New Dual Lands

[Dyne]

Ashwood Forest

Ashwood Forest enters the battlfield tapped unless you control a Mountain or a Forest.

Add :g: or :r: to your mana pool

Deolate Cairns

Desolate Cairns enters the battlfield tapped unless you control a Swamp or a Mountain.

Add :b: or :r: to your mana pool

Floral Clearing

Floral Clearing enters the battlfield tapped unless you control a Forest or a Plains.

Add :g: or :w: to your mana pool

Glacial Fortress

Glacial Fortress enters the battlfield tapped unless you control an Island or a Plains.

Add :u: or :w: to your mana pool

Murky Tidewater

Murky Tideater enters the battlfield tapped unless you control an Island or a Swamp.

Add :b: or :u: to your mana pool

Not too shabby. They're all Rare.

[Gren]

I like them. I was thinking they'd be a cycle of the Future Sight land Nimbus Maze, but this is pretty close, and easy to use effectively.

Will it just be an allied-colour cycle? I'd have assumed there'd be non-allieds as well.

[Minion_of_Gleemax]

Have these been confirmed? And if so, hooray more basic land love! :)

[agracru]

I feel like I read or heard somewhere that only 5 duals were being printed, in which case what we see is what we get. I'm really not at all sure where I'm getting this impression though, so don't take what I say seriously.

[Dyne]

Have these been confirmed? And if so, hooray more basic land love! :)

Yes, they are. They were previewed on WotC this morning.

No, they are only allied colors. There are no enemy color duals in this set.

[agracru]

That's what I thought. Everyone is trying to tell me otherwise, though.

Well, except for you, but anyways.

[iforgot120]

They're not bad, but I won't be happy until I get a new set of fetchlands.

[raybomb]

http://wizards.com/mtg/images/daily/features/42a_02o4sozpie_EN.jpg

[DraconisMarch]

The art is epic.

But I want enemy colors.

Screw this! I'm goin' home.

[Dyne]

They're not bad, but I won't be happy until I get a new set of fetchlands.

Keep wishing.

[Magus0fdaMoon]

i think they can be broken, but not that bad, they do require basics, unless the player doesnt care about CITPT

[RoninX]

Well - basically this is a new cycle of "strictly better" CIPT lands... a la the Lorwyn lands, but without the tribal theme. Seems fine, irritating that they are once again rare - but since collecting wraths and lands is 90% of what drives the Core Set sells I guess it isn't surprising.

In fact, these are so close to vanilla that all the talk of "not wanting your lands to hurt you" seems like a pretty thin smoke screen designed to validate the choice to publish a previously unreleased dual cycle in order to boost the aforementioned sales... but hey, times are tough all around.

[LibraPoet]

Without being overly dramatic, it is times like this that help me understand why, as money concerns tighten belts around my house, MTG looks to be largely on the "cutting block." Here Wizards throws at us an entire block focused on multi-colored cards; specifically, the decks are intended to have a three-color focus.

Now, in M10, they give us lands that:

Only produce two colors
Come into play tapped unless we have basics in play
Only provide "allied" color pairs

The first two clauses I could have lived with, really; basic lands need to make a resurgence on the competitive scene. Its the third clause, however, that bothers me; to revert now to the days of core sets emphasizing allied pairs, without any support for decks like BW, or UR, is simply ridiculous. Truly it is.

Overall I think M10 has thus far been a bad move on the part of WOTC. Coupled with removing combat damage from the stack, I simply think this set will harm more than hurts where existing players are concerned. My final take: I hope WOTC succeeds in pulling in newer players; In my opinion, they are going to need them.

[175grams]

Why rare? Why not make them easier to get than 1 every 15 or so packs? I'd much rather them be uncommon.

[Vachyr]

I like these lands, and am very excited for M10. Ball Lightning? yes please!

[Destroyer51]

They're not bad, but I won't be happy until I get a new set of fetchlands.

this.

Why rare? Why not make them easier to get than 1 every 15 or so packs? I'd much rather them be uncommon.

and this. they are rare just so wizards can continue to bring in more money, since everyone will need playsets for their deck. dear wizards: stop printing new dual lands. print ones that i already own so i can play standard. or make them uncommon.

personally, i would have just preferred them to reprint shocklands... i won't be playing standard until they do.

[BigGreen73]

Have these been confirmed? And if so, hooray more basic land love! :)

I agree with you on that...

[Jupiterstorm]

Welcome to one of the slowest formats of all time if zendikar doesn provide decent mana fix. With the vivids, reflecting pools and filters rotating out in october, all the standard environment will have left is this set of duals with no enemy pairings, the tri tap lands from shards, the borderposts and lets see, NOTHING!

[tvervolg]

The new duals look great, it's a shame that they're just lands and not plains-island so you can search them.

