Jenara, Asura of War [Archive] - TCGplayer.com Forums

Rakavolver

04-13-2009, 04:58 AM

It's a Legend, so I'd never run more than one. I never ever care about the artwork. If artwork mattered, people would never have run Spiritmonger or Stasis.

As far as the card itself goes:

- 3-toughness for 3 IS pretty uninspiring, but a 3/3 flyer for 3 should be considered carefully before being rejected
- the counters ARE permanent, and thus give usage for uneeded late game mana
- the fact that I mentioned "late-game" means Control. If you can protect it ...
- T'will be a house in Limited
- May NOT be played, as DamageReport said, due to better stuff in its casting cost slot ... man oh man does Wizards like loading up the options at Casting Cost = 3.

Shinning_Nova

04-13-2009, 05:56 AM

This card is awesome with steel of the godhead :D

mtglordtom24

04-13-2009, 07:18 AM

I have to say I'm not a fan of this lady, she is not as good as say, Rhox Warmonk, although she can just get out of control. There's just nowhere to put her right now and Raka, if you say there's a Bant deck out there, I'll have to remind you that, no, there isn't.

Rakavolver

04-13-2009, 07:24 AM

There may be a decent Bant Control after Reborn is known, never discount a deck that can run 4 Cryptic Commands. Who can tell? Not worried about it, but you can't tell me a deck with U and W can't find room for one of these.

By the way, click on my sig and read that Woody Harrelson thing. Has the man completely lost his mind or had he smoked more hemp than usual? Not a rhetorical question.

mackatee

04-13-2009, 07:34 AM

@DamageReport

Not that it matters... but are we looking at the same artwork?! I'm a tourny player at heart, so I usually don't care about art, but I took a look at the larger image they posted in the article with the preview and it looks AWESOME. Her armor and sword have an IMMENSE amount of detail and (for the Art History buffs) has a very Baroque style quality to it.

As far as playabilty goes... Raka nailed it! (thanks for stealing the thunder!) :)

PlowUnder

04-13-2009, 07:44 AM

sorry Raka looks like she's mythic

GTMIDN09

04-13-2009, 08:25 AM

She looks a heckuva bit better (to me) than you guys seem to be indicating. I think she'll be an automatic 2-3 of in every Bant aggro deck. It's not so much that she's better than Captain Pancakes (she's not), it's that Bant has such an awful lack of truly threatening 2 and four drops. I playtest against a friend's Bant aggro deck frequently and I have NEVER quivered at a Steward of Valeron (though Jhessian infiltrators beg for removal) and NEVER been in a huge rush to kill Stoic Angel. This lady... she's kind of like a slow Figure of Destiny. Bant won't have to play out their whole hand. Battlegrace Angel + Jenara are going to need an answer all by themselves, keeping Bant from overcommitting. I think it'll be a good card for the deck, and I anticipate my friend taking out 1 Infiltrator and 1 Stoic to make room for her.

Falkor

04-13-2009, 08:31 AM

I see no reason why Bant wouldn't run this card as a 4of like Dark Bant runs 4x Doran, the Siege Tower.

Then again, that's block, where a turn 2 Jenara is not as assured as Standard.

Until Doran rotates, I am not sure how many 3cc creatures Dark Bant wants to run. On the other hand, this card is perfect for my Bant Fish deck, and I would not hesitate to run 3-4 copies in the build, and make sure to leave plenty of room for counters.

DraconisMarch

04-13-2009, 08:54 AM

Her sword and shield are unproportionally huge. She looks like she can barely move in her armor. And "she" looks like a dude. Sadly, I'm anal about the artwork of cards I use; which means people like Aleski Briclot, John Avon (mostly), and Rob Alexander are at the top of my list. Moral of the story: If the art sucks, I'll be extremely turned off to using it. If I DO end up using it just because of how good it is, I won't like it whenever it shows it's face. :D

GoblinToken

04-13-2009, 11:35 AM

Yes Bant is crowded at the 3CC slot, but with enough Birds equivalents and the fact that we have to spend some turn 1s and 2s playing mana fixers since the cards require such specific mana nowadays I don't mind skimping at 1 and 2CC and playing 11 - 15 3CC cards. Plus if you're light at the 5CC slot this card can act as a virtual 5CC angel.

Granted I don't get as excited over lifelink as other people but I don't think Pancakes is better than this new card. Pancakes can never attack into a 4/4, this card just needs you to spend a few more mana on her as you swing in.

I love cards that have ways you can spend access mana built in. It allows you to not feel like you're losing ground if you want to hold onto that card that you just drew rather than playing it right away.

Destroyer51

04-13-2009, 12:13 PM

i dunno about this girl. in limited, she is bomby, so i will play her there.
but in constructed...
play her on t3. t4 you double pump her and she gets terrored/pathed/terminated. seems like a pretty big tempo loss, considering all the mana you put into it.
as a 3/3 flyer she's pretty good though. but by the time you've paid 5 it's like serra angel +haste -vigilance, or better yet battlegrace -lifelink/exalted. although she is good if your slow rolling, or maybe as a finisher in a control deck... but even then broodmate is 8 power for 6 mana, and will eat 2 spot removal spells... it would take 13 mana (total) to make her 8 power.
maybe she'll be good for block where there's no doran/kitchen finks/cavaliers. maybe standard as a one-of.

Monochrome_Lotus

04-13-2009, 12:40 PM

I don't think this is good for Bant.. she doesn't win races like War Monk does, and let's face it, you can't counter everything, so they'll just wait 'til you're tapped out to Path her and make all that mana you dumped into her inconsequential. I do think that she might find a home in 5CC, though. Comes down earlier than Broodmate (or later, with more mana open to counterspell/pump) and goes oh-so-nice with Wall of Reverence (especially after Plumeveil rotates).

Regarding the artwork: I'm not trying to sound lecherous here, but has anyone noticed they're putting more clothes on their angels lately? It seems to me they've been trying a lot lately to make the game look less like a Conan the Barbarian book jacket, which is fine by me [insert defense here to A) vainly try to protect my machismo and B) not get flamed]; perhaps they're trying to be more kid (or rather, parents of kids) friendly now?

@Raka: OMG, that story is hilarious! And now that you mention it, Frasier and Norm always did look like zombies. :D Did you click on the link to "Zombies are the new Vampires"?

namegoeshere

04-13-2009, 02:03 PM

She's great for the late game, while also being very good early game. Yes you could throw a lot of mana away, but without her what would you do with that mana?

Monochrome_Lotus

04-13-2009, 02:16 PM

She's great for the late game, while also being very good early game. Yes you could throw a lot of mana away, but without her what would you do with that mana?

I don't think it's a question of wasting mana, I think it's about Threat Allocation. You could make her a Billiondy/Billiondy creature and still lose the game because they have a Bitterblossom in play. I'm not trying to say she's unplayable dreck.. but if your opponent can't stop a single threat that you have to dump mana into to win the game (in an efficient manner) then you could win with practically anything else. Look at Dark Bant.. it has the ability to attack on the third turn with a 14 point life swing, yet I don't see it posting unbelievably good matches.. and with Dark Bant, you don't have to spend any more mana than casting your guyz.
For example, take the following scenario:
You have this in play and a Mulldrifter in your hand and 6 mana. Do you tap out and attack for an extra three, or would you be more likely to cast the Mulldrifter (keeping a plains open for Path to Exile) and diversify your threat base a little?

Shinning_Nova

04-13-2009, 03:09 PM

DraconisMarch

04-13-2009, 07:42 PM

Draconismarc, me and you have a lot in common. I was thinking the same thing about her earlier!! Why mustthe good cards have crap art, and the bad cards have good art? nobody knows!!

I like Jenara. I mean shes Ok, but the best thing about her is her Casting Cost. a 3 for a 3/3 with flying is decent. a good bomb that hits early. I like it.

Glad to see we agree on that point. :cool: But it's not always that the bad cards have good art. Good cards do too. (Examples: Ravnica block shock lands, Wrath of God, Doran, Rafiq, Knight of the Reliquary... I could go on forever.)

DamageReport

04-13-2009, 10:34 PM

Rakavolver: Wtf?! I know Woody Harrelson is just insane but Paparazzo are the lowest lifeform on Earth (next to terrorist that is). I would have done the same (no chance I'm going to be popular... I'm not stupid) but I would have thought of some other good reason like: "I thought he was holding a gun so I needed to use my kung-fu or something."

There is a Bant deck out there. It's every Timmy's dream. And we all know that Bant is the plane of dreams.

Jenara like I said in my last post is a great card but uninspired, unimaginative. She is playable is some deck but the fact is, she exist in a standard choke full of awesome 3-drops.

About the art, I totally agree w/ DraconisMarch. She looks very stiff. The coloring is dull. And there is no sense of feminity (spell check please) unlike some other M:tG Angel card arts. Her armor is stupidly unproportioned. Somebody may say, "Duh, she lives in Bant. The plane of stupidly unproportioned ritualistic battle armors." Yeah, tell that to Rafiq, Ranger of Eos, Knight Captain of Eos, Paragon of the Amesha, etc. And yeah, art (illustration) is one of the reasons I play (played) M:tG. I would have never played it if all it's card illustrations was as shoddy as Stasis. But, it's just me.

DraconisMarch

04-14-2009, 03:49 AM

Rakavolver: Wtf?! I know Woody Harrelson is just insane but Paparazzo are the lowest lifeform on Earth (next to terrorist that is). I would have done the same (no chance I'm going to be popular... I'm not stupid) but I would have thought of some other good reason like: "I thought he was holding a gun so I needed to use my kung-fu or something."

There is a Bant deck out there. It's every Timmy's dream. And we all know that Bant is the plane of dreams.

Jenara like I said in my last post is a great card but uninsired, unimaginative. She is playable is some deck but the fact is, she exist in a standard choke full of awesome 3-drops.

About the art, I totally agree w/ DraconisMarch. She looks very stiff. The coloring is dull. And there is no sense of feminity (spell check please) unlike some other M:tG Angel card arts. Her armor is stupidly unproportioned. Somebody may say, "Duh, she lives in Bant. The plane of stupidly unproportioned ritualistic battle armors." Yeah, tell that to Rafiq, Rangers of Eos, Knight Captain of Eos, Paragon of the Amesha, etc. And yeah, art (illustration) is one of the reasons I play (played) M:tG. I would have never played it if all it's card illustrations was as shoddy as Stasis. But, it's just me.

I think you mean "chock" full of awesome 3-drops. ;)

Yeah, the dull color is also something I don't like. I forgot to mention that.

I don't really like to criticize artwork a WHOLE lot (especially since I could never do anywhere close to as good), but when you know that some of these artists could definately do better (John Avon and Thornling *cough*) then it makes you wonder: What were they thinking when they sucked it up? :confused:

Shinning_Nova

04-14-2009, 08:41 AM

thornling looks like some giant beaver-mule covered in last nights green bean casaroll. I was expecting something alot more... dangerous looking than a vegtable covered beaver! I agree, artwork makes me love and hate cards, even though I will still play them if theyre good.

Falkor

04-14-2009, 09:19 AM

I think if you look at a card like Jenara, you are going to draw some inevitable comparisons to other cards where you either do or don't have to make a further investment to pump it up.

In my mind, if you are playing this card, you are playing counters to protect her or the other 3cc card you dropped on turn 2 on turn 3. There is ZERO incentive to pump her twice on turn 3 if you have a 2cc counter in hand. ZERO.

That said, Doran and Rhox War Monk are both bigger, initially. 4/4 is very relevant in this format, since it will trade with Mistbind Clique and Plumeveil. In my opinion, this is the 3rd 3cc aggro creature in Dark Bant, and the 2nd 3cc aggro creature in Bant Aggro. As such, it will see play.

Now, I have to test whether Knight of the Reliquary is better, or should I stick with Jenara. Without any new Standard lands, I am pretty sure I know the answer to that question already.

Or, does Woolly Thoctar deserve a place with Ancient Ziggurat/Dark Bant builds over Jenara?

These are all questions that must be answered to determine her playability.

I still like her though.

namegoeshere

04-14-2009, 11:17 AM

It's turn 4, you are dark bant, your opponent has just wrath-ed your board. You have 3 lands in hand, because you already have 4 land in play and have no need for more.
If you topdeck doran you it will attack in a turn for 5. If you topdeck this and start pumping, it will attack in a turn for 5, then 7 etc.
As dark bant once you have spent your load, you draw a lot of dross, bop's nameless inversion (not so super late game), land you cant do anything with etc.

It is an awesome card in the late game, it grows, it pumps. It is pretty hot early too.

SGTslappy

04-14-2009, 12:47 PM

This card is awsome, but I don't see it going over $7. This is probably gonna be around Knight of the Reliquary's price. Don't know how many I should put in my deck. Does 2 of these sound good over 2 stoic angel or 2 rafiq? 2 rafiq and 2 of these and 2 stoic angel, or 4 rafiq and 2 of these, which sounds better in an aggro BANT deck?

Theobill

04-14-2009, 02:00 PM

I don't like the way people are bashing the pump ability. The usual argument seems to be that you pump it with all your mana and they kill it. If you think they're going to kill it, then don't pump it. It gives you another choice, and more choice should theoretically always increase your chance of winning.

The usual situation will be; play a creature or pump Jenara, assuming you play well, this should always give you an advantage over the choice of either playing a creature or doing nothing. Better yet, as the Bant decks generally run counterspells, you can hold back counterspell mana while in a dominant position, if you don't need to counterspell anything you get to pump Jenara. There's no tempo loss here from pumping, because you probably won't have anything else to do with 'spare' mana. If they do kill it, there is very little tempo loss.

I don't see these arguments for figure, I don't see why Jenara should be any different.

DraconisMarch

04-14-2009, 04:15 PM

I think the reason she won't see play is the same reason why Thornling doesn't either. Thornling takes too much mana to be worth ANYTHING. Jenara can eat Bitterblossom tokens all she wants, but all that pumping won't do squat.

xiansantos

04-14-2009, 08:10 PM

namegoeshere

04-15-2009, 12:24 AM

There are no tramplers below 5 mana, the fact this can get chump blocked doesn't dismiss it. Simply mix with fallout etc

Monochrome_Lotus

04-15-2009, 01:36 AM

She greatly improves your late game potential. In the same way that Figure is a great top deck late game, Jenara is a mid-game 5/5 or a late game x/x with NO LIMITs unlike figure who tops out at 8/8.

My point was that Figure doesn't NEED to go higher than an 8/8, and this would never NEED to go higher than, say, a 6/6.. if they ain't dead by then, you're doing it wrong. So why not play a Rhox War Monk (with no need for worrying if you draw a redundant copy) and equip a Loxodon Warhammer to said Monk (with fewer worries about disruption) and win with a 6/4 trample double-lifelinked for LESS mana? The root problem of this creature is that she has a very powerful ability stapled to an efficient body.. but by doing this, they've taken away everything that makes a card able to win games outside of a vacuum. I mean, in this environment we have a third turn 14 point life chunk with Dark Bant, a third turn 20 point life swing with regular Bant (there's War Monk again), and the possibility of a first turn 6/4 creature.. all of these aren't considered top-tier because of how easy it is to disrupt your opponent/chump block now.. why would this mana-consumptive Legend be any different?

Theobill

04-15-2009, 02:01 AM

disrupt your opponent/chump block now.. why would this mana-consumptive Legend be any different?

Well, flying makes it a bit more difficult to chump block, except against bitterblossom. Also it's not that Jenara is particularly different, it's more that it adds to an archtype because it's one more efficient creature to remove/chump.

Also any arguments that resolve around being too mana consumptive are a bit flawed. You choose how much to pump it. If you don't want to pump it, you don't have to and it doesn't cost any more mana than the original 3.

Why are people complaining about a pump ability?

The root problem of this creature is that she has a very powerful ability stapled to an efficient body.

Yeh, efficient creatures with powerful abilities have always been awful... Most tournament staples have been efficient creatures with powerful abilities, look at wild mongrel, tog, bob, clique, sower (ok not so efficient bodywise), sculler, ranger, mage.

Monochrome_Lotus

04-15-2009, 03:42 AM

Yeh, efficient creatures with powerful abilities have always been awful... Most tournament staples have been efficient creatures with powerful abilities, look at wild mongrel, tog, bob, clique, sower (ok not so efficient bodywise), sculler, ranger, mage.

Right. Each one of these creatures you've named is powerful because it has an ability that affects the game in ways other than a bigger body on a critter. Can you still win the game because of Bob even if he has a Pacifism on him? Yes, most assuredly. With this, not so much. Thank you for proving my point. :D

I am complaining about a pump ability because it's silly and redundant and it's no good. You [I]are paying for the pump ability no matter if you use it or not, and I don't like the idea of paying more for something I have no intention of using. Still, I'm probably overly upset by this card because I think it's just retarded card design.. sorry if I'm a little too against it.

DraconisMarch

04-15-2009, 03:51 AM

Why do people react to the pump ability like it's a drawback? I don't see anyone complaining about Figure of Destiny.

My only complaint aside is that the art sucks. It looks like a she-male.
That aside, I think the card itself is solid.

She fits perfectly into the aggro-control framework of Bant decks.

Think of it as a means to sink your mana if you held back mana for a Negate. If your 2 lands were untapped with nothing to spend it on, then that would be a tempo loss.

Jenara utilizes that tempo loss by giving you something to sink your mana into during your opponent's end step so that the 2 mana you held back would not have been "wasted".

You can freely play 8 mana dorks in your deck and have something to sink all that acceleration into.

She greatly improves your late game potential. In the same way that Figure is a great top deck late game, Jenara is a mid-game 5/5 or a late game x/x with NO LIMITs unlike figure who tops out at 8/8.

The reason why the Figure's pump ability is so much better is because you can land him on turn 1 with no fear of him getting countered (maybe bastered by a Fanatic, but that's about it). The difference is that if you play Jenara, you just wasted a 3-drop that could've been used for something else (as Monochrome stated, War Monk). She's also easier to counter.

Also, I completely agree with what Monochrome said about the fact that if she ever got bigger than 6/6, you're doing something wrong.

Theobill

04-15-2009, 04:43 AM

I see it as a few simple facts:

A 3/3 flyer for 3 is good. This is extremely efficient and flying is relevant evasion against any deck but faeries.

There is a pump ability that you can use. This makes it a lot harder to block profitably, they can't use a clique to take this out (and it gives you something to do in response to a clique, which will probably come up once or twice).

I think comparisons to figure are unfair, it's like comparing every 2 drop to tarmogoyf.

The reason why the Figure's pump ability is so much better is because you can land him on turn 1 with no fear of him getting counteredTo be fair, bant can land this turn 2 on the play without a chance to get countered, but it's a bit less likely.

This card is an efficient creature that can wreck an enemy that doesn't have removal in hand. The real question is, is that good enough to make the cut in a deck? I think it is personally and I think this will see a decent amount of play during its time in standard.

On a side note, this thing seems fantastic in block, where the only removal that's likely to blow you out is path and in a slow format, creatures with pump abilities tend to be pretty good.

David88

04-15-2009, 07:27 AM

If you ever make this 9/9 to attack into two dragons you're doing something right. (edit: and so much fun)
Figure of destiny is good because it's a one drop that's flexible, good late game! and a good top deck. Tarmogoyf is a two drop that's often the biggest creature around even when fighting 4-5 drops. This is a three-colour three-drop with some characteristics of Figure and tarmogoyf. Not having a cheap flexible cost is quite a drawback but not every card can compare to figure or tarmogoyf. to reiterate if a cheap card is good to play on curve and a good top-deck it's probably good.

Dyne

04-15-2009, 07:46 AM

Right. Each one of these creatures you've named is powerful because it has an ability that affects the game in ways other than a bigger body on a critter. Can you still win the game because of Bob even if he has a Pacifism on him? Yes, most assuredly. With this, not so much. Thank you for proving my point. :D

I am complaining about a pump ability because it's silly and redundant and it's no good. You [I]are paying for the pump ability no matter if you use it or not, and I don't like the idea of paying more for something I have no intention of using. Still, I'm probably overly upset by this card because I think it's just retarded card design.. sorry if I'm a little too against it.

I'm with Lotus on this one.

Basically, you have a 3/3 Flier for 3, which is pretty decent.

However, when you go down the line, you have a 4/4 Flier for 1GWWU, that does not have Vigilance.

Want to know why I use Vigilanceas my example. Who here plays Serra Angel? Anyone? Same casting cost effectively. Same P/T. More restrictive mana cost. 1 less ability.

Why would I play this card? It's also a Legend.

I don't think it will see any play, tbh.

justactcasual

04-15-2009, 08:13 AM

Dyne

04-15-2009, 08:31 AM

Figure isn't that good.

Basically, you have a 1/1 for 1, which is pretty decent.

However, when you go down the line, you have a 4/4 for WWWWW, that does not have Vigilance or Flying.

Want to know why I use Vigilance and Flying as my examples. Who here plays Serra Angel? Anyone? Same casting cost effectively. Same P/T. More restrictive mana cost. 2 less abilities.

Why would I play this card?

I don't think it will see any play, tbh.

You may find it hard to believe, but the reason Figure sees so much play is because of his synergy with ALL kithkin cards, Ranger of Eos and with Revilark.

So your snooty comments are moot at best.

GoblinToken

04-15-2009, 09:16 AM

She's just too good for your curve to dismiss. On turn 3 you might rather play Pancakes or Wilt Leaf Cavaliers (unless they're packing Plumeveils), but late game there's almost no better draw than Jenara. An awesome late-game draw that is playable early game makes for a great card.

vger

04-15-2009, 10:00 AM

i really can't understand the comparison of Jenara with FOD. It's not a very good comparison seriously. FOD is great in a way that it skips counterspells on turn 1, has synergy with other cards, good early and late game draw blah blah. But, it's only good in play when you start investing mana in it. Jenara, on the other hand, while not as useful as FOD, is not a bad creature itself. It's stats is great for a 3cc creature and has evasion and by that, it's already good enough without the pump, unlike FOD.

Yet, like many others have mentioned, there have been too much 3cc creatures up for bant related decks and it's also a legend, thus probably restricting it from seeing constructed anytime soon.

Monochrome_Lotus

04-15-2009, 12:36 PM

For the record, I too dislike comparing it to Figure: FoD is the epitome of an "easy to cast, easy to win with" guy, and this fits into a very specific 3 colors (with more of 1 color more prominent?!). But it's also that, whether I'm running aggro or control, I love when somebody plays a first turn Figure; it means that I take 2-6 damage, they spent a boatload of mana, and then I kill it and probably win with egregious tempo advantage. And that's what I see happening too often with this guy.. "I'll take 5.. I'll take 7.. now I win. Thank you!" That's a lot of why I see this as bad: if you have leftover mana, you'll be tempted to dump it into this girl, and that's when your opponent will take advantage of the situation and wreck your board with a single card. You have to think of it in terms of mana production/card advantage; if you put 3 counters on her, you could have cast a Rafiq and a Bird of Paradise and a Noble Hierarch with that mana, so when they kill this, they haven't killed just it, they have, in essence, killed it and a Rafiq and a Bird of Paradise and a Noble Hierarch. Dark Temper suddenly equals WoG? Seems real bad.
Hope that makes sense.

GoblinToken

04-15-2009, 12:55 PM

Cards like these seperate the good players from the bad. A good player knows when an opponent is probably packing a removal card and when he's not. This card creates more ways to spend your mana. I think most of the time I won't pump her. Not unless I'm staring down a Plumeveil or Broodmate. But the option to make her relevant in those scenarios are what makes her great.

RoninX

04-15-2009, 01:23 PM

A 3/3 flyer for three, that invites you to invest more mana in it just in time to see it get incinerated doesn't get me juices going at the moment. She'll be over prices early, but then people will realize she has no home.

If and when her price drops it could certainly be worth picking a 2-3 copies in case the meta wheel turns in the right direction.

PlatypusPlatoon

04-15-2009, 02:57 PM

You have to think of it in terms of mana production/card advantage; if you put 3 counters on her, you could have cast a Rafiq and a Bird of Paradise and a Noble Hierarch with that mana, so when they kill this, they haven't killed just it, they have, in essence, killed it and a Rafiq and a Bird of Paradise and a Noble Hierarch.

I think the only time you'd want to be pumping the angel so much is when you're afraid of overextending into a Wrath. Then, having a single growing threat instead of an army of critters is a great thing. All other times, the right play would be to unload your whole team and swing for the fences, only occasionally using your spare mana to pump the angel.

In any case, colour me excited. I'm a huge fan of Figure of Destiny, and permanent growth effects are always a Good Thing. As vger points out, Jenara is better upfront than the Figure, but more expensive to super-size - a reasonable trade-off. Whether she makes the cut over Rhox War Monk is another story, but she seems ripe with potential.

GenericKen

04-15-2009, 11:37 PM

My point was that Figure doesn't NEED to go higher than an 8/8, and this would never NEED to go higher than, say, a 6/6.. if they ain't dead by then, you're doing it wrong. So why not play a Rhox War Monk (with no need for worrying if you draw a redundant copy) and equip a Loxodon Warhammer to said Monk (with fewer worries about disruption) and win with a 6/4 trample double-lifelinked for LESS mana?

Beacuse
1) It's not less mana. 6 mana to play and equip a warhammer, 6 mana to pump Jenara 3 times.
2) Because warhammer equip is sorcery speed and doesn't pump toughness.
3) Because it doesn't require a combination of 2 cards in your deck.

However, when you go down the line, you have a 4/4 Flier for 1GWWU, that does not have Vigilance.

Want to know why I use Vigilanceas my example. Who here plays Serra Angel? Anyone? Same casting cost effectively. Same P/T. More restrictive mana cost. 1 less ability.

Why would I play this card? It's also a Legend.

You cast Serra angel on turn 5, not turn 3. Serra angel is a bad comparison.

Jenara reminds me more of Exalted Angel than anything else. Control decks in the onslaught era would lay her out aggressively turn 3 and morph/swing turn 4, challenging opponents to deal with her. They would then use that stutter in tempo to establish control (or win the game, if the opponent could not deal with her through mild disruption).
And on paper, 5WW is a terrible price for a 4/4 flying lifelinker. So what if you spend 9 mana on Jenara? She's a single standalone card that must be dealt with. There used to be reanimator decks that strove to get a 5/5 swinging on turn 4. Jenara does it on her own. Good early, good late is a good rule of thumb for a playable card.

-But I'm kind of surprised at how much I miss the lifelink on Jenara. You can't just have the one body supercharge your matchup against agro.
-And Onslaught standard isn't exactly the same as the current standard. It's not clear that a Bant control deck exists, there's marginally better removal now, and flying's not nearly the evasion that it used to be (vs bitterblossom tokens, broodmate, and cloudthresher). The matchup against Demigod of Revenge and Plumeveil in particular give me pause.

So I'm on the fence. It's got a noble lineage and a proven role, but it's got quite a few bad matchups and no clear place in the meta.

Monochrome_Lotus

04-16-2009, 12:42 AM

@GenericKen: Well written. I would agree entirely if this weren't a Legend.. the redundancy of Exalted Angel was awesome and game-winning, but not so much on the Asura here.
Also, while this is a nitpick, it does cost more to pump her: 3WWW vs. 6. That could be important, considering a three-color deck (especially after rotation). :/

Dyne

04-16-2009, 07:23 AM

Exalted Angel had Lifelink though.

In a time of Goblins and Elves, gaining life was definetly what a control deck wanted too do.

Also, because they didn't have to "invest" mana, they left it open to draw cards, and counter threats.

RoninX

04-16-2009, 07:42 AM

So I'm on the fence. It's got a noble lineage and a proven role, but it's got quite a few bad matchups and no clear place in the meta.

Which is why about a month or two after the release will be a great time to pick up a card like this on the cheap in preparation for a blossomless (and three dudesless) metagame.

justactcasual

04-16-2009, 09:50 AM

If you want an Exalted Angel in the current Standard play Rhox War Monk or Kitchen Finks. If you're playing Bant Aggro there are much better things you can do with your fourth turn than pump Jenara. Until October, flying is a relatively useless form of evasion with Plumeveils, Blossoms, and Processions running about en masse. Even Wall of Reverance and Broodmate Dragon (although of course those won't rotate).This card isn't BAD, it just isn't good enough right now to see a lot of play.

Oh, and if we're going by the reasoning that any permanent grow effect is good, Feral Hydra would be seeing a lot more play. FoD goes under counters, but can also be larked and rangered. It also has a more flexible cost. It is not at all comparable with Jenara.

Dyne

04-16-2009, 10:21 AM

Oh, and if we're going by the reasoning that any permanent grow effect is good, Feral Hydra would be seeing a lot more play. FoD goes under counters, but can also be larked and rangered. It also has a more flexible cost. It is not at all comparable with Jenara.

Didn't you compare them a page back?

GoblinToken

04-16-2009, 10:40 AM

justactcasual

04-16-2009, 11:07 AM

Didn't you compare them a page back?

Mostly I was trying to cast aspersions on the logic of comparing Jenara with Serra Angel.

Dyne

04-16-2009, 11:09 AM

The threat of pump is more useful than the actual pump itself a lot of the time...

I attack with a 3/3. I have 4 mana open. Block with your Dragon Token? I didn't think so. Your turn... I Cryptic your Maelstrom Pulse and your Dragon Token. My turn.

That's 3 more damage than a pancake could do in that situation.

That's a very optimal situation for you, isn't it.

What if they have mana up for Volcanic Fallout?

You just wasted a hole turn, and they still got to swing with the actual Broodmate, while killing your flier, and tapping you out.

You can't rate a card 1 sidedly.

GenericKen

04-16-2009, 02:23 PM

That's a very optimal situation for you, isn't it.

What if they have mana up for Volcanic Fallout?

You just wasted a hole turn, and they still got to swing with the actual Broodmate, while killing your flier, and tapping you out.

You can't rate a card 1 sidedly.

Last I checked, Volcanic fallout only deals 2 damage to each creature.

The proper play is to attack, get blocked, pump once, allow to resolve (or resp to incinerate if you must), stack 4 damage, then pump once more to get 5 toughness.

The problem is that even if you draw the removal while killing the creature, that creature was still just a 4/4 token. There's still the broodmate itself and sneaky plumeveils and stuff.

Feral Hydra is not a good comparison. Big difference between 2 mana and 3 for a pump, and the feral hydra starts out below the minimum power-to-cmc ratio.

Was never a big fan of Rhox war monk, as it could never get up to the critical 4 power on its own. At least Jenara would trade with the plumeveil, even if it was terribly expensive.

Silverdawn Banisher

06-14-2009, 11:10 PM

I'm actually a fan of her, as she works perfectly fine as an assault weapon in aggro as well as a finisher in control.

Akroma may hate me for saying this, but I just can't help but pump Jenara whenever I get the chance.

RyuumiGaroukuni

06-17-2009, 07:13 PM

I may want to have this on me Bant deck... But it really going to cost me a whole lot of me money

Silverdawn Banisher

06-17-2009, 09:36 PM

Yeah, I shelled out some cash to nab three copies of her, but she is SO worth it. After my opponents spend their kill spells taking out my Rhox War Monks, Kitchen Finks and Stoic Angel, Jenara swoops in and finishes the job.

RyuumiGaroukuni

06-17-2009, 10:23 PM

Well... I would like to change my Battlegrace Angel from my 5 Color Bant Deck with Jenara... And think some other Cards to replace from the deck also...

Jenara, Asura of War = P600... Man I wish she be cheaper... Like P500 each

Silverdawn Banisher

06-17-2009, 10:35 PM

P400 @ Virra Mall, Greenhills. ;)

RyuumiGaroukuni

06-17-2009, 10:49 PM

P400 @ Virra Mall, Greenhills. ;)

OMG! P400... Let's GO!

[In Pilipino: OMG P400 lang si Jenara.... Alis na Ako! Bibilhin ko na siya!]

... I can guess Noble will cost more...

Silverdawn Banisher

06-17-2009, 10:57 PM

I do hope it's still there, as there was only one left the last time I went to the place (that was last Sunday, when I purchased one of two left remaining.) But who knows?Maybe the owner opened up a few more boxes and grabbed more copies of the winged beauty? (Though the store did sell a set for P1500 when Alara Reborn was first released.)

RyuumiGaroukuni

06-18-2009, 02:15 AM

I finally got the one which cost P400... The rest I find are about P500... But, I'll persist to find the 3, 2, or 1 more which would cost P500 - P400

Silverdawn Banisher

06-18-2009, 02:31 AM

Is that the one I told you about? The one from Virra Mall?

RyuumiGaroukuni

06-18-2009, 02:39 AM

... Yeah SB, is the one from Virra Mall

Silverdawn Banisher

06-18-2009, 02:43 AM

I'm glad you got it. Everytime I pass the place and see it, I always get tempted to snag it to complete the set - not such a good idea considering she's a legend. Now that the temptation is gone, I feel SO much better.

PulseoftheMany

07-03-2009, 03:45 PM

This cards tricky. With all the removal, you're just going to pump and have her get pathed or something, making you waste more mana. Then again, any card that makes people want to kill it as soon as it hits the field must be good. Late game, she can get crazy if you have extra mana. Of course Bant these days has so many 3 drop slots already filled in. But who knows, once doran rotates out. I decided to just run a 1 of, as a late game finisher.