Mill Discussion

[KnightofDestan]

As you all know this deck Exists for nearly every Deck playing type.
But none for Mill until now!
IMO Mill are too underated,rare but yet powerfull.



Topics:


1.Should mill decks have a chance to be top tier decks?


2.Which is the most effective mill deck?
(OTM,drawmill,traditional aggro ,traditional stall/control)

3.Will mill decks be able to survive currant top decks?

Disscus!!


BTW mill guide in my sig

[YaMi_YuGi18]

finally.... my second home.

mill decks, imo, need to make an uprising.
they are very powerful, yet you hardly see anyone run them.
more people have become interested in DAD, or Macro, (mostly just decks posted over the internet)
mill decks come in many different playing types.
but imo i think that the OTM is the strongest possible mill deck.
one turn and you win. whats more powerful than that in this certain gameplay??
but on with the discussion

Top teir mill??
its very very possible, but with the more powerful cards coming out, it has a very very slim chance of becoming one of those "popular" builds. (i looked on youtube for "mill deck" and i only had about 35 videos of mill decks, now when you look up DAD, or Lightsworn the videos go on and on.)

most people (about 70-75%) believe that the more money you put in, the stronger the cards, the better the deck will be.
well that is true for most builds. but if you wanna cheap, affordable way to get to the top, play a mill.

other than that.... Mill has to be my favorite deck to run.
if you run mill, or at least have knowledge, or wanna learn.... post here.
later

[Dragons_Quest]

Chaos Mill will be the deck to make it top tier 1.

[YaMi_YuGi18]

hopefully.
but you have to consider that most people will still keep up the the DAD, lightsworn, and all of that other good stuff.
chaos mill might make it, but it all depends on the "card stream" that is pumped through out the world.
they will continually manufacture cards that "revolutionize" the game.
well if they come out with products that are more powerful than dad, more agile than lightsworn, then that will lead to the early banning of those cards, and thus give the chaos mill deck a chance.
only problem is that we dont know which way the game is gonna go.
.... were pretty much leaving it in the hands of the consumers, and konami.

[Dragons_Quest]

Well once i get my 2 copies of gold sarc that all I will be playing in tournaments the deck is quite good. I just have to firgure out how to beat bw I have never tested the deck against blackwing yet.

[YaMi_YuGi18]

well give me a decklist and i can try to help you out.
i mean if its not a problem.

[Dragons_Quest]

Chaos Mill (http://forum.tcgplayer.com/showthread.php?t=179055)

I need to add in solemn judgment not sure what to take out plus I need an effective side deck aginst bw and other top tier #1 deck.

[YaMi_YuGi18]

ok question #1. how many solemns are you wanting to put in??

and just FYI, im not to advanced on the whole "side decking" scenario but i shall try my best. (just dont yell at me if i make a whoopsie)

[Dragons_Quest]

Well 3 solemn i dont care if you make whoopsies you just trying to help and give me idea only problem I run into is does gale get priority to use her effect i was thinking maybe siding weed out.

[YaMi_YuGi18]

I think maybe 2 or 3 copies of weed out would work, and i think Gale's effect does give her priority (not entirely sure but later on i have a buddy i can ask)
as for the solemns, im having a hard time deciding what to take out.
im not sure if i wanna take out MST or not.

as for that side deck
weed out should be considered, heavy storm (as a back up plan), maybe the MST should be put in the side for now...
and thats all i have so far.

[Dragons_Quest]

Here's what I thought of for a side deck for my chaos mill I think it covers all the basis.

3 Solemn Judgment
2 Weed Out
2 Nobleman of Extermination
2 Threating Roar
2 Kycoo
2 Divine Wrath
2 Trap Stun

[YaMi_YuGi18]

acutally, you know what.... i think that might work.
the only sure way to find out is to test it.
dont just test it against other decks, but since your trying to out due blackwings, i would do a lot of field testing on those, and find the weakness that you can use to your advantage.

[one-with-the-bugs]

The empty jar otk in my sig works pretty well, albeit inconsistant at times. I'm a big fan of mill decks, so I'll keep my eyes on this thread.

[KnightofDestan]

oh cool^^ found some mill fans..as you can see IÄm one too and think that mills really rock

chaoas mills might work there is one in my mill guide..you only need to change it a bit^^

for chaos mill its important too have cards like D.>D.R or escape from another dimensiona and so on to get back necroface and remove again, th point is you should be careful that your opponent deck outs, not you^^

needle worm is also usefull since this thinens your opponents deck making him lose before your milled

[Dragons_Quest]

For the Chaos mill build I thought maybe Thunderking Rai-oh could be used it will stop B-Whilrwind and other decks that search for card to their hands. What do you guys think. I came two this conclusion on a side deck which works better for deck that swarm

3 Solemn Judgment
2 Needle Ceiling
2 Nobleman of Extermination
2 Threating Roar
2 Mind Crush
2 Divine Wrath
2 D.D. Crow

[YaMi_YuGi18]

im thinking maybe a couple of dark bribes should be in there somewhere.
skill drain is a killer.
dark bribe definitely would be a helpful factor there.
destroy the card, opp draws one, mill him again. lol
sooo...
-2 mind crush
+2 dark bribe.
just my honest opinion.

[Dragons_Quest]

If you have seen my newest deck if not it is in my sig chaos mill. I have a question. What would your side deck choice for cards be? I am thinking of representing the mill fan club for regionals in my area. Please note that we might see if it is out Meta-Cat, Skill Drain, Ls, Gb and Bw as the main decks where I will be dueling. Regional is on June 14. I need a good selection of cards to help me win. Let me know what your guys ideas are cuz I want to win for team mill. After the tournament I'll post my results on our mill thread.

[KnightofDestan]

so whats your main meta??or is it rather a good mix?

[Dragons_Quest]

The meta I think I should be seeing for regionals are Bw and Ls for Main Decks. In the middle of the pack is Skill Drain and Gb might be played. It will be on June 14 so I'm not sure how many Arcanite cats decks I might see so the meta should be like this.

Meta-Cat
Bw
Ls
Skill Drain
Gb

[YaMi_YuGi18]

whoa... that an entirely different meta than what you see here.
here, very few people run black wings, or skill drain. they wanna go with either the remove from play strategy, or just a glad beast beatdown.
children.... they will never learn.
and to Knight's post a couple of days ago, about the "decks" that i faced.
i went 10 and 5 at the locals a week ago.
the decks that were mostly brought to the table were (stated above)

3 gb
2 lightsworn
1 burn
4 dad
and 1 zombie synchro
... now in consolidation with that....
the decks that are around here are straight off of the internet.
some have slight changes, but not much.
but, i whooped 'em. lol.
im now running and empty jar deck, plus im working on a OTM mill deck that i will post shortly. (as soon as i figure out what i wanna run)
later

[KnightofDestan]

I can give you some advice in which direction do yu want to go?

[YaMi_YuGi18]

just a question...
is it in the mill guide?? ( i saved it on my desktop. lol)
feel special. lol

[KnightofDestan]

no I wanted to give some personal advice^^

[YaMi_YuGi18]

well... cant argue with that. lol

anyone else notice that this thread has been dead for the past couple of days??
i wait, and wait for someone to post something interesting on here..... and it never happens...
*sigh* is mill really that "under-rated"??

[KnightofDestan]

yeah it is...I thought about making a stall morph mill...but needs time and ideas, maybe you can help out

[YaMi_YuGi18]

sure thing, i have no problem helping out a fellow "miller". lol

but i changed my mill deck around just a bit.

giant rat x3
deckoichi x2
morphing jar x2
needle worm x2
des lacoda
morphing jar
spear cretin
spirit reaper

Magic:
magical mallet x3
B.O.E x2
B.O.M x2
cup of ace x2
P.O.A x2
Reload x2
Shrink x2
card destruction
magical stone excavation
swords of R. light
The shallow grave

Traps:
C.E.D x3
Jar of Greed x2
Reckless greed x2
torrential tribute.

the only cards that i changed were
sangan - des lacoda
enemy controller x2 - shrink x2

whatcha think??

[KnightofDestan]

I don't know those it run smother?

this would be my idea, from scrape paper

17
2Celfons
3Needle Worms
1Morphing Jar
1spear cretin
3Morphtronic Mangen
3Morphtronic Boarden
3Defender
1Marshmallown

3Upstart Goblin
3Book of Eclipse
1card destruction
2Shallow Grave
3cup of ace
1swords of R. light
2gold sorphogucs

9
3Reckless greed
3Jar of Greed
3Morphtronic Bind

[Angel__O7]

a guy at my locals made a build with Morphing Jar, Morphing Jar #2's, Needle Worms and All Out Attacks... it seems interesting... but Necroface seems like a much better mill card to use.

[KnightofDestan]

yeah thats a emtpy jar deck...necroface..well it mills yourself too so you have to be careful...

[braminoid]

a guy at my locals made a build with Morphing Jar, Morphing Jar #2's, Needle Worms and All Out Attacks... it seems interesting... but Necroface seems like a much better mill card to use.
My friend had a smilar build to that , except he was running Immortals of thunder and Morphing Jar # 2 as he's only monsters. So he used stall card on till he got them on the field used All Out Attacks got Infinate life-points.

yeah thats a emtpy jar deck...necroface..well it mills yourself too so you have to be careful...

I'm pretty sure if you're running Needle worms the possiblity is un-likey.

[Dragons_Quest]

What do you think would be the best necro deck to play?

[KnightofDestan]

theres one in my mill guide that can be a really deadly mill...only have to change itt

[ooibhuskyoo]

I'm kind of confused about the AOA, MJ2, Needle Worm combo. When you flip MJ2 and the combo starts, when you SS MJ2 and Needle Worm face down, then AOA activates, does Needle worm and MJ2's filp effects activate simultaneously? If it does, then which happens first, Needle Worm or MJ2?

Sorry... I'm a mill noob and I think the empty jar build is so sickening (in a good way, of course)

[KnightofDestan]

needle worm then mj2 and the loop ends when your opponents deck is milled out..the point is you should have any other monsters in your deck or you'll kill your loop...

check out my sig btw the guide

[YaMi_YuGi18]

the "mill" process starts like this.
1. mj#2 and needle w. are set on the field along with AOA
2. flip needle worm first, mill 5.
3. flip Mj#2 and start the cycle
4. flip AOA and thats when it acitvates.
5. special summon your monsters, and you have to flip the first one that you special summoned.
(its best to run 3 Mj#2, 3 needle worm, and possibly a Mj.)
2 monsters set on the field is the best way to get the process starting.
you should get mj#2 and needle worms on the field everytime, either that or 2 mj#2 or 2 needle worms (if 2 needle worms is the case, its best to have a fall back plan like book of moon of book of eclipse)
and there ya go.

and Knight... to the question if it runs smoother
it does quite well. no joke.

[KnightofDestan]

the "mill" process starts like this.

and Knight... to the question if it runs smoother
it does quite well. no joke.

what do you mean by this?

[YaMi_YuGi18]

actually....
i ran it again today, and it was pretty much the same thing as my last deck.
im trying to go for the OTM deck.
but im missing a couple of crucial cards
(1 needle worm, 1 morphing jar #2 and 3 AOA)
it sux not having the cards you need for a certain deck type

[KnightofDestan]

hmm they are acctually easy to get....

[YaMi_YuGi18]

not around here.
no one, and i mean NO ONE carries the old cards any more.
i mean they still carry morphing jar's, and torrentials, you know stuff like that.
but it was hell trying to get the 2 needle worms, and 2 morphing jar #2's that i have now.
ugh.... I need those cards.
ill sell cheeseburgers for them or something.

plus the deck types out here, dont really run AOA
and ive been looking for them for the past two weeks.
this blows

but on a good note, I'm pretty comfortable with the deck i have now.
just waiting for those cards to come my way so i can get even more comfortable with the Strat-a-play im gonna be running.
look out locals... here comes OTM. lol

[KnightofDestan]

All-Out Attacks is easy since its a phantom of chaos common..the biggest problem is morph. 2 since he has almost no reprints...

[YaMi_YuGi18]

i know they are common too.
but hardly anyone has one or three.
ive ran across one person who had 1... just 1.
but anyways.
back on topic. oo.. ya. not only that but everyone that i know that at least has needle worms, runs them. it ridiculous. lol
but anyways,
trying to come up with a dino/mill/removal strategy.
mill the monsters, remove them, give Infinity tyranno a huge boost.
not having very good luck as of right now.

[KnightofDestan]

yeah but that would rather be a self mill via lightsworn

[KnightofDestan]

bumping for mill

[YaMi_YuGi18]

true it would have to go with the lightsworns, but i wanna find a different way to harness the power of "mill" and fuse it together with another deck type.
something that would give me a early game lead to a late game edge.

[KnightofDestan]

and how does this way look like?

[Yaykebab]

Well, if anyone wants a *BRAND NEW* and super shiny version of a Mill deck, then I have one for you:

Monsters: 6

3 Morphing Jar #2
3 Royal Magical Library

Spells: 32

3 Hand Destruction
3 Dark World Dealings
3 Upstart Goblin
3 Toon Table of Contents
3 Enemy Controller
3 Book of Moon
3 Stray Lambs
3 Fiend's Sanctuary
3 Magical Mallet
3 Reload
1 Card Destruction
1 Swords of Revealing Light

Traps: 3

3 Magical Explosion

Deck Idea: Use M Jar #2 to mill through deck's incredible amount of Spells, then play Magical Explosion FTW. I call it: Cookie Jar Explosion!!

[KnightofDestan]

Well, if anyone wants a *BRAND NEW* and super shiny version of a Mill deck, then I have one for you:

Monsters: 6

3 Morphing Jar #2
3 Royal Magical Library

Spells: 32

3 Hand Destruction
3 Dark World Dealings
3 Upstart Goblin
3 Toon Table of Contents
3 Enemy Controller
3 Book of Moon
3 Stray Lambs
3 Fiend's Sanctuary
3 Magical Mallet
3 Reload
1 Card Destruction
1 Swords of Revealing Light

Traps: 3

3 Magical Explosion

Deck Idea: Use M Jar #2 to mill through deck's incredible amount of Spells, then play Magical Explosion FTW. I call it: Cookie Jar Explosion!!

:D
you must be a fan of cookies..
maybe all atack out for a reall loop and maybe a poison mumie to burn^^


have you tested it?and does it work?

[YaMi_YuGi18]

this way... hmmmm... u know actually i really dont know. havent had time to build a deck that way. lol

and to the "cookie jar exPLOSION"....
i love it. lol.
awesome draw power, excellent mill power, and FTW.. freaking awesome. lol

[ooibhuskyoo]

+1 for AOA's in the "cookie jar explosion"

There's no real way in your deck to loop MJ2 without AOA

I would either take out the libraries and add n. worms or side deck the n. worms. If you're going to have AOA in your deck, you might as well try to land the MJ2, n. worm, AOA combo for that.... empty cookie jar explosion...

I would call the deck.. "who stole the cookies from the cookie jar?"

HAHA...bringing it back to my childhood...sorry

[Yaykebab]

Thanks for the feedback :D

The problems with it are milling out through M.Explosion and getting a Dead Hand Early game. Another problem is keeping monsters out for M.Jar to return. I need to know if it would work with Tokens or not.

[KnightofDestan]

hmm bump..

try using scapegoat

[YaMi_YuGi18]

scapegoat is a good stall card, only problem is that its easy to counter (most stall cards are)
but i would go with scapegoat.

BUMP

[KnightofDestan]

hmm...there doesn't seam to be a mill in ANPR or SOVR

[carrottopguy]

I like mill, but I disagree with you that OTM is going to be the top. it's definetley going to be some sort of disruption morphing jar #2 deck. with all the insane responsive stuff you can play against Arcanite Cat to shut down it's combos, and the fact that morphing jar #2 can take out synchros better than pretty much any other card makes the deck great. Plus, it is the only build that abuses needle worm and the regular morphing jar, which, in my mind, makes it even better. Add the fact that of all the different apperances of mill in higher level feature matches on metagame were all morphing jar #2 builds, and it becomes plain that the deck has been proven time and time again to be consistent and deadly. I personally love the deck, and with book of eclipse, they now have more chainable defense and synergy than ever! They are definetly a tournament worthy deck.

[YaMi_YuGi18]

all mills are powerful it just depends on the way the player builds them, puts time and effort into testing them, and how much determination the put into the modifications.
now, OTM is probably the most effective mill i have seen and ran with.
nothing is more deadly than milling your opponents cards, milling your deck (yet putting cards back in) getting the cards you need fast, then going for the final play of the game.

now with the whole arcanite cat build,
there are a bunch of ways you can incorporate "disruption" into a mill deck.
dark bribes, giant trunade, heavy storm, lightning vortex and the list goes on and on.
the key factor here is getting the right build for the right plays.

but other than that... thanks for posting (this thread has been kinda dead for the past week or so)
later

[KnightofDestan]

I like mill, but I disagree with you that OTM is going to be the top. it's definetley going to be some sort of disruption morphing jar #2 deck. with all the insane responsive stuff you can play against Arcanite Cat to shut down it's combos, and the fact that morphing jar #2 can take out synchros better than pretty much any other card makes the deck great. Plus, it is the only build that abuses needle worm and the regular morphing jar, which, in my mind, makes it even better. Add the fact that of all the different apperances of mill in higher level feature matches on metagame were all morphing jar #2 builds, and it becomes plain that the deck has been proven time and time again to be consistent and deadly. I personally love the deck, and with book of eclipse, they now have more chainable defense and synergy than ever! They are definetly a tournament worthy deck.


just for your information MJ2 decks ARE OTm decks...

read my guide

[YaMi_YuGi18]

im not so sure he knows about the MJ#2, Needle worm, and AOA combo

nuub. lol :p

[KnightofDestan]

thats why I sead to use my guide^^I hope that they get support soon, a mil structure deck would be interessting^^

[YaMi_YuGi18]

dude if a mill structure deck came out, i would definitely buy 20 of them. lol
thats a lot of power for a structure deck..... it could be possible

[BigStinkin'Ape]

finally.... my second home.

mill decks, imo, need to make an uprising.
they are very powerful, yet you hardly see anyone run them.
more people have become interested in DAD, or Macro, (mostly just decks posted over the internet)
mill decks come in many different playing types.
but imo i think that the OTM is the strongest possible mill deck.
one turn and you win. whats more powerful than that in this certain gameplay??
but on with the discussion

Top teir mill??
its very very possible, but with the more powerful cards coming out, it has a very very slim chance of becoming one of those "popular" builds. (i looked on youtube for "mill deck" and i only had about 35 videos of mill decks, now when you look up DAD, or Lightsworn the videos go on and on.)

most people (about 70-75%) believe that the more money you put in, the stronger the cards, the better the deck will be.
well that is true for most builds. but if you wanna cheap, affordable way to get to the top, play a mill.

other than that.... Mill has to be my favorite deck to run.
if you run mill, or at least have knowledge, or wanna learn.... post here.
later


I know its kinda off topic but yami I love ur sig pic

mills are so under represented I love running a dice jar in mine for added carnage(plus I like to keep my ceramics together in one place :P) dice can be a bit of a dwoner but if kept in check with some cards like rainbow life(sided along with whammy cannon) it can be a whole other way to win as for the structure deck idea, it would be nuts MJ2,worms,and if were lucky koalas!

[YaMi_YuGi18]

not just that but throw in some books (moon, eclipse, or the other one. lol. i can never remember the name)
some AOA, and a couple of other good mill cards.
dude..... i just JIZZED IN MY PANTS

ok so i have been thinking to myself "is there a way to incorporate mill, with zombies??"
i mean most of the zombie decks require the cards in the grave yard.
so is there a way where you can mill yourself, get the cards in the graveyard, and swarm like no other??

if so i would really like to know.
(as long as it has nothing to do with lightsworn. lol)

[YaMi_YuGi18]

BUMP 4 discussion

[BigStinkin'Ape]

zombie mill like say using PACMAN and uhh jar? or even cupleing poision mummy with jar , those are about the only ones that would be worth it that or the whole "fushoh rechie" add in (he could be playable with some work)

[Setsuko]

Does NecroMill class as a Mill Deck? Or does it have its own area away from regular milling?

[BigStinkin'Ape]

I usually personally consider the two as seperate entities but since it is a mill it could be classed with the regualr milling decks.

[BigStinkin'Ape]

thread bump!!!

[YaMi_YuGi18]

ok new question.

what kind of card do you think would help make mill more popular??

every top tier deck as that one card that they revolve around. do you ever believe that they might come out with a new and improved needle worm, or some type of other mill main card or combo??

[BigStinkin'Ape]

we need a draw card that also mills(not like hand/card dest.) we need a 3-4 star monster with 12-16 atk and 16-20 def that can draw us cards and mill(coin flip to choose between maybe?) or a searcher(flip effect)+summoner(f/d) for mj2. that would make these deck moire popular and reliable.

[YaMi_YuGi18]

that would make these decks more popular.
only problem is that if konami did that, then alot of builds would put it in there.
BW would have it, LS would have it, crap, even macro would have it.
so theres alot of downsides to having a card like that.

on the other hand, if they made it cost something, maybe, just maybe they wouldnt run it. i mean a monster with that type of power wouldnt just be able to roam around free. if they made it cost you 2 to 3 cards out of your hand, then i dont know who would run it.

(hypothetically speaking people)

[BigStinkin'Ape]

Okay I see your point,well how about to activate its effect you need to discard say 2 cards from your hand?As for the searcher it would have the lower end of those hypothetical stats

[KnightofDestan]

yeah lets wait for stardust overdriv, or the nextr one maybe there will be a huge mill archetype^^

[BigStinkin'Ape]

really is this for sure or just a possibility?

[YaMi_YuGi18]

yeah lets wait for stardust overdriv, or the nextr one MAYBE there will be a huge mill archetype^^

notice the big word in all caps. lol
we'll never quite know for sure until it comes out (keep your fingers crossed ladies. :p)

[BigStinkin'Ape]

lol I missed that, I hope we get that stuff.
Yami: check the gears thread and read my post when ya get a chance(who am I kidding you will ne way :P )

[YaMi_YuGi18]

when dont i read a post that is on "MY" official ancient gears thread?? lol
ya im doing that as we speak.

so anyone got any new mill strategies yet that they would like to share??

[BigStinkin'Ape]

Thread bump up (no new stratiges srry :) )

[YaMi_YuGi18]

its all good.
ok new conversation

ummmm....
oh ya
what support (besides the people) do mill decks need to become more popular??

[KnightofDestan]

all strategies were already told^^
they need a archtype^^

[YaMi_YuGi18]

well thats pretty much what i meant.
sorry i couldnt think of the word. lol

[BigStinkin'Ape]

they need a unifying searcher that SS'd face down.

[YaMi_YuGi18]

well you can ss it facedown with morphing jar #2, so theres that part.

not only that we need more magic and spell cards that effect your opponents deck.
(something besides card destruction, hand destruction)
i know this could be a gamble idea, and i know that most mills rely mainly on their magic and traps, but could cold wave be an addition to mill??

[BigStinkin'Ape]

cold wave could be a possibility but only in a PACMAN build

[YaMi_YuGi18]

whats up with a PACMAN build and just a regular mill build??

[BigStinkin'Ape]

in PACMAN you could still gain advantage while losing ur s/t for a turn. on top of that I think there is a new field card (in stardust overdrive I think,I'll check that later) that shifts all monsters summoned to def and destroys any attacking monsters this coupled with your cold idea could give new lift to Mill.

Edit: it was stardust overdrive, its spider web field and it shifts any attacking card to def pos and cannot change its pos till the controllers next end phase.

[KnightofDestan]

yeah but thats only for stall mill^^

[BigStinkin'Ape]

yeah but thats only for stall mill^^


maybe so but it can help any mill to get set up(use 1-2 in any mill use 2-3 in siall builds and use 3 in jar decks

[YaMi_YuGi18]

hmmmmm... this is interesting.

only question we need to think about is
how is this going to affect the game play once we play "spider-web field"??
one turn without magic and traps for mill could be the deciding phase.

guess we'll never know till it comes out.
(heres a thought... GIANT needle worm: Flip: you win) lol

[BigStinkin'Ape]

rofl I'll main that with giant MJ your opponent discards upto 60 cards from their deck,if thy cannot reduce their lifepoints by 8000

[YaMi_YuGi18]

sounds good.
i think im gonna enter nats with those, then get thrown out.

[BigStinkin'Ape]

have fun ^.^(till they ban you :D) also thoughts on my gear deck?

[YaMi_YuGi18]

u know i was looking at it and i forgot to put something.
(shows what happens when you live a TCG life, and a Team Invasion life..... COFFEE, COFFEE, COFFEE!!!!!

[BigStinkin'Ape]

u know i was looking at it and i forgot to put something.
(shows what happens when you live a TCG life, and a Team Invasion life..... COFFEE, COFFEE, COFFEE!!!!!
pssh thats baby stuff you need to go intravenus with cocaine or something(icing sugar maybe :P)

[YaMi_YuGi18]

well if i wanna live a double life i better get some speed, meth, some crystal (crack-cocaine.... otherwise known as krank)
and hell-a cheap spider man costume. (hopefully all of those drugs will turn me into the flash as well)

but anyways, ... we need more people on this discussion thread, along with the ancient gear discussion thread.

[BigStinkin'Ape]

now that is a good Idea, and ya we do need more ppl.(XD)

[YaMi_YuGi18]

i mean when this thread first started we had me, knight, and you came in somewhere in teh middle.
now its just me and you.

as of the discussion
i did some research on that "spider-web field" card.
and it could help mill, but its still gonna have a problem making top tier due to the constant popularity of the already top tier decks.

[BigStinkin'Ape]

we'd need to make a anti-meta mill(plotting, then evil meancing laugh MUHAHAHA!) seriously though that is what mill will have to do to beat meta

[YaMi_YuGi18]

which means that mill is gonna have to run thunder king, royal oppression, and alot of those cards that negate special summons.
hmmmmm... i like where this is going, but its gonna make mill a lot slower
and it also adds cards that arent important to the mill factor.

maybe i should get a list ready, this could actually go somewhere.

morphing jar #2 x3
Needle worm x3
thunder king x2
sangan
morphing jar
marshmallon
dekoichi x2
rose, warrior of revenge x3
krebons x2

magical mallet x3
card destruction
hand destruction x2
heavy storm
book of moon x3
book of eclipse x2
(im debating on putting cold wave in here or not)
enemy controller x2

solemn x3
bottomless x2
waboku x2
torrential tribute.

wonder how that would work.

[BigStinkin'Ape]

morphing jar #2 x3
Needle worm x3
thunder king x2
sangan(no sangan,stopped by TKO)
morphing jar
marshmallon
dekoichi x2
rose, warrior of revenge x3
krebons x2

magical mallet x3
card destruction
hand destruction x2
heavy storm
book of moon x3
book of eclipse x2
(im debating on putting cold wave in here or not)
enemy controller x2

solemn x3
bottomless x2
waboku x2
torrential tribute.

instead of the one I pointed out why not have in another TKO or kycoo or breaker or even DD crow(stops JD) ore hell even kuriboh/necro gardna

[YaMi_YuGi18]

hey its just a really light outline.
its gonna take some revising and more time to get it right. lol
but i do agree, kycoo wouldnt be to bad, nor would another thunder king.
this is coming along at a slow and constant speed, but it will get there.

[BigStinkin'Ape]

true and for a draft its a very good start

[YaMi_YuGi18]

y thank you. :D

anyways, im thinking about the synchros
pretty much just a basic outline

stardust x3
black rose x3
goyo
DSF x2
and etc.

as for a side deck,
im not really sure.

[BigStinkin'Ape]

am as of now pretty drained in mental capacity(dabate forum on INV me and wo0 are at odd with each others view of gay marriage.) so I'd love to help but not till tomorrow

[YaMi_YuGi18]

its all good
i got in on that debate as well, i had the last word for tonight.... no sure about tomorrow though. lol

but ill await your reply

[BigStinkin'Ape]

I will do that first thing in the morning*yawn* need some sleep (completely drained now)

[YaMi_YuGi18]

i think that a good stall card for mill could be "ally of justice casator"
the effect is good, and with the anti-meta mill that we could be running, it could prove to be a valuable asset.

[BigStinkin'Ape]

castor=good but far to hypped as the be all end all synchro IMO

[YaMi_YuGi18]

true.
everyone is gonna have that damn card. and i literally mean everyone.
they will run it in 3's, then once it takes nats..... they're gonna either limit it to one, or ban it.

[BigStinkin'Ape]

limit at best IMO a 2200 5* who can spin darks is good but not great(still doesn't solve for GB or LS)

oh here is my anti-meta jar deck.thoughts?


monsters:22
3 MJ2
3 TKO
1 jowgen the spiritualist
3 needle worm
2 gemini imps(muhaha airbelluim)
2 keblek
2 gale-the whirlwind
2 Summon monk
2 rose warrior
2 des kangaroo

magic:15
2 burden of the mighty
2 stumbling
1 MST
2 POA
2 BOE
2 BOM
3 magical mallet
1 monster reborn

Traps:5
3 all-out attacks
2 BTH

Extra
(regular synchs)

sideboard
2 dd crow
2 BOT
1 jowgen the spiritualist
3 mirror for oaths
+7

[YaMi_YuGi18]

limit at best IMO a 2200 5* who can spin darks is good but not great(still doesn't solve for GB or LS)

oh here is my anti-meta jar deck.thoughts?


monsters:22
3 MJ2
3 TKO
1 jowgen the spiritualist
3 needle worm
2 gemini imps(muhaha airbelluim)
2 keblek
2 gale-the whirlwind
2 Summon monk
2 rose warrior
2 des kangaroo

magic:15
2 burden of the mighty
2 stumbling
1 MST
2 POA
2 BOE
2 BOM
3 magical mallet
1 monster reborn

Traps:5
3 all-out attacks
2 BTH

Extra
(regular synchs)

sideboard
2 dd crow
2 BOT
1 jowgen the spiritualist
3 mirror for oaths
+7

doesnt look to shabby.
one thing....

- monster reborn
+ shallow grave (ss facedown is way better for mill)
yes your opponent gets to bring a monster back as well, but bottomless should be predetermined and set up.
also you can flip that monster face up and start the milling process with the AOA's.

other than that i give you mad props. :D


(now we just need a play test)

[BigStinkin'Ape]

well thankyou, I am currently re-downloading the sets for yvd(for the 3rd frigging timer :/) but after that is done if you have yvd and want to we can put this through the paces against a deck of your choosing.

also any idea for the sideboard?

[YaMi_YuGi18]

only problem is that i run a MAC
=( sux, i cant get YVD

and for a side...... how about mashed potatoes and gravy??

ok in a mill your going to have plenty of two things,
1: mill power
2: plenty of lifepoints.

i wonder if solemn could run in this.
if so i would go

3 solemns
2 PWWB
3 desert sunlight
(and this is just a maybe)
gravity bind

so far thats 9, ... the other 6 im not so sure about.

[BigStinkin'Ape]

hmm that could work but why not add in a very fun and useful consept to this deck: Dummy golem this little bugger is great when yu need a deversion from your normal tactics to get set up. also u do realize that if you get a windows emulator you can run yvd on a mac.

[YaMi_YuGi18]

dummy golem.....
that would prove to be a very good diversion.
maybe even a scrap-iron scarecrow (can come in handy if you need something to block with)

as for YVD, i do know that i can run it if i have and emulator,
only problem is finding one i can run for free. (no trials)

[BigStinkin'Ape]

hmm I will get back to you on that (my Tech-wiz cuz has a mac that runs windows I'll see how he got it) scrap is nice but ne more than 2 is a bit annoying cuz you can just stop battle phases completly and thats just plain unsporting

[YaMi_YuGi18]

any help with YVD on my mac will be greatly appreciated.

as for scrap iron, how is that unsporting?? isnt that what a milll is in one word??
lol, i mean everything about mill is either stall, or mill out the deck.
but i see what your saying.

[BigStinkin'Ape]

stall, not halt and how the heck are you going to get them to run into ur f/d if you dont let them attack, besides I had a bad expierence with 3 scrap-irn(damn cloudian deck >.>)

[YaMi_YuGi18]

well i was just saying it was a possibility. ^.^

and what if you dont want them to run into your facedowns??
you could run the whole MJ#2, NW, and AOA combo. you dont need your opponent to run into you monsters for that to work.

[BigStinkin'Ape]

true, I suppose 1-2 is a good side option but if you main them its the wabokus that likely gotta take the fall

[YaMi_YuGi18]

indeed.

o ya, i sent you a friends request on yahoo
hope thats alright ^.^

[BigStinkin'Ape]

np but I dont usually use my yahoo for anything out side of business if you want to talk to me on msn then pm me and I'll give you my msn

[BigStinkin'Ape]

limit at best IMO a 2200 5* who can spin darks is good but not great(still doesn't solve for GB or LS)

oh here is my anti-meta jar deck.thoughts?


monsters:22
3 MJ2
3 TKO
1 jowgen the spiritualist
3 needle worm
2 gemini imps(muhaha airbelluim)
2 keblek
2 gale-the whirlwind
2 Summon monk
2 rose warrior
2 des kangaroo

magic:15
2 burden of the mighty
2 stumbling
1 MST
2 POA
2 BOE
2 BOM
3 magical mallet
1 monster reborn

Traps:5
3 all-out attacks
2 BTH

Extra
(regular synchs)

sideboard
2 dd crow
2 BOT
1 jowgen the spiritualist
3 mirror for oaths
+7

I think this could benifit form mask of restrict and maybe2x necroface+macro (EVIL:macro mill :cool:)

[R_Garris]

Has neone mentioned the gift of greed?

[BigStinkin'Ape]

its good but it doesn't go well with most themes . if you have a build where it works we would like to see it.

[R_Garris]

Ok, this is not finished, nor has it been tested ive just been looking around and working on it the past two days. Sorry i didnt take the time to seperate monsters spells and traps its just how i have it written down.

1 Morphing Jar
3 Needle bug
3 Hiro's shadow scout
3 Gift of Greed
3 the bistro butcher
1 Card of Destruction
2 book of moon
3 The shallow grave
1 monster reborn
3 desert sunlight
3 Cliff the trap remover
2 book of taiyou
2 book of eclipse
1 swords of revealing light
3 solemn judgement
3 hand destruction
3 upstart goblin

ok so thats what i have put in it now but like i said its not final nor has it been tested, other cards that i have been looking at are goblin zombie, don zatoog, and a sangan also instead of only having two of each book i could take out the 3 cliff the trap removers and put in one more of each book, idk yet any advice would help and any good mill cards that i miss would be appreciated too, Thanks!

[BigStinkin'Ape]

that is a nice start, I will look into it to see if its worth running a set-up like that

[R_Garris]

yeah i dont have all the cards yet, almost though i think it should work fairly well its alot of flipping haha that y i think imma cut out the cliff to put in one more of each book.

[YaMi_YuGi18]

one more of each book would definitely be a +
that way you have a better chance of getting your monsters facedown.
i would also consider running MJ#2. very good mill card.

[BigStinkin'Ape]

one more of each book would definitely be a +
that way you have a better chance of getting your monsters facedown.
i would also consider running MJ#2. very good mill card.


I think these suggestions might do nicely and also how well is bestru butcher playing I just dont like offense in a defense build unless its coupled with a good strategy

[R_Garris]

Ok so I will take out the three cliff the trappers to put in one more of each book, then i could possibly take out the three bistro butchers to put in 3 Morphing jar #2, but if possible is there a better card for some reason i just dont like the jar #2

[YaMi_YuGi18]

for mill, no there is not better card.
MJ#2 allows you to take all of the cards on yours/opponents side of the field and add them back to their deck. then you both special summon the same number of monsters in facedown position.

heres where the mill kicks in. any other cards that are picked up, and are not LV4 or lower are automatically sent to the grave yard (LV 5+ monsters, Magics, Traps)

it really helps if your opponent is running cards like Judgment dragon, or DAD, it gets rid of synchros that were on the field (the go back to the extra deck instead of the main deck)
so MJ#2 is your best option out there.

[BigStinkin'Ape]

for mill, no there is not better card.
MJ#2 allows you to take all of the cards on yours/opponents side of the field and add them back to their deck. then you both special summon the same number of monsters in facedown position.

heres where the mill kicks in. any other cards that are picked up, and are not LV4 or lower are automatically sent to the grave yard (LV 5+ monsters, Magics, Traps)

it really helps if your opponent is running cards like Judgment dragon, or DAD, it gets rid of synchros that were on the field (the go back to the extra deck instead of the main deck)
so MJ#2 is your best option out there.

this is true and coupling MJ#2 with all out attacks makes the main combo of jar decks all thast better because AOA foreces a loop to occur where you could very well deck your opponent out.

[YaMi_YuGi18]

Mj#2, AOA FTW!!!
Bump

[Dragons_Quest]

Froggy Mill FTW... You can consistantly mill your opponent on average turn 2-3 with this build. Game two it sides into burn which will catch them off guard. Here's Froggy Mill. All you need bone tower, subsitoad, zombie world plus one other monster if you have exodius in hand that pretty much game. However I pretty much drew exdious no later then turn 3.

Monster-22
3 Exodius
3 Soul Absorbing Bone Tower
3 Dupe Frog
3 Substitoad
2 Unifrog
2 Submarine Frog
2 Flip Flop Frog
2 Goblin Zombie
2 Zombie Master

Magic-13
3 One For one
3 Zombie World
2 Nightmare Steel Cage
1 Pot oF Avarice
1 Swords oF Revealing Light
1 Terraforming
1 Monster Reborn
1 Level Limite Area b

Traps-6
3 Threating Roar
2 Limit Reverse
1 Gravity Bind

[BigStinkin'Ape]

interesting consept I will try that and glad to see another take on the mill idea.

[KnightofDestan]

Froggy Mill FTW... You can consistantly mill your opponent on average turn 2-3 with this build. Game two it sides into burn which will catch them off guard. Here's Froggy Mill. All you need bone tower, subsitoad, zombie world plus one other monster if you have exodius in hand that pretty much game. However I pretty much drew exdious no later then turn 3.

Monster-22
3 Exodius
3 Soul Absorbing Bone Tower
3 Dupe Frog
3 Substitoad
2 Unifrog
2 Submarine Frog
2 Flip Flop Frog
2 Goblin Zombie
2 Zombie Master

Magic-13
3 One For one
3 Zombie World
2 Nightmare Steel Cage
1 Pot oF Avarice
1 Swords oF Revealing Light
1 Terraforming
1 Monster Reborn
1 Level Limite Area b

Traps-6
3 Threating Roar
2 Limit Reverse
1 Gravity Bind

could you explain a bit more?
duno if its working ^^


and I can't belive it!
TGO got another mill card^^

Shield Worm「シールド・ワーム」
EARTH/Insect - Effect/4/800/2000
When this card is successfully Normal Summoned, Flip Summoned or Special Summoned, it is changed to Defense Position. Also, send a number of cards from the top of your opponent's deck to the Graveyard equal to the number of face-up Insect-Type monster you control.
http://shriek.twoday.net/

hope tcg gets it^^

[BigStinkin'Ape]

I hope shield comes are way too KoD. That gives me so many ideas....

[BigStinkin'Ape]

Thoughts on card guard being a viable card in a mill deck?
Tested random builds using proxies he is very good in all but necro mill.But that is my take

[jakelukis45]

oo3 Needle Worm
oo2 Morphing Jar #2
oo1 Morphing Jar
oo1 Sangan
oo1 Night Assailant

8

oo3 Book of Moon
oo3 Book of Eclipse
oo3 Book of Taiyou
oo3 Upstart Goblin
oo3 Double Summon
oo3 Dark World Dealings
oo2 The Shallow Grave
oo2 Hand Destruction
oo2 Magical Mallet

24

oo3 Waboku
oo3 Threatening Roar
oo2 Desert Sunlight

8

[BigStinkin'Ape]

oo3 Needle Worm
oo2 Morphing Jar #2
oo1 Morphing Jar
oo1 Sangan
oo1 Night Assailant

8

oo3 Book of Moon
oo3 Book of Eclipse
oo3 Book of Taiyou
oo3 Upstart Goblin
oo3 Double Summon
oo3 Dark World Dealings
oo2 The Shallow Grave
oo2 Hand Destruction
oo2 Magical Mallet

24

oo3 Waboku
oo3 Threatening Roar
oo2 Desert Sunlight

8

Mind explaining this?

[jakelukis45]

Empty Jar.

Keep re-using Morphing Jar 2's and Needle Worm's effect with Desert Sunlight, the Book's and other's.

[BigStinkin'Ape]

Can you explain why you used certain cards?

[jakelukis45]

What cards.

[BigStinkin'Ape]

Desert sunlight for starters(I just dislike that card) and why is there a absence of more cards like disturbance strategy and the like.Good deck though.

[jakelukis45]

Desert Sunlight > Book of Moon is a good combo on my opponent's turn before the Battle Phase. It FLIPS the monsters thus giving the effects. Disturbance Strategy doesn't really mill.

[BigStinkin'Ape]

Desert Sunlight > Book of Moon is a good combo on my opponent's turn before the Battle Phase. It FLIPS the monsters thus giving the effects. Disturbance Strategy doesn't really mill.
Disturbance mills by making them discard hand then hit them with MJ2 or adding in Null and Void, can create basically as many as 4 card destructions then MJ2.They mill indirectly.

Also off topic: to all who read through this deck thread.the Masterminds are beginning to become more focused on the Deck sections.If you want help on a deck please,unless you think you can wait for an answer, post any decks in the deck section if you are looking for help.The MM's will be concentrating heavier on there as will I.You can still post decks in the deck discussions for help but if you want a quick reply ,post it in deck creation first ,then hyperlink it to the discussion your asking for help in.

[MATRIX4]

2-Necroface
3-lava Golem
3-Needle worm
3-Morphing Jar #2
3-Destiny Hero Defender
1-Morphing Jar
2-Kuraz The Light Monarch

3-Book of Eclipse
3-Book of Moon
3-Dimensional Fissure
2-Gold Sarcohpagus
1-Card of Destruction
1-Level Limit Area B
3-Messenger of Peace
1-Nightmare Steelcage
1-Sword's of Revealing Light

3-Threatening Roar
2-Thunder of Ruler
3-Waboku
1-Gravity Bind

SIDE:
3-Book of Taiyou
3-The Shallow Grave
2-Hiro The Shadow Scout
2-Allure of Darkness
1-Marshmallon
1-Spirit Reaper
3-Stealth Bird

The deck is setup for Lightsworn. But can be sided for graveyard revival or a little more Burn. The Golems are there for Synchro removal plus some Burn. I do pretty well online since my opponent can't side deck on me. Glads are my toughest matchup but I win most of the time against them. My Burn deck has been doing well at my locals. But I'm going to give it a rest and try my Mill deck. What do you guys think?

[BigStinkin'Ape]

2-Necroface
3-lava Golem
3-Needle worm
3-Morphing Jar #2
3-Destiny Hero Defender(Eww why not turn this into big shield guardna since them getting a +1 is a serious turn off)
1-Morphing Jar
2-Kuraz The Light Monarch(odd choice, why is this in aside from draw power?)

3-Book of Eclipse
3-Book of Moon
3-Dimensional Fissure
2-Gold Sarcohpagus
1-Card of Destruction
1-Level Limit Area B
3-Messenger of Peace
1-Nightmare Steelcage(why only one of this???)
1-Sword's of Revealing Light

3-Threatening Roar
2-Thunder of Ruler(is there something better than this, scrap iron perhaps??)
3-Waboku
1-Gravity Bind

SIDE:
3-Book of Taiyou
3-The Shallow Grave
2-Hiro The Shadow Scout
2-Allure of Darkness
1-Marshmallon
1-Spirit Reaper
3-Stealth Bird

The deck is setup for Lightsworn. But can be sided for graveyard revival or a little more Burn. The Golems are there for Synchro removal plus some Burn. I do pretty well online since my opponent can't side deck on me. Glads are my toughest matchup but I win most of the time against them. My Burn deck has been doing well at my locals. But I'm going to give it a rest and try my Mill deck. What do you guys think?
Responses are in italics after a bold card name.

[MATRIX4]

Defender mills your opponent and stays in defense position unlike Gardna. Kuraz destroys 2 opponent cards and makes them draw 2. Scrap-iron only negates 1 attack while Thunder of Ruler negates for the entire turn. I need 1 more stall card and Steelcage was it. I want my opponent to mill through their deck as quickly as possible whether they draw or mill. I rarely ever attack unless my opponents field is entirely clear. I'm thinking of putting in another Kuraz because he goes through 4 of my opponents cards when he is summoned.

I'll discuss side decking and strategies used against opposing deck types in the next day or so when I have a chance.

Thanks for your comments.

[Lightswarm]

Anyone aware of the new mill card?
Update: Beat X-sabers with empty jar, pwned:p

[sword of souls]

who uses hand destruction x3 in their deck?

[one-with-the-bugs]

I do.

And what new mill card? That worm thing?

[Lightswarm]

Lol ya that worm thing. xD.
Seems decent enough for empty jar decks.

[sword of souls]

i will use them when i get them

[Lightswarm]

Well two of them worms are enough, 3 might be overkill.
Anyone has the actual name?

[sword of souls]

i think its called warm worm??

[Lightswarm]

hmm. well thanks, might look that up soon and post back.

[sword of souls]

its good but three could be to many
i do think needle worm is better
how about you

[Lightswarm]

Meh, I guees so, just because of Needle worm's flip effect. Thanks to that you can abuse it with the books. I personally love Morphing Jar combos in Empty Jar.:p

[sword of souls]

they are awesome
and its fun to abuse needle worms effect
who runs serial spells

[BigStinkin'Ape]

I have tried serial spell and it was not as good as it looks.Also warm wurm will be more effictive then needle mainly due to needles size.

[Lightswarm]

It looks good when chained to Card Destruction for the finishing mill.
Yes, Warm Wurm will be better lol.

[Lightswarm]

What's there to tech and side against other decks. I faced an Empty Jar with my DivaDAD and D-hero Plasma raped. Lmao, so I was wondering what Empty Jar can side into for that situation?

[Lightswarm]

No love for the Mill? Still Looking for the techs. It's a problem with Skill Drain. Just kills the deck, need some constructive responses.

[BigStinkin'Ape]

Perhaps try fairy wind, or twister even(and please quite "beating a dead horse" if you get my meaning.)

[Lightswarm]

Alright I'll try that out.
BSA: I do get what you mean. I just want a suggestion since Mill is one of my favorite type of decks. :D

[BigStinkin'Ape]

Alright I'll try that out.
BSA: I do get what you mean. I just want a suggestion since Mill is one of my favorite type of decks. :D
I can see that, and while I appreciate seeing new life trying to grow in something dead, this particular topic need more "nurishment" to sustain any further growth.Hopefully the new wurm cards will inspire someone to revive this from the dead.Until then, if you need more help or have a topic for this,try and gather more than one question so that a discussion has more of a start to build off of(as your questions were good just nothing to cause more than a 1 or 2 sentence answer to form.).Feel free to pm me for more help with mill otherwise,as this was one topic I was intending to take on stuarting before it truly died.

[Lightswarm]

I can now see your true intentions of leaving this dead. I understand, well yes, I too do hope that the new Wurms will enchance the capabilites of the Mill-based decks.
I will surely come to you BSA if I do need any assistance regarding any Mill techs or anything alike. It might not be too late as the Wurm's release will or will not innovate some players into posting on this thread, the general idea is that there is a point into posting here, and also a chance of a thread 'Reborn' lmao. Well see you around then, farewell dead thread xD.

[phantom2250]

http://forum.tcgplayer.com/showthread.php?p=2166680