[RoninX]

OK, I am actually coming around on these a bit. They should play well with shards while still encouraging a more heavily basic (or Rav land in Ext) manabase (and for a short while might allow me to splash anathemancer into Doran). Bascially they encourage Rgb or Uwb without allowing you to go 4-5 color too easily (at least once vivids and filters rotate). And I'm ok with that.

[jayliminator]

i dont know about u guys but it seems like type 2 has been in this three+ color fixation for 2 very long years. comming from a person who started playing back in onslaught. i am thrilled at the prospect of a posible 2 color or (heaven forbid) a mono colored format once again.


a guy can dream, cant he

[agracru]

I'm digging on the idea of a two/mono-colored format, so long as the mana-base is there to support more than just allied color combinations. Othewise I gathered my playset of Maelstrom Pulses for nothing.

But if M10 doesn't provide this enemy color support, maybe Zendikar will, though this seems unlikely if Wizards really wants to keep us from going totally crazy with color combinations.

Basically I'm all for an environment that isn't all about tri+ color decks, so long as that environment has mana that supports cards like Pulse without opening up the possibility of decks like 5CB.

[Drumfreak101]

I wish they were uncommons. Gonna be WAY too hard to get your hands on these. The 10th duals were uncommons and look at how hard it is to get them! Anyway, these are like really good borderposts. Since they don't have to come into "the battlefield" tapped. Really think they screwed up the rarity, but hey, they might prove worthy.

[Drumfreak101]

another thing. Completely different from the lands (almost). Core sets usually do come round to mono-colored, so how plausible do you guys think it would be to bring back the (color/2) shadowmoor uncommons? Flame Javelin, Spectral, etc. They DO fit the mono-color scheme, but also provide some slight relief for very multi-colored decks.

[RoninX]

I wish they were uncommons. Gonna be WAY too hard to get your hands on these. The 10th duals were uncommons and look at how hard it is to get them! Anyway, these are like really good borderposts. Since they don't have to come into "the battlefield" tapped. Really think they screwed up the rarity, but hey, they might prove worthy.

The Xth duals were rares... just like they always have been.

@Jay - there are an awful lot of hints that we are definitely moving away from 3+ colors being the norm. Of course, they won't entirely depart standard until Shards leaves but by mid summer next year we could definitely be facing less colorful world.

[agracru]

Part of me is tempted to argue that the new duals would be better classed as Uncommon, but I feel like that would be disingenuous. They're fine as Rares; they're good enough to get the job done but not so overtuned that they'll fetch sums as high as what the Ravnica duals still go for.

[rwhitisissle]

Hmm. Apparently WoTC wants us (Type 2 players) to make slower decks. I'm fine with that, there's nothing I love more than a long game of magic with my friends. The only problem is that this is going to cause problems with 3+ color decks. Having just released an all-gold set and then giving us what I believe to be sub-par lands means that they're either going to release artifact mana fixers or they're going to want us to be very, very careful with how we use our colors. Oh well, now I have to go back and fix the mana for all the standard decks I've been designing *sigh*

[darkjedipete]

The new lands are pretty underwhelming no doubt. Standard will slow down alot because of that. However, after Lorwyn rotates out, it will be extended season. So by the time people start playing standard again, we will have zendikar lands out by then. One can only hope we'll get some more exciting things from the new block.

[iforgot120]

Keep wishing.
I pray every night. You should too.

[MillstoneMan]

Part of me is tempted to argue that the new duals would be better classed as Uncommon, but I feel like that would be disingenuous. They're fine as Rares; they're good enough to get the job done but not so overtuned that they'll fetch sums as high as what the Ravnica duals still go for.

Can't say I agree. The biggest issue I had with the Ravnica duals was the price tag. I was playing tri-color then and up here in Canada those were fetching 15-20 bones apiece. The painlands were still $8-$10 each.
If you are trying to bring new blood to the game, the cards need to be more accessible. One shouldn't have to be shelling out 100+ dollars for your manabase. Look at this site. If you were to buy almost any top deck from this site you are looking at $500- $600 dollars. Not a way to attract new players.
And don't bother with the "Wizards has no control over that" horsesh*t arguement. They know EXACTLY the way the market works. In these economic times, there is no reason they can't print these lands at uncommon.

[OdiousMesmerism]

In spite of the whole "Wizards just wants money" premise, there's a reason why these new dual lands are rare.

For one, it's good that they're coming out with something different that can be very much compatible to the aformentioned Ravnica dual lands. This compliments well with Extended players because the Ravnica lands are considered Basic according to their mana base (Forest, Plains, etc.) Additionally, while they stray away from the painlands we're used to from each core set, this allows room for basic lands to see play; something we already know. If individuals are still disputing as to why these lands aren't uncommon: take another look. If they were uncommon they'd be identical copies of the Invasion non-basics, while carrying the Might of Alara syndrome. Also, seeing that Shards of Alara came out with tri-mana-based non-basics, why aren't they rare? Because there is no option for them to come into play untapped. These new non-basics have that option, otherwise you'll be treating them like uncommons. So, in short, there will be ways with working around these new lands. And like I have said before, Zendikar lands will be the determining factor as to how M2010 lands will work with them.

The rest is up to us: by creating new ideas.

While we can point the finger, the remaining fingers are pointing at us.

[agracru]

Can't say I agree. The biggest issue I had with the Ravnica duals was the price tag. I was playing tri-color then and up here in Canada those were fetching 15-20 bones apiece. The painlands were still $8-$10 each.


$8 is a reasonable price, and that's where these duals will settle. They won't end up at Ravnica dual prices, or even fetchland prices.

$8 might still seem "high", but playing competitive Magic isn't cheap. This is also why people trade with each other.

[iforgot120]

Shock lands aren't even $20; on average you can buy one for $13.

[MillstoneMan]

Shock lands aren't even $20; on average you can buy one for $13.

Maybe they are now - and that is what - 2 years after the fact? At the time, I was paying 15-20 each from the store in my town.

[JohnnyRed]

Overall, while I was expecting something completely different, since they advertised them as "powerful new duals", but I'm not going to complain. I like the push to basic lands, and these duals make newer players a little more prone to making the leap to competitive. Most newer players had no problem spending money on mana fixing, but they hated spending money on lands that hurt them. Most newer players are very risk-averse....

They still work with Shocks in Extended, possibly making the format more interactive, while also encouraging the model set forth in Shards. Three color decks are more easily designed now when they are a core color with two splashes.

[Monochrome_Lotus]

Personally, I've always thought that making the dual lands in Core sets rare was one of the better decisions Wizards makes.. and am especially glad to see it here, in this new Core that is so aimed at bringing people into the game. Here's how it works for me, usually:

New Player: "Aw, crickey! I got one of those lands! I understand that they help smooth your mana supply, but I don't care about smooth mana in my mono-colored Black Demons (or White Angels, or Green Stompy, etc) deck! I wanted a big fatty demon!"
Me: "Well, I don't especially like the idea of big stompy demons, so I'll give you my demons for your lands."
Both: "Yay!"

[Please note: I'm not suggesting that I rip people off, or that anybody else should.. I often try to get others, especially new players, to realize that they're behind on a trade.. it's just so very equitable when everybody gets what they want]

[DraconisMarch]

How hard would it be if they just decided to give them basic land types so they didn't suck? This example from another forum:

Glacial Fortress
Land - Plains Island

Glacial Fortress enters the battlfield tapped unless you control another Island or a Plains.

Add :w: or :u: to your mana pool.

That would be a billion times better. And make them have decent synergy. (I.E. Wild Nacatl.)

And like I said before, the fact that they didn't print enemy colors is just plain retarded. Enemy colors were my favorite (esp. :w::b:, :b::g:, and :u::r:.)

[justactcasual]

There's an old joke - um... two elderly women are at a Catskill mountain resort, and one of 'em says, "Boy, the food at this place is really terrible." The other one says, "Yeah, I know; and such small portions."

These new duals are good in that they are strong enough to actually see play while still weak enough to force choices. In allied 2 colour decks these are going to be Beta lands a lot of the time: even in allied wedge decks they have little downside. Enemy coloured decks or 4+ coloured decks are just going to have to live with more difficult mana or *gasp* using green for mana fixing. Those difficulties and the choices they force in chosing and/or constructing a deck are part of what makes the game more fun and challenging.

And everyone knows that more choices provide more chances for a skilled player to shine. ;)

[GoblinToken]

These are exactly the sort of lands we need to make two colored and even smartly crafted three color decks run smoothly while ensuring that it won't be easy to put something like Cloudthresher in the same deck as something like Cryptic Command.

Magic deck building is based around making sacrifices here and there to make the deck work better overall. I look forward to not being able to put any cards we want into a deck regardless of the symbols in the upper right corner.

[Scott916]

I think the design and rarity of the new lands are both good. The lack of enemy colored duals is a real let-down though.

[pastorofmuppets]

We still have enemy-color lands they're just CIPT...

[agracru]

Yes, but people are wishing for enemy-colored lands along the lines of what's in M10.

On one hand, plenty of enemy-colored cards were printed in Alara Reborn (most notably Lord of Extinction and Maelstrom Pulse, as well as Lorescale Coatl), so the addition of enemy-colored duals along the lines of what we've seen so far might not be that far-fetched, as such an addition encourages further dual-colored archetypes and allows cards to be played that might otherwise not in a dual-colored format.

On the other hand, more duals means more access to more mana which can lead to stupid things.

I have a feeling allied-colored lands are all we're going to get, and enemy-colored cards like Pulse will find homes in the few stable tri-color decks that make an impact. (Such as Jund.)

[SGTslappy]

Are incinerates and Dark Rituals getting reprinted? The lands are nice by the way. Wonder what the Red Black will look like.

[Phenix]

Art makes me think of The Wall in the George R. R. Martin books!

[Dyne]

I pray every night. You should too.

I do.

I would love a UR or UG Fetch. That would make my head explode.

And to the people saying the format will slow down. I really don't believe you.

I say this because:

1) You haven't even used M10 with the current card pool, mainly because it's not released or even half spoiled yet.

2) When Lorwyn/Shadowmoor rotate out, Zendikar rotates in, and we have absolutely no idea what's in that set.

So, you can say the format will slow down all you want, but, truth be told, you really have no idea.

[agracru]

If anything I would actually expect the environment to become slightly faster, but that's just a feeling I'm getting from seeing Ball Lightning reprinted. Could the format slow down? Sure, but I don't really know that there's any distinct indication of this happening; the new duals don't really scream "slower format in October" to me, because in most decks they won't come into play tapped outside of the first turn when the player has nothing to do with 1 mana.

[SquirrelFang]

I am personally okay with anything Wizards does to get rid of 4 and 5 color decks. I think they should offer some support for 3 color still, considering come October Shards will be the main backbone of Standard. But I would not be heartbroken if they went out of their way to make mana bases impossible for 4 and 5 colors. It never made sense to me that a deck could play Cryptic Command, Cloudthresher, Wrath, Volcanic Fallout, and still manage the black for Cruel Ultimatum. I won't cry when decks like that disappear. I'll rejoice and dance and sing. Maybe literally. I welcome these new lands that push for basic land use in Standard. Maybe some of my friends will play with me more, because I won't have the $100+ mana base. It'll be fine.

[kurisu95]

I actually think they are better than the Pain Lands of 10E. If there were enemy colors (Zendikar?) then these would be awesome. I like how they don't deal damage, and usually don't come into play tapped.

[Blackmage]

I can imagine how manabases are going to look like for 3 color decks!! The slots are going to be used by Filterlands, Reflecting Pool, Tri-lands...there is no space for basics. And these duals really shine if you run a lot of basics. Does this mean we will have to use Borderposts, and stuff like Terramorphic Expanse??

Since Zendikar isnt multicolored we cant expect better lands than these (and these are supposed to be awesome). I mean, Shards gave us Tri-lands+Borderposts for reliable mana fixing and its a multicolor block! The only way Shards is going to be playable when Zendikar comes out is if it comes with Duals with basic land types or some sort of fetch lands.

[SquirrelFang]

I'm betting Zendikar will come with the cycle that includes Nimbus Maze (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=136045). With the new duals pushing basic lands it would make sense to see that cycle printed. The only problem comes in if it doesn't get enemy color combinations as well. But if that happens I'm sure we'll find a way around that. The game wants us to use basic lands. 3 color is going to be playable but perhaps a little slower than it has been. 4 and 5 color won't be without being too slow to last against the new and upcoming 1-3 color decks that I'm sure will happen. I really am hoping to see the Nimbus Maze cycle though. That would be hot.

[Necromancer]

Are these the worst duals seen since the Ice Age depletion lands?

[PlatypusPlatoon]

I'm a big fan of these new duals. They're very powerful for 2-colour decks, and may even find a home in 3-colour decks. The requirement for basic land types means that Vivid / Reflecting Pool decks need not apply (although they combo very well in Extended with the Ravnica duals). In the mid & late game, they're even better than the Ravnica duals, as they'll almost certainly enter play.. oops, the battlefied.. untapped. The early turns, particularly turn 1, is where these lands falter a bit, and as aggro decks need all the juice they can get in the early going, these lands are not especially well-suited to churning out blisteringly fast starts. Still, though, very strong, and an improvement over the painlands we've been suffering with for a decade.

I'm gonna pick up my playset as soon as possible - assuming these don't hit $15 a piece right out of the gate.

[kurisu95]

Are these the worst duals seen since the Ice Age depletion lands?

No, they aren't at all. In fact, there the best lands since the Pain Lands. I've said this all already, but they don't deal damage, and most of the time don't come into play tapped. The only thing most people are disappointed about is that they aren't in enemy colors. But as most sets have ten dual lands, we'll probably see five more with enemy colors, just have to wait and see.

(Post #666)

[Necromancer]

Hmm....I definitely like the ones that you can pay life to keep from coming into play tapped better, but to each their own. If they're making these rares, I would much rather have seen a fetchland reprinting.

[agracru]

Hmm....I definitely like the ones that you can pay life to keep from coming into play tapped better, but to each their own.

I think everyone does, but that doesn't mean we're ever going to see the Shocklands get reprinted. Or the Fetchlands.