Hellkite Overlord

[RoninX]

No, I didn't pull that name from the top of the card creation forums. Devin Lowe teased us with the name of that big dragon whose picture has been circulating around the web in his article today (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/feature/469b) (way down at the bottom, second to last paragraph).

edit: We now have the official card text:

Hellkite Overlord
4BRRG
Creature - Dragon
Flying, trample, haste
R: Hellkite Overlord gets +1/+0 until end of turn.
BG: Regenerate Hellkite Overlord.
8/8

[Theobill]

I reckon it will be quite powerful (thus the spoiler) but hopefully pushed more as a spikey dragon than a timmy dragon, I think that if it had a dragon underling type thing it would have been more obvious in the art.

My (almost certainly wrong) guess is 6/6 flying, does 2 damage to each creature without flying when it comes into play for 6 mana.

I'm just basing that on the art though.

Anyone else have any guesses on what it will be? Perhaps it will be mythic rare :P

[RoninX]

Perhaps it will be mythic rare :P

It definitely smells mythic to me. You're probably right about the underling, sizewise I would guess a little bigger than a meer +1/+1 compared to the Bogardan variety... but who knows.

[justactcasual]

maybe some kind of heavily pushed firebreathing? overlord + monocolour speculations for the set could imply something like RR: Red creatures you control get +1/+0 until end of turn.

he is burning up your mountains though...maybe Rathi Dragon-esque? that also pushes you towards mono-red.

...but with the hellkite name attached...probably some kind of burn capability as both it predecessors had.

[RoninX]

maybe some kind of heavily pushed firebreathing? overlord + monocolour speculations for the set could imply something like RR: Red creatures you control get +1/+0 until end of turn.

he is burning up your mountains though...maybe Rathi Dragon-esque? that also pushes you towards mono-red.


Mono color as a possibility for this block is basically out the window (unfortunately). Check out the current last few pages of the "Magic Arcana Announcement" thread for more information.

That said, it is entirely possible that this could have some kind of firebreathing. Fire breathing tied to a "when ~this~ comes into play it deals damage equal to its power divided as you choose among any number of creatures or players" would be kind of interesting.

[SolonWave]

Perhaps thats the dragon everyone gets if they buy a dragon themed deal wizards is putting out next week.

(hint) Buy one and it will have 18 i think dragons from wizards past present and future (hint Shards of alara) They are supposed to be the best of the best as dragons go!

[jordison007]

I think his ability will let you tap an untapped dragon to deal damage to your opponent equal to that tapped dragon's power.

[mtglordtom24]

We saw the frame from the box, it's a gold dragon, as in multicolored, not hybrid though. And Bogardan Hellkite is also in the box (from the vault)

[ewallhagen]

SPECULATION: 4RR 4/4 "When Hellkite Overlord comes into play, you may have dragons you control deal damage equal to their power to target creature or player." That would be very timmy-esque. Like most speculations, almost definitely wrong, but fun to think about.

[mtglordtom24]

It's impossible, the card IS multicolored. I saw the picture.
http://www.wizards.com/global/images/welcome_conventions_gencon2008_picMain_en.jpg

[Theobill]

My guess is BR then, not sure what abilities they'd put on it.

overlord sounds very black and it looks too violent to be blue. It might be 3 colour I guess, but I hope not.

[mtglordtom24]

Could be the Red realm's colors bRg.

[IlluliaofNighthearth]

Just keep the Kamigawa block in mind. After realizing the huge mistakes the had made in Mirrodin (teh broken), they really downsized the power of particular cards. Kamigawa wasn't really a bad block, it just didn't compete with Mirrodin.

I see a little rise in the power of cards since then, so we may be expecting something really neat, but I think the day of broken combinations are over for at least another year or two.

With that being said, I don't think it will be anything to dramatically awesome. Especially when looking outside of the set.

[justactcasual]

at least we can be sure this guy isn't legendary, just creature - Dragon according to the frame.

[swarm187]

what about a 3-colored Dragon Arch-type ability? obviously Shards of Alara is pushing three-colored decks, so maybe Hellkite Overlord reads something like: RBU3 2(tap): Search your library for a Dragon card and put it into your hand/on top of your library."

think that's possible, or is it too overpowered? with the questions surrounding Shards' mana production and color restrictions, i'm not sure why they would stear this card toward mono-red. my guess is that it will lean more towards a five-color deck, fetching dragons or making dragon tokens.

[TheSuperSonic1]

Im sure every one agrees that this card is from the red shard of alara, an dwe know its a gold card, so what about a mana cost of :b::r::r::g:,

its central in red, but still needs its allies to summon it,

or how about :br::br::rg::rg:

hmmm? summonable by reds alies, but easyer to summon in mono red?

[jordison007]

that'l be cool if it was cheap to play. is kokusho going to be type two again?

[dead2me82]

TheSuperSonic1 - it is NOT hybrid mana (have you looked at the other posts and pictures shown).

Anyway, I do not think it will be 3-color, simply because we had a 3-color dragon cycle in Planar Chaos...it's too soon, even if it is ally colors. My guess is 2-color

[RoninX]

Is kokusho going to be type two again?

No. The cards from the special editions (Gobs vs. Elves) are legal in whatever formats they are currently legal in, but they do not make their cards legal in any formats where they are not already legal.

