?

http://wizards.com/mtg/images/daily/youdecide/youdecide_04_42ru7xz500.jpg

Here it is though.

P.S. I hope Type line and Rarity are the last two, as we basically already know what those are.

Godera

08-21-2009, 03:28 AM

The new info is up for me... Maybe clear your history or cookies?

http://wizards.com/mtg/images/daily/youdecide/youdecide_04_42ru7xz500.jpg

Here it is though.

Yeah, I just reopened my browser and it loaded correctly. All I have to say is drat! He'd better have some fine abilities, or he won't see any play in my mono black deck. That's very unfortunate to say too, as I was greatly anticipating a new planeswalker to keep Liliana company.

RyuumiGaroukuni

08-21-2009, 03:54 AM

If we all remember when they 1st previewed Sarkhan Vol back in Shards of Alara and he was AWESOME. We can all now imagine how Sorin Markov will be...

Baatezu

08-21-2009, 05:14 AM

Sengir Vampire tokens anyone?

siopao

08-21-2009, 05:22 AM

all he needs is a second ability that profoundly changes the game state to warrant being played in constructed at 6 mana. no biggie. that or an ult that triggers the turn you set hin down.

sKinky

08-21-2009, 06:10 AM

How about something along these lines:

+1: Creatures you control gain flying and life link until end of turn.

-X: Sorin Markov deals X damage to target creature or player, you gain X life.

-6: Destroy all creatures target opponent controls. (Plague wind)

Rasputin_Dreamweaver

08-21-2009, 07:22 AM

Wow, wake up this morning and check on Sorin....very disappointed.

SIX?!?! Come on Wizards!

Atreties

08-21-2009, 07:30 AM

Here's an idea that might make him worth it:

-X Draw X cards and Lose X life.

but even then, 6 mana for 4 cards and -4 doesnt really seem worth it either.

GoblinToken

08-21-2009, 07:30 AM

for six mana I want his + ability to be amazing. I was thinking a super blood suck...

[+3]: All players lose 3 life.

Atreties

08-21-2009, 07:35 AM

for six mana I want his + ability to be amazing. I was thinking a super blood suck...

[+3]: All players lose 3 life.

[+3]: All opponents lose 3 life. You gain life equal to the life lost this way.

[-X] Target Player Draws X Cards and Loses X life.

Not sure on ultimate tho...

Rasputin_Dreamweaver

08-21-2009, 07:35 AM

I wouldnt mind if it was a +1 like: Put a 1/1 Black vampire token with flying into play.

agracru

08-21-2009, 07:54 AM

Maybe Necro with token generation rolled together. Dunno. At 6 mana, Sorin's probably going to have some high powered abilities, but I wonder if that's going to be enough.

The A-Man

08-21-2009, 08:13 AM

I don't think Wizards would do necromancy again. Tokens seem a bit more viable, but if all we get are tokens and a Sign in Blood type effect Wizards would be wasting a perfectly amazing picture. Maybe an effect hinting at actual Vampire lore. Taking control of a creature or creatures and turning them into the delightful blood-suckers.

CruelJace

08-21-2009, 08:18 AM

yah like

-2 Take Control of Target Non-Black creature(seems all the black removal has this), it becomes a Vampire.

The A-Man

08-21-2009, 08:22 AM

Sounds good except maybe a little bit more of a cost than -2. If it was -2 Sorin would be able to just poop out friendly vampires like he just ate 15 bean burritos from Taco Bell.

Vkandis

08-21-2009, 09:37 AM

Maybe Necro with token generation rolled together. Dunno. At 6 mana, Sorin's probably going to have some high powered abilities, but I wonder if that's going to be enough.

IDK a token generator, where the first token does not come out until turn 6 seems less than ideal. Compared to the other token generator abilities (which start turn 4) this would seem to be just a lack luster ability even if it is rolled in with something else. Given its cost of 6 would rather not see a token generator as its + ability.

GoblinToken

08-21-2009, 12:13 PM

If you base him on real vampire-lore (and not Magic's original interpretations of what vampire creatures do - not that there's anything wrong with the Sengir effect) the 3 abilities should probably resemble:
1: Drain Blood (probably the + ability)
2: Embrace / Sire (turn a creature into a Vampire)
3: Immortality (the piece of Magic currently reserved for "Lich" cards)

Kris

08-21-2009, 12:23 PM

GoblinToken: I agree with what you're saying, Sengir was slight of fail. With art like this, anything less than amazing would be a disappointment. Either way, I don't like the mana cost, and this may mean Sorin's effects are different to our thoughts. I'd like to see something along the lines of this:

{+2} Target player gains two life and target player loses two life.

{-1} Take control of target non Vampire creature, it becomes a Vampire.

{-9} Return all creatures in all player's graveyards to the battlefield. They become 1/1 black Vampires with Flying. You gain life equal to the damage dealt by Vampires this turn.

<4>

Onlooker

08-21-2009, 01:14 PM

To the battlefield or just to your side of it?

I'm disappointed in him costing 6 as well; need more good Jund planeswalkers =x

FinONZ

08-21-2009, 02:09 PM

very very disappointed. 3b hard enough plus all successful decks are either aggro or control. he wont fit in either. seems only jace elspeth and garruk are only viable in most decks because of cost..... sorin wont get no play in standard and that pisses me off, we need an enemy color planeswalker... i hope the elf broad wont disappoint. if he's going to matter he needs to be like this

+3 target player draws 2 cards loses 2 life
-2 target player discards a card at random
-9 destroy all non black creature return all black creatures from all graveyards to your side of the battlefield

something like that and i'll definitely make a deck 4 him

ewallhagen

08-21-2009, 02:15 PM

I wouldn't go calling this guy unplayable yet. I can easily see MBC making a comeback, and having this guy to top the curve with some decent abilities, he could see play.

leafsituation

08-21-2009, 02:37 PM

im 99.9% sure his first ability is "+1 target creature becomes black and becomes a vampire in addition to its other creature types and colors"

NessOnett

08-21-2009, 02:43 PM

im 99.9% sure his first ability is "+1 target creature becomes black and becomes a vampire in addition to its other creature types and colors"

something tells me that if he's a 4-Loyalty walker with a CMC of 6, his first ability is going to be +2 or better.

heathro1281

08-21-2009, 03:33 PM

Gleaning info his second ability will be a minus affect (the symbol points down) unless they are trying to job us.

GobletOfLove

08-21-2009, 03:55 PM

People are discrediting this guy WAY too quick. I agree w/ one thing: His place will probably only be in control, maybe 5 color (but i think that's gunna die) more likely grixis control, even more likely UB control, or, although i think mono colored decks will still be far and few, MONO BLACK CONTROL could be coming back. Especially w/ Hideous End being Doom Blade 5-8. YES! Hideous end isnt really good. But it's 4 more downgraded version of an extremely important card. Also, It's probably necessary for limited.

Writer1007

08-21-2009, 05:17 PM

His ultimate will be something powerful enough that they were considering giving it to Bolas, but thought that opponents could recover too well from it, so made Bolas more brutal. MaRo said he wanted Bolas ability to be *CENSORED* from one article and then said that they gave it to a PW in Zen.

Frostshock

08-21-2009, 05:49 PM

It doesn't surprise me he's 6cc. He's a pre Mending walker, and Standard already seems 7cc+ sorcery's. I'm betting post Lorwyn standard will slow down anyway. So this seems fine.

PhyrexianRitual

08-21-2009, 06:32 PM

I hope hes at least decent enough for edh.

venser-kid

08-21-2009, 07:32 PM

Warmaker

08-21-2009, 08:40 PM

this is exactly what went though my mind when i saw his mana cost is 6 : hmmmm 6cc ......zendikar........obelisk.......ancient time........DONT TELL ME DARK RITUAL IS BACK !!!!!!!!! i dont need to explain what happens if dark ritual is back right ?>.........

Dark Rit? Maybe. If it does come back, this Sorin dude'll probably end up numero uno on everyone's "to-get" list.

@ Rakavolver...a District 9 avatar? Really?

jodokast34

08-22-2009, 12:50 AM

im 99.9% sure his first ability is "+1 target creature becomes black and becomes a vampire in addition to its other creature types and colors"

I'm 99.9% sure that that would make him HORRIBLE, and that no one would play him if that were the case. Honestly, where do people come up with these ideas? Heaven forbid we speculate that his abilities will be relevant and impact the board!

Gren

08-22-2009, 01:44 AM

sorin wont get no play in standard

I don't mean to be a grammar Nazi, but dude...

Gleaning info his second ability will be a minus affect (the symbol points down) unless they are trying to job us.

Well spotted buddy! I missed that one. I'd assume they're not (am I too trusting?), as we correctly worked out that he was mono-black on Wednesday, based on the name/mana cost bar being black; they didn't change that one.

RyuumiGaroukuni

08-22-2009, 02:11 AM

I'm 99.9% sure that that would make him HORRIBLE, and that no one would play him if that were the case. Honestly, where do people come up with these ideas? Heaven forbid we speculate that his abilities will be relevant and impact the board!

... I agree with you 100% They won't preview this card... Just for any self-respected moron who thinks they know what the card will be and speculate abilities which suck and be not in the "to get" list in Zendikar.

They previewed this card for a reason... And that is, this card will be AWESOME!

PS: STOP DISCREDITING/DISCRIMINATING this dude!

Coolcat131913

08-22-2009, 02:25 AM

They previewed this card for a reason... And that is, this card will be AWESOME!

PS: STOP DISCREDITING/DISCRIMINATING this dude!

And I agree with you. I mean, so many commons and uncommons are well worth the hype; that's why we play magic.

This planeswalker is one of many cards that feeds our addiction to this game.

No doubt that this card will have an amazing awe to it.

venser-kid

08-22-2009, 03:07 AM

Nicol Bolas
BBUUURR
Planeswalker – Bolas
Loyalty - 6
+2: Destroy target permanent.
-4: Gain control of target permanent.
-8: CENSORED

My card submission was based a lot on my understanding of how you write a "big bad" villain. The audience can come up with worse things (to themselves at least) than you, the writer, can, so allow them the ability to fill in what exactly makes him so evil. I chose these abilities because they were simple and iconic, allowing the player more freedom to define Nicol Bolas as they wanted to. How do you stop someone who can destroy or steal or CENSORED anything?

The reason, by the way, that I have to censor the ultimate ability is that we ended up using it on one of the planeswalkers in Zendikar. Suffice to say it also fit on one line and had a very simple yet flavorful yet powerful ability. In the end they kept my first two abilities with the tweak that the first one couldn't kill creatures and the second one could only steal creatures. Once Zendikar comes out I'll let you know what Bolas's ultimate would have done if I had my way

because he says its simple powerful and on one line i speculate that the ultimate will be something like :"destroy 3 target permanents and u gain control of 3 target permanents" i highly doubt chandra will get something like this cuz of his colour and for nissa to have such powerful ultimate will just be unfair considering that she costs 4 only to start with

Master Moja

08-22-2009, 09:13 AM

Wow, Sorin Markov just got a whole lot worse. I just saw on MTG realm he was spoiled to have a :3::b::b::b: mana cost. Ouch. And I thought he was going to be playable...

And personally, I would much rather have seen a new planeswalker instead of a reprint of Chandra.

Unless they reprint some serious tech for mono-black, 5CC and white weenie are just going to crush everything else.

Dark Ritual, Bad Moon, Vampire Bats (for fun), Persicute, and Cruel Edict would all be nice to see come back in Zendikar.

Frostshock

08-22-2009, 02:45 PM

Too late. The new Chandra is Chandra Ablaze, with a CC of :4::r::r:

GobletOfLove

08-22-2009, 02:58 PM

As long as the high CC planeswalkers have game shattering effects, then im all good.

RyuumiGaroukuni

08-22-2009, 03:49 PM

sblade

08-22-2009, 04:20 PM

Too late. The new Chandra is Chandra Ablaze, with a CC of :4::r::r:

Where did you see this? :eek:

Link or it never happened :D

Cheers

Gren

08-23-2009, 03:03 AM

It's the Magic Facebook page's spoiler, found here (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=553929&o=all&op=1&view=all&subj=201120755306&aid=-1&id=1407197305&oid=201120755306&ref=mf#/photo.php?pid=8249385&id=201120755306).

One plus, two minuses.

Seems like perhaps high cc 'walkers are the order of the set? I'm looking forward to Nissa, at any rate. I'd surmise that due to high cc, they should have a large impact on the board; not as great as Bolas (awesome, but a bit expensive to be consistent), but greater perhaps than Liliana Vess and Chandra Nalaar (playable, but not brilliant).

I guess they're still learning with this card type. It was a bold move on their part, so even if they're not all great, we can cut them some slack. They're trying!

Master Moja

08-23-2009, 06:55 AM

Yeah it's just this. Nicol Bolas is a great card, but he's not very consistent because of his high mana cost. And plus, after waiting 8 turns to plop him on the field, and he gets counterspelled or O-ringed, its just not worth the wait. Sure, if you get him out safely and manage to keep him out long enough to do some damage, hes a rockin card. But otherwise, hes just prey to removal.

Gren

08-23-2009, 08:49 AM

In all fairness though; so can anything, really. It's about playing your cards correctly; baiting, waiting for backup, causing your opponent enough trouble that they make a mistake. And failing that, there's a chance they don't have an answer (read: they don't play white...).

You have absolutely no idea what he does, so how can you reasonably call him unplayable? He might be. You might be right. I just think it's too early to call, probably even if we see an ability tomorrow.

GoblinToken

08-23-2009, 03:22 PM

It's actually not much of a stretch to call any Black Permanent costing more than 5 without a CIP ability unplayable as long as people are playing white and sideboarding Celestial Purges.

I'm not saying I'm not interested, and I will play him despite the risk if his abilities are fun enough. I am at least a little disappointed though, no matter what his abilities are. Jace is getting so lonely at the 3CC slot!

Rakavolver

08-23-2009, 04:16 PM

Is it just me, or is this the SLOWEST rolled out set ... ever? I mean, c'mon, less than a month till the Pre! I mean .. huh? Come on back, now.

Frostshock

08-23-2009, 07:48 PM

They're also teasing out the new Chandra as well as a new vampire card(not Sorin).

agracru

08-23-2009, 08:20 PM

... I don't want to hear more pointless bashing about Sorin Markov... I MEAN COME ON!

So what he cost :3::b::b::b:.. Doesn't mean he's worthless!

Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker does cost :4::u::b::b::r:... But his abilities totally rocked the world!

Stop downsizing this card so much.

If Planeswalkers would now cost :5: or more... We can all hope they would have devastating effects in the playing field...

I don't get this at all. "Nicol Bolas cost even more than Sorin" doesn't really do much to stem fears that Sorin will end up just costing too damn much to be deemed playable, since Bolas has seen roughly no play in Standard-- entirely because of his casting cost. (You could argue that he doesn't have a home but I don't really agree with that.)

Even if Sorin's abilities are good enough to make him playable, his casting cost severely limits him to a more narrow scope of decks. He won't, for example, be the Black Ajani for aggressive or mid-range strategies. If MBC turns out to be a force in Standard then Sorin could see play there (again depending on his abilities). It's not pointless bashing, it's logical analysis. Of course, all the theory crafting in the world means nothing when you actually see what the card does and how it fits into a format, so he may end up being the best card in Standard. I don't know. I won't until October hits and the format (slowly) starts to take shape. But until then I think the concerns expressed about his casting cost are valid (and even when the abilities are unleashed we still won't know how he figures into Standard until we see what Black gets out of Zendikar).

Also:

I guess they're still learning with this card type. It was a bold move on their part, so even if they're not all great, we can cut them some slack. They're trying!

They may still be learning but it's not like they haven't printed a good Planeswalker before. "Still learning" to me would mean that they are looking over what made previous Planeswalkers successful, and extrapolating upon that to make new powerful Planeswalkers. Ajani, Garruk, and Jace are all excellent (Ajani in both forms), and the cost between 3 and 4 mana. Could they not model new 'Walkers around that CC range?

Again I admit that I'm debating a subject with a lot of variables in it, and maybe their goal is for PW's to be high cost with truly incredible abilities to make up for it.

One note for all those who like me see the 3BBB cost and raise an eyebrow-- Tezzeret costs 3UU and is considered to be very powerful. Now, admittedly, he fits into a narrow range of decks, but I think he's proof that higher-than-4cc 'Walkers can be made that have an impact on a format.

seshirure

08-23-2009, 11:19 PM

The Black is back! hahaha!

Day of Judgement was spoiled after the m10 release.
And m10 released a lot of regenerating creatures and most of it i think is in black.
The black is back to take whiteeees down to the ground.

Day of Judgement against Wall of Bone and Drudge Skeleton? What a wasteless move.
And those two creatures are in black to serve as instant blockers to protect Sorin, the black planeswalker. Now Sorin can wait until he pops out his ultimate power.

Additional Info:
Somebody told me that Sorin's ultimate skill is:
-? : Target player loses 10 life and you gain that much life.

Though it's not an official information but quite heavy if it's true.

"The black is back and it's true!" :)

seshirure

08-23-2009, 11:25 PM

Oh i mean of it in my honest opinion and not to degrade the capability of white with HoTP. :)

Just plain opinion of the release of Sorin and DoJ.

Chainer9999

08-23-2009, 11:37 PM

I mean no offense, but if my opponent is playing Wall of Bone and Drudge Skeletons in a constructed deck, I'll be too busy laughing to play Day of Judgement. Probably something like Day of Spittle, maybe.

Tylerhasheart

08-24-2009, 01:42 AM

Well I'm bummed the type line was revealed today. I wanna see ability lines, more importantly his ultimate.

Gren

08-24-2009, 05:00 AM

Ugh, should have known. I'm thinking...rarity on Wednesday, artist credit on Friday (not that I don't particularly want to know, but it's hardly need-to-know information).

I guess back when it was voted for, type line would have been interesting to know, without taking into account all of the information we now know of course. But c'mon, abilities! Who wouldn't want lines of rules text, planeswalker or no?!

GobletOfLove

08-24-2009, 05:33 PM

I'm almost ready to call shenanigans....who would vote for type line, rarity, or artist over actual lines of text? I think blizz is fakin it. They're not actually going by our votes.

If they would have handpicked the order to do it in, i think this woulda been exactly it. If it woulda been mana cost, or something besides art first, it would have been awkwardly places. They've done everything just the way it goes well, is slow rolled, you know what im sayin?

b00xx

08-25-2009, 09:08 PM

+2 Sorin Markov Deals 2 Damage to Target creature or player and you gain 2 life
-7 you control target player's next turn

GobletOfLove

08-25-2009, 09:42 PM

+2 Sorin Markov Deals 2 Damage to Target creature or player and you gain 2 life
-7 you control target player's next turn

Good, VERY good first ability! It's a +2, and removal, and lifegain. Definately seems playable....

Ultimate could = win in mono black control. They miss a beat, or make bad attacks, or tar themselves w/ w/e! And 2 turns after he's out?

I feel they're doing EXCELLENT on this guy, and he could VERY well see play.

RyuumiGaroukuni

08-25-2009, 11:17 PM

[+2]: Sorin Markov Deals 2 Damage to Target creature or player and you gain 2 life
[-7]: you control target player's next turn

Hmmm.... One looks like Ajani Vengeant's 2nd ability... Yet this one makes a +2... Which is good...

Final one I have to say... It "could" work... You could totally F@#$ Up the player and make him/her do your bidding.

... I want to know now his 2nd ability

sblade

08-25-2009, 11:18 PM

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/youdecide/08142009

Hmmm interesting two abilities, the first one damage+life gain and the ultimate is as good as good ol mindslave. So this was the ultimate ability that MaRo said that belonged to Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, i love it.

But i don't know if he will see competitive play, i am sure people will play test him, but at :3::b::b::b: is a bit heavy in an -Aggro oriented meta- (not saying that now is but it seems like Zendikar is trying to bring this, it might not even be aggro at all but time will tell). Now if we only had dark ritual is STD...

All in all this guy is looking awesome, i can't wait until Friday to see his last ability, my guess is that the second ability must be something like -X: destroy target greature with converted mana cost X, or -X: target creature gets -x/-x until the end of turn, i think it will make a very flavorful ability, since he is a vampire :D, plus backed up with the first and ultimate ability (which is rich in flavour, a vampire using his "mind control" jedi looking ability in inferior specimens ;))

Cheers.

Tylerhasheart

08-26-2009, 12:23 AM

I just want Zendikar to be released to see if Sorin's actually going to be playable in competitive format. Really interesting ultimate tho.

Gren

08-26-2009, 03:52 AM

Huzzah! Does this mean Wizards were listening to our b*tchin'? Or was the vote real all along? Who knows!

A lot of people called the first one; they just got it in half. Provided you're controlling your board properly as a black control player, he could survive for sure. 6 loyalty the turn he goes down is nothing to sniff at (provided you don't want to use his second ability, whatever that may be *holds breath for Friday*). Pack your Doom Blades and Hideous Ends (?).

As for the ultimate; I guess it makes sense that they got rid of mana burn! That could have been nasty. How exactly would it work; you get to see their hand etc?

agracru

08-26-2009, 04:27 AM

With those abilities he should fit just fine into an MBC-style deck if one comes up and actually is competitive. Cool stuff.

Master Moja

08-26-2009, 05:19 AM

Sorin Markov
:3::b::b::b:
Planeswalker-Sorin
[+2] Sorin Markov deals 2 damage to target creature or player and you gain 2 life.
[]
[-7] You control target players next turn.
{4}
Mythic Rare

So far Sorin Markov is cool. His first ability was the reason why I even thought about this card. Life gain, removal, and damage to target creature or player. That kinda power isn't expected with a positive ability which will raise him to his ultimate. I was thinking about this earlier. Imagine if they reprinted Dark Ritual. At first I said thats not going to happen. But the more I thought about it, the more possible it seemed. Lightning Bolt came back in M10. Dark Ritual would possibly put mono black at the edge of its game, making it super competative. a turn 3 Sorin Markov would crush so many players. If they don't exactly reprint Dark Ritual, they may reprint a new card similar to the ability. I don't know about you guys, but this seems like a possibility to me.

agracru

08-26-2009, 06:20 AM

See, I don't think Dark Ritual will get reprinted, because a turn 3 Markov would be very, very, very hard to deal with for players when they're on the draw. Unless all the colors get something equally as unfair, and even then I still don't see Dark Ritual getting reprinted. A Walker that hits play on turn 3 and starts affecting the board immediately and builds to a high loyalty very quickly and increases the clock for the opposing player is pretty hard to respond to if he resolves.

Bottom line, on paper, Markov is good. Very, very good. Whether or not he sees play will depend on what else Black gets out of Zendikar, but he could easily be a large part of the control element of MBC if that deck gets enough extra juice out of the set.

GoblinToken

08-26-2009, 06:48 AM

All I can say is this guy's 2nd ability better be pretty damn good for him to see any competitive play. Shock creature, gain 2 life every turn is good... too good, opponents will all be packing Celestial Purges and Negates, or just winning on their turn 7 after you spent your whole turn on a shock.

That said, his second ability IS going to be very good. I mean it has to be better than his mini Lightning Helix for it to get any use. I'm hoping for something quirky we haven't seen on a Planeswalker yet like Silence or Sanguine Bond or something.

masterfreakish

08-26-2009, 07:29 AM

im not sure this will see any competitive play due to its casting cost, you need to get a strong ramp to use it.....

agracru

08-26-2009, 07:59 AM

For MBC, that 3BBB shouldn't be that prohibitive considering that he impacts the board immediately upon hitting play. I still have some concerns about the cost, just because 6 turns is a lot of turns and by that time in the game you should either have control or be close to gaining control, but his viability at this point depends on a couple of things:

a) What the rest of Zendikar Black looks like
b) What the metagame ends up settling into once the rotation hits

PlatypusPlatoon

08-26-2009, 09:17 AM

Sorin's ultimate must be the one Rosewater was teasing in his article about designing Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker.

The reason, by the way, that I have to censor [Nicol Bolas'] ultimate ability is that we ended up using it on one of the planeswalkers in Zendikar. Suffice to say it also fit on one line and had a very simple yet flavorful yet powerful ability... Once Zendikar comes out I'll let you know what Bolas's ultimate would have done if I had my way.

justactcasual

08-26-2009, 09:48 AM

Dark Ritual will not be reprinted. That ability is in Red now, the power level was wonky (more than Bolt's), and they've been holding off on ANY ritual-type cards lately. Bolt was reprintable because the general power level of creatures has gone up over time: this reasoning actually works against reprinting Ritual.

Sorin is awesome and will be played for his first ability alone. It would be neat, going with the MBC idea, if his second ability was something like "-3: All lands are Swamps until end of turn". It would power up Tendrils, play into the suspected Zendikar Land theme, and act as pseudo-LD.

Also this is awesome to drop after Sanguine Bond if you're a Johnny.

DraconisMarch

08-26-2009, 11:13 AM

As for the ultimate; I guess it makes sense that they got rid of mana burn! That could have been nasty. How exactly would it work; you get to see their hand etc?

Read Mindslaver. (Sans the reminder text about mana burn.)

PS: Art looks very Aleski Briclot-esque to me. He's amazing.

agracru

08-26-2009, 11:38 AM

I agree. The art is truly spectacular. If nothing else Sorin may be the best looking Planeswalker out there, but I have a strong feeling that he's going to be pretty relevant in October.

And if not then I'll collect a whole binder full of Sorin Markovs. Totally badass art.

Warmaker

08-26-2009, 08:08 PM

Sorin...is...AMAZING!

I love it-the return of my favorite artifact is on a bad-@$$ vampire!

If nothing else, the art is enough to make me want to go out and get this guy immediately when Zendikar is released. :D

Jacois

08-26-2009, 08:09 PM

Great Sable Stag is going to make Sorin unplayable unless its 2nd ability forces an opponent to sac a creature.

justactcasual

08-26-2009, 08:46 PM

Great Sable Stag is going to make Sorin unplayable unless its 2nd ability forces an opponent to sac a creature.

Scenario: they have the stag (attacking sorin each turn), and you just played Sorin (1st ability at opponent each turn). You end up 20 life, and your opponent down 8, versus them just attacking you without Sorin around.

Even if they just attack you each turn, with Sorin out using 1st ability you can race by essentially negating 2/3 of the stag damage, while shocking them each turn. Oh yeah, and you can choose to control their turns or [ABILITY 2].

These hardly sound like traits of an 'unplayable' card. And that's assuming they have an active stag. Remember that the double green will actually matter come fall.

RyuumiGaroukuni

08-26-2009, 09:06 PM

... He's going to be in my "To Get List" in Zendikar this october!

heathro1281

08-26-2009, 10:52 PM

The ability to deal it to creatures is what makes this very good. He is direct damage (red trait) and life gain (white trait) with a 'blue-like' ability (messing with the turns like taking extra turns or ending peoples turns).

Sorin gives a little something to black from each color so I guess his 'minus' would be greenish (like an overrun for vamp's or black creatures). But this is just a way out in left field guess, but it would fit the flavor...

Sorin is very usable IMO. Black/Green rock with Stags, Duress, Pulses, doomblade, Sorin...

j312311

08-27-2009, 12:08 AM

Too bad mana burn isnt still in effect, or Sorin's ultimate would be that much better. Manaburning them for the win would be hilarious.

agracru

08-27-2009, 05:16 AM

Great Sable Stag won't effect Sorin's playability. Sorry, I just don't see it. There may be ways to deal with Stag for mono-Black decks (there's already Gargoyle Castle), and his Shock ability really makes Stag ineffective, as has been pointed out.

masterfreakish

08-27-2009, 06:35 AM

Good card to me

Coolcat131913

08-27-2009, 01:02 PM

I just realized that we (Magic Players) love Art in general and voted for it but who wants to bet that the Artist will be last. It's kinda hypocritical...

SquirrelFang

08-27-2009, 09:10 PM

Here's the finished spoiler for Sorin Markov:

http://www.wizards.com/mtg/images/daily/youdecide/youdecide_09_hahch4aldd.jpg

Freaking over powered in a slow control deck. With the new Wrath coming in Zendikar and this guy, a WB control deck, plus another color, probably U, you can ignore your opponent until turn 6 before dropping this guy and plain winning. Awesome.

RyuumiGaroukuni

08-27-2009, 09:17 PM

2nd Abilityand Whole Enchilada is revealed

[-3]: Target opponent's life total becomes 10...

... Meza ish saying... Can I get a Hidetsugu's Second Rite

GobletOfLove

08-27-2009, 09:17 PM

-3 Target opponent's life total becomes 10.

Okay, sorta lack luster, but if you've jsut been mono black control PWNING all there creatures up to this point, or w/e, this could be a 10 damage shot

OdiousMesmerism

08-27-2009, 09:55 PM

Wow. That's intense.

Zoltang85

08-27-2009, 10:01 PM

I :heart: the 2nd ability. In rock like decks a 10 damage DD is welcome, followed by another 2 damage a turn... hes a 5 turn clock on his own! thats sick... Knowing only of Sorin from the new set, i can see GB rock or jund decks building in my head lol... little duress some putrid leech, sprinkle on some sign in blood, jund charm / fallout... doom blade malestrom pulse... little lightning bolt for flavor....delicious.

agracru

08-28-2009, 04:35 AM

Yeah I think Sorin is going to be one of the most sought-after cards in the new Standard.

DraconisMarch

08-28-2009, 05:33 AM

Jizz.

In.

My.

Pants.

I want 20.

PS: Hidetsugu's Second Rite.

RyuumiGaroukuni

08-28-2009, 05:58 AM

Jizz.

In.

My.

Pants.

I want 20.

PS: Hidetsugu's Second Rite.

YES! Hidetsugu's Second Rite... BR Deck burn to end it

masterfreakish

08-28-2009, 06:04 AM

over powered, somebody will break this card for sure...

i think ill get out one jace beleren for one of them in my time sieve deck

Master Moja

08-28-2009, 06:36 AM

make a deck for him :P

SquirrelFang

08-28-2009, 06:38 AM

This card doesn't really need to be broken. It already is. When you look at this card all you have to ask yourself is: "Am I running black and will my deck play out until a late game turn 6 or 7?" If you answer yes, put this in your deck. It's 4-of material just as a 3BBB: Target player's life becomes 10. What's entirely unfair is that you can drop him in, use his Life = 10 and he's still alive. The next turn you can drop hit the +2 life swap and your opponent is in a sad sad situation. He will win games on his own. I'm already thinking Esper Control.

4x Sorin Markov
4x Day of Judgement
4x Path to Exile
4x Doom Blade
4x (Playable counterspell we better get in Zendikar)
2x Essence Scatter
2x Negate
3x Elspeth Knight-Errant
4x Tidehollow Sculler
4x Wall of Denial
1x Martial Coup

4x Drowned Catacomb
4x Glacial Fortress
4x Arcane Sanctum
2x Esper Panorama
3x Swamp
3x Island
5x Plains

Or something like that. It's not a very solid list. But it plays similar to The Spanish Inquisition.

GoblinToken

08-28-2009, 06:43 AM

Sideboard card against life gain decks, especially infinite life gain, trash most everywhere else. His second ability is only useful if you're purposefully just sitting on your thumb for the first 5 turns, so you pay 6 to shock and gain 2 and you're tapped out and your opponent has a free turn 7 to finish you or play Celestial Purge or Pithing Needle. I'd rather pay 6 mana for Garruk than 6 mana for this guy.

SquirrelFang

08-28-2009, 06:50 AM

I really think he's built for slow control decks Gob. Those decks really do kinda just sit there for the first 5 turns, controlling the game. It's a really powerful thing to be able to sit there, controlling what's going on, and ignoring your opponent's life. With my build, you control and control and destroy creatures and such until you have an Elspeth and a Sorin out together, then you win. No questions.

Master Moja

08-28-2009, 06:57 AM

3 Sorin Markov
2 Jace Beleren
3 Cruel Ultimatum
4 Bituminous Blast
4 Volcanic Fallout
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Blightning
4 Terminate
4 Infest
4 Ponder

Basically protect yourself through turns 1-6, drop a Sorin Markov, use his -3 ability if your opponents life is too high or use his +2 ability to gain some life back. Turn seven drop a Cruel Ultimatum and then use Sorins first ability again.

Garruk Wildspeaker
Sorin Markov
Lightning Bolt
Volcanic Fallout
Maelstrom Pulse
Putrid Leech
Terminate
Blightning

or do something with these cards above in a jund style deck...

agracru

08-28-2009, 07:00 AM

What Squirrelly said. This guy's already broken from the get-go. And I also agree that he's going to find a home in a slower, more controllish or mid-range deck. His cost is too prohibitive for him to find slots in an aggressive deck. I expect that mono-Black or U/B mid-range/control will make heavy, heavy use of him. Hell, any deck that can reliably make BBB at any point in its game will try and use him. He's a beast.

And his art rocks.

philos

08-28-2009, 07:34 AM

Seems to be another staple in EDH, muahahahah!

Magut

08-28-2009, 07:58 AM

Am i the only one who thinks that sorin isn't good at all?
1st ability is irrelevant at turn 6, the second is useless in an aggro deck, and far more useless in a control deck. Mind slaver is quite interesting but not on turn 8. Low loyality for it's mana cost makes him lame. On top of it, he doesn't even protect itself.

PlatypusPlatoon

08-28-2009, 08:17 AM

Huh.

I was hoping for a more powerful second ability. Especially since it costs -3 loyalty.

Planeswalkers are defined by their minus ability, and I'm not a big fan of Sorin's. It doesn't "deal 10 damage" to target opponent; it sets their life total to 10. That's a huge difference. You can't use him as a finisher on a weakened opponent; he merely sets up a strong opponent into a weaker position, at which point you still have to do the legwork yourself. Using that ability right out of the gate brings him down to a piddling 1 loyalty, where he's liable to be bashed in the face by a Squire. You're basically paying 6 mana for Magister Sphinx's effect, without the 5/5 flying body.

Sorin does a terrible job defending himself, which is the hallmark of other good planeswalkers. By turn 6, the creatures gunning for his throat will easily shrug off his Shock damage.

You also wouldn't ever use his minus ability twice (unless you're up against that weird kid playing his life-gain deck). That's a huge drawback, as every other planeswalker (save Elspeth) gives you big bang for your buck from multiple uses of their minus ability. Think Garruk's beasts, Goldmane's +1/+1 counters, Jace's cards, Nicol Bolas' control magic.

His + ability rocks, no question. But his minus ability and ultimate are pretty disappointing, power-level wise (though I will grant that his ultimate is very cool, flavour-wise). Not worth the 6 mana investment, even to mini-Lightning Helix multiple times.

philos

08-28-2009, 08:38 AM

2 damage to target creature or player, isn't that some sort of protection? How does a planeswalker protect itself? I don't understand how Sorin's second ability could be called useless? Irreversible life loss...

Magut

08-28-2009, 08:51 AM

DraconisMarch

08-28-2009, 08:56 AM

useless because in an aggro deck the opponent will have already less than 10 points on turn 6. Far more useless in control because control bomb should end game, not reducing life to 10 and then not be able to do more damage. I misread the frist ability, so i thought that sorin can target only players, that's why i said he can't protect himself. Still this doesn't make him a good card

Are you s***ing me? He's amazing.

Of course he's not good in an aggro deck. He's obviously not an aggro card. Duh. Like someone else already said, let your opponent do whatever the hell they want until you drop him then BOOM. Down to 10, no matter what.

This is obviously meant for MBC. Maybe they'll bring back Corrupt to finish the job.

PhyrexianRitual

08-28-2009, 09:10 AM

YES! I can't wait to use him in EDH lol but he'll probaly be banned for that second ability. Pretty impressed though.

agracru

08-28-2009, 10:21 AM

The second ability, as I see it, lets an MBC deck do much less leg work to actually win. If control of the game is slipping out of the player's hands, then the second ability with, say, a Corrupt (and assuming a couple of uses out of his + ability) can finish the game in one turn.

His use is going to lie in picking off support creatures and upping the clock while your removal spells deal with the more threatening creatures, and then stealing the win in a single main phase.

I agree with what you're saying about his second ability being somewhat lackluster compared to other Walkers, and I think that his cost is still a bit much even considering his abilities. That said I still think that he's pretty powerful, assuming there is a home for him in October. Regardless, people are going to pay out the nose for this guy for the sheer "cool" factor alone.

PlatypusPlatoon

08-28-2009, 11:35 AM

I'm trying to figure out if this guy is worth using in a control deck for his first ability alone, which is admittedly very powerful. Picture plopping him into play on turn 6, and doing nothing but his +2 ability from that turn onwards. If there's no targets to pick off, that's a +4 life swing per turn, and being at 6 loyalty before the opponent gets their first crack at him makes him pretty resiliant. And if the opponent is sporting a Tidehollow Sculler or Meddling Mage, well, all the better.

On further thought, his second ability resembles an ultimate, albeit a weak one. It doesn't affect the board whatsoever, a huge drawback for a planeswalker that strives to fit in a control deck. His actual ultimate, while cool on paper, is in reality very weak. The dream play would be to use the opponent's Paths and Lightning Bolts to clear out their own board, all while grabbing their fists and asking them, "why you hitting yourself?". Of course, the opponent will see the ultimate coming a mile away, and clear their hand first, immunizing themself from such shenanigans.

So, we're left with a 6-mana planeswalker that has trouble defending himself, can deal with only the smallest of utility creatures, and has possibly the weakest ultimate ability printed to date, along with a feeble mini-ultimate in place of a real second ability. On the upside, he's difficult to kill when his plus ability is used exclusively, and that ability can lead to huge life swings over the course of a game. If you already have a firm grip on the game, he works his best, but he does nothing to help you gain control of a game slowly falling out of your grasp.

The definition of a win-more card.

agracru

08-28-2009, 12:05 PM

But if they clear out their hand first then that puts you in the enviable position of being able to take advantage of their over-extension. Either they put all their cards on the table, literally, or you get to wreck some havoc on them with their own spells. The worst thing that an aggressive deck can do against control is over-extend. If Sorin's ultimate bluffs them into doing so, all the better for you if you can take advantage of it. (Though it does make your Duress' sit in your hand.)

Again, I see what you're saying, but I can also see how those abilities end up working favorably. The only way to tell is through genuine testing. Though I admit, I am really looking forward to smacking my opponents, with my opponents, and shouting "STOP HITTING YOURSELF", though I imagine that will lead to interesting conversations with judges.

PlatypusPlatoon

08-28-2009, 12:22 PM

Over-extending is only bad when we're talking about Wrath. And Day of Judgment is in white, an awkward combination with our triple black-mana planeswalker friend here. Really, if I see Sorin across the table from me gaining chunks of loyalty, I'm not worried about playing out all my creatures. I'm just going to get rid of my removal. If you want to control my turn to cast my Captain of the Watch, be my guest.

I'm afraid there's absolutely nothing worth testing about Sorin. Other than his strong first ability, the rest of the package does not merit the mana investment. There are much stronger cards in Standard to build your control deck around, cards that actually have an immediate, widespread impact on the game upon being cast. Have people heard of Cruel Ultimatum and Baneslayer Angel?

My advice - and I genuinely believe this - is when you crack this planeswalker at the release party, sell high. Like Nicol Bolas and Sarkhan Vol, the initial wave of hype will see him hit north of $15. Then, reality will set in, and people will realize he's not playable in any archetype. His cool factor alone (illustration, and flavour of his ultimate) will give him some residual value, and he'll settle at a final price closer to Liliana (who is much stronger than Sorin, btw, as she wreaks havoc on control decks, while Sorin can only watch enviously). But don't wait for that. As soon as you get your hands on him, get him off your hands.

Minion_of_Gleemax

08-28-2009, 01:07 PM

I think you may be wrong about this one Platy, but only just. I think he may function like elspeth in a way in that he is really only used for his + ability (which is quite good). His second ability is situationally useful; 95% of the games it will never be used, but the other 5% will be amazing. His ultimate is essentially a timewalk with some bonuses and some drawbacks. His value comes from his + ability and consequently his resilience. Will he warp the game? Probably not. But I think he has legs in the right deck.

mrc

08-28-2009, 01:07 PM

Am i the only one who thinks that sorin isn't good at all?

No, I agree completely. He is over costed and his abilities are pretty weak. He'll make you money though. He will have a high asking price untill no one finds a deck for him. I plan on dumping these as soon as i open them.

Minion_of_Gleemax

08-28-2009, 01:08 PM

Oh oh! And, he looks sweet. =)

heathro1281

08-28-2009, 04:18 PM

I am looking at these little additions :

He makes sign in blood a great draw spell (costing no life to cast
essentially)
His shock plus infest kills a x/4 and sweeps the board

His second ability allows the MBC player to ignore the opponents life total until board control is achieved (the less a control player has to worry about, the better). You could essentially not play a single threat and still have your opponent at 10life. At 10 life and turn 6 Hideous End, Sorin's first ability, Corrupt all become real good in multiples.

His last ability lets you see your opponents hand, chump attack into a bad position (possibly tap his creatures out), taps your opponent out forr your turn, sets your turn up to do whatever you want freely. His ultimate will be used to end many games

To pass judgement today is also useless.... MBC may not even be able to make a comeback, who knows? Lets just trust wizards...

Loyatx

08-28-2009, 06:19 PM

Very nice i just wonder if by taking theyre turn u take theyre hand they have and draw for them and be able to suicide attack or do whatever you want to mess theyre turn up, to ur advantage?

justactcasual

08-28-2009, 06:24 PM

@heathro: Sign in Blood is already a great draw spell. Sorin doesn't make any difference, as it still costs you the 2 life you would have otherwise gained with Sorin.

OdiousMesmerism

08-29-2009, 01:38 AM

All Zendikar needs is Dark Ritual. :D

Rakavolver

08-29-2009, 05:57 AM

All Zendikar needs is Dark Ritual. :D

Indeed, sir, and the odds of THAT happening are between doubtful and none, leaning heavily toward none.

What Odious is referring to of course is that the BIGGEST drawback of Sorin, and it is a HUGE drawback, is its high casting cost.

But fear not, Sorin lovers, all may not be lost! Maybe, though, unless what I am about to say is not true (in which case it would still be a decent above-average walker with specific and narrow potential in some builds).

If this is indeed "the land set," as has been hinted at, the potential in Zendikar MAY get quite bizarre on the level of Darksteel making Artifacts bizarre ... aka ... broken.

IF they do do (heh ... "do-do") squirrely stuff with lands, like allowing more than one land to be played a turn, ripping lands from your library into your hand, etc., this may be, MAY be, a third turn card, in which case ... yikes. That's all I'm saying. I don't know, nobody knows except R&D, so why worry, mates?

In the meantime click here (http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=8534) and read this article by Mike Nyberg on what we SHOULD be worrying about.

Less worries, quite useful AND intriguing, and a better expenditure of our time, atm imo. Cheers.

hotsauce

08-29-2009, 07:56 AM

His high casting cost will keep him from seeing too much play so I would definitely sell them early on if you can get over 10 in cash for them.

But...MBC is looking like a legit archetype and undoubtedly this guy has a place in that deck. His first ability helps you lock up the board against aggro while his 3rd ability will be a wrecking ball vs control. Even if all you do with it is tap them out and then Consume them for 10 it will be a game winner. Realistically that deck could easily go creatureless between Sorin and Consume.

siopao

08-29-2009, 10:45 AM

g/b can accelerate this out by t3-4 no problems. the 2nd ability with a couple of early leech beats would be fun fun fun. the ult, needing 3 turns to activate probably means you wont get to use it at all. not in creatureless mbc atleast.

hope some form of good artifact acceleration is in zen ala mindstone so that this guy can actually have a chance of being played.

Agrrotactics

08-29-2009, 11:06 AM

Black decks needed something like this welcome new planeswalker. His -7 is interesting taking control of an opponents turn, who knows what will happen. I don't really care for his -3 too much seems like like droping your opponents llife points down to 10 by turn 6-8 seems like you would likely be doing not very much damage. His +2 is awesome since its 2 loyalty counters and willl help you out race your opponent very effectively.

SGTslappy

08-29-2009, 11:43 AM

This card is great for Casual play if u can double dark ritual on turn one to do u know what. How much do u predict this card will be?

Agrrotactics

08-29-2009, 12:19 PM

I don't understand why a lot of you guys are drooling over his -3 its not good. His +2 is amazing, and his -7 is very interesting the idea of seeing your opponnents hand and forcing him to whatever on that turn or just don't do anything will defintally set them back a turn or 2. If cryptic command and him ever saw play together that -7 would cause such insanity on how you could completely screw with your opponent field. killing something in his hand forcing them to get 2-1 and losing the board postion for a turn is a big ouch.

Rakavolver

08-29-2009, 12:49 PM

As your friendly neighborhood Moderator, I am merging this thread (from the Standard forums) with the thread already started about Sorin in the Zendikar forums.

Watch the fireworks that ensue after THAT happens, whoa, but I'm always up for a good fight.

Dudes: think: UB Control, and has been previously mentioned: GB ramping out the Sorin on turns 3-4, then ... THINK about the possibilities, thank you.

Galvatron

08-31-2009, 03:05 PM

watch he goes in 5cc with bolas jace lilana an ajoan vengent or je just goes into MBC with lilana on another note MTGS forums are officially in my book the 4chan of magic forums

agracru

08-31-2009, 03:54 PM

sblade

08-31-2009, 04:51 PM

5CC is not going to be viable in October
5CC is not going to be viable in October
5CC is not going to be viable in October

I know that the best deck in Block is a Cascade-based 5CC deck, but that's Block, where every deck is frigging horrible. New Standard will be defined in part by Cascade but I can't see 5CC being the force that is now once October rolls around, especially if Mono/Dual-colored decks are given more tools to work with. 5CC decks are hell of going to miss out on using the new Zendikar mechanics, while the Mono/Dual-colored decks will get to use those mechanics along with Cascade. Really, I'm just not seeing it.

Maybe this is more just me hoping that Standard doesn't become a race to see who can Cascade flip Maelstrom Pulse first, because if so it's going to be a long, long, long year.

I beg to differ.

First let me tell you that, although is true that 5CC will loose the best counterspell in STD , you know the name, i am sure that WotC will do something about it, since :u: didn't get any love in M10.

Second, We (yes i play 5CC) loose the land base, which is one of the most important pillars in 5CC but so what? I have been using tri-lands from Shards and some basic lands along with m10 dual lands, and they work just fine, granted, the filterlands are far superior to m10 lands when it comes to manafixing, and Reflecting Pool is amazing and eveything but so what? we will figure something out.

Third, 5CC is fun to play, it requires a lot of skill unlike the mindless RDW,Kithkin,Fae they always run on auto-pilot.

Granted cascade will see a lot of play, the mechanic itself is way overpowered but 5CC will survive, and if it doesnt then..well it is time to look for other alternatives. But i assure you that all the pros and players will play around with 5CC when Zendikar rotates in.

The deck itself has most of the matchups in its favor (with some exceptions of course) but there isn't a perfect deck, and even if people think that there is one, WotC will do something about it (If not ask Fae players what happened when 5CC started to use Great Sable Stag + Volcanic Fallout :D)

The only way that 5CC could die when zendikar rotates in is if WotC doesn't give us good :u: stuff, otherwise 5CC is in the fight.

If i offended you, any of you, please accept my most sincere apologies, but you can't determine the next STD enviroment based in some spoiled cards, granted they can give you an insight, but that's it.

(I put fire repelent and take my shield from under my bed)

Cheers.

agracru

08-31-2009, 06:27 PM

Fire repellent isn't necessary right here, I think. You're well spoken.

I hear what you're saying about 5CC, but the mana base is the killer. It really is. At least for me. Vivids and Pool are infinitely superior to the current crop of "fixing" at our disposal in Shards, and Zendikar most likely won't add anything new to the mix to remedy the loss of 5CC's mana base. Yes, 5CC is "playable" in Block, yes, you have Rupture Spire and tri lands. This isn't a question of predicting the meta based off of a handful of spoiled cards; this is basic logic according to what makes 5CC work in the current environment. Without the mana fixing of Lowryn/Shadowmoor blocks, 5CC is going to have a lot of trouble dealing with new decks that don't have half the mana issues that it does. That, more than Cryptic Command, is the wind under 5CC's wings; there will likely be a staple counterspell and a staple card-drawing spell in Zendikar, but what 5CC needs to survive is smooth and reliable mana. I don't see that happening.

I agree that players will probably try 5CC, and I'm sure that the pros will too. I don't think it'll last. I'm happy to admit that I could be wrong on the whole thing, and again my opinion on the matter may derive mostly from the fact that good God I hate 5CC and I don't want to see a 5-color environment anymore.

And for me, 5CC ultimately became pretty boring. It's not any more skill intensive than other control decks I've played, and when you get to play all of the best cards in a format...eh. It lost its appeal for me.

I also don't know how we can say that 5CC in October has any number of matches in its favor, since there isn't a meta yet. The current 5CC deck has great match-ups, but that won't be the deck people are able to play in October.

Minion_of_Gleemax

09-01-2009, 07:13 AM

I don't think 5cc will survive the rotation, because 5cc really never existed before the rotation--of ravnica that is. The concept of a 5 color deck has been viable very few times in magic's history. It was the existance of reflecting pool, vivid's, and filters in lorwyn block that made it possible. The tri-lands may be a replacement, but I think they will be too clunky. My guess is that 3cc or maybe at most 4cc will become more popular simply due to higher consistency. Will 5cc be possible? Of course. But I think it will be a shadow of its former self.