[mtglordtom24]

It could be legendary, why not?

[CavemanGR]

Apparently its legal in vintage and legacy. As a special preview, Hellkite Overlord won’t be legal in Standard until the release of Shards of Alara on October 3, but in the meantime, as a printed Magic card, it will be legal in Legacy and Vintage starting on August 29, 2008.

very bottom of article http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/feature/469b

[mtglordtom24]

Yeah, but that doesn't mean that it's playable competitively in those formats, it could suck. Unlike Worldgorger Dragon, which was amazing.

[SwampRat45]

There is always that possability, but i don't think it would just judging from the way the Wizards are making such a big buzz about it. In my oppinion, they might follow up the bogardan with an ability that is similar to it or even stronger. The only problem with this idea is the Wizards like to try and make such powerful cards either have a big side effect or cost a crap load. Since Dstorm has been big it won't really be a problem to play it. If I was a card creater, I would make it do that huge amount of damage but use the remove it from game at end of turn deal or if you don't win this turn you lose. What do you all think?

[hellkite91]

so did anyone here go to gen con and buy a copy of from the vault?

[SwampRat45]

Sory not me.

[RoninX]

Here is the card text:

Hellkite Overlord
4BRRG
Creature - Dragon
Flying, trample, haste
R: Hellkite Overlord gets +1/+0 until end of turn.
BG: Regenerate Hellkite Overlord.
8/8


8 casting cost is huge, but this guy has no qualms about getting cheated into play. With Akroma rotating out (again) this guy looks like the reanimator's new best friend. Mannequin and Dramatic Entrance also are possiblilities.

[hellkite91]

OMG I use to salivate about being able to make turn 3 woodfall primus with entrance and devoted druid, this is even better than that!!!!!!!

[Theobill]

do you think there might be a cycle like this of WGGR, BUUW etc. with large fatties which are actually pretty efficient, probably all mythic.

[RoninX]

do you think there might be a cycle like this of WGGR, BUUW etc. with large fatties which are actually pretty efficient, probably all mythic.

That looks like a certainty to me, after all the "YXXZ" mana cost is basically the perfect depiction of the "mainly X with a little bit of YZ" nature of these planes.

That huge Grixis (rBu) demon dude is featured prominently in at least two pieces of art (maybe the pre-re card?) and will probably be his plane's contribution to the cycle.

This also seems like a perfect Mythic - conceivably tourney playable, but hardly a "must own" and something that will definitely not disappoint the Timmys.

[Theobill]

So, on the first mythics:

1.heavy colour requirement
2.High mana cost
3.requires 3 colours to fully utilise the card even if reanimated

These should all limit the cost pretty well as decks that play it will probably only play it as a one of (like oona) or a reanimation target, which limits the decks that use it even more.

I think wizards will do a pretty good job on this cycle (at least in terms of them being mythic).

[SolonWave]

I would love to say dragonstorm up four of these and hit for 32 but dragonstorm will be rotating out very soon and that just would not cool.

I like this kid he's very solid. An 8/8 for 8 with options? Get your dramatic entrances ready and ill attack for 8+ on turn 4!!!

[hellkite91]

why wait until turn 4 when you can have him out on TURN 3 thanks to devoted druid!?!?!?!?

[SwampRat45]

Well to be honest, I actually am very dissapointed with this new dragon. It has no where near the damage inflicting ability that anyone would expect from a hellkite, let alone the overloard. With out the use of a dragonstorm, he isn't really that effective in my oppinion and it will probably be restricted to only one in a deck which makes it less fun. I know htere are other ways to pull it out other than a Dstorm, but some of those cards may become restricted as well. What a dragg.

[Theobill]

it will probably be restricted to only one in a deck which makes it less fun.

why would it be restricted? except by personal choice (seeing as it costs 8)

Well to be honest, I actually am very dissapointed with this new dragon. It has no where near the damage inflicting ability that anyone would expect from a hellkite

actually in terms of damage the overlord outraces the bogarden hellkite over 2 turns, without firebreathing, it is also black, can regenerate and tramples (which is pretty relevant against bitterblossom).

[justactcasual]

It has no where near the damage inflicting ability that anyone would expect from a hellkite, let alone the overloard.

Actually, 8/8 haste creatures with two evasion abilities, regen, and firebreathing tend to end up dealing a lot of damage. And remember this is a black creature for extra removal dodging.

And this outraces bogardan, or any other hellkite, damage potential in ONE turn barring massive interference...

[hellkite91]

actually, to me this seems like a powered down version of spirit monger, well sorta. I mean just like the monger it regens, it is ridiculously big, while it has evasion and haste, it takes longer to cast, but yeah, pretty good card, bound to make all the Timmys go crazy, besides if someone manages to make a standard version of Optimus Prime, this deck may see quite a bit of play in type 2

[SwampRat45]

Naahh. Sorry guys, I just don't see it as beeing that powerful at this point and time. Maybe when the new set comes out and I can see what cards will help the hellkite but till now, I still just see it as a big let down. Don't get me wrong, its an ok card, but just cause it is an 8/8, has trample, regeneration, and firebreathing, still doesn't make it that powerful. The other hellkites have effects that prove to be more useful.

Bogardan is a nobrainer, shivan hellkite uses 2 mana to do 1 dmg, Crimson uses red mana to damage creatures, and the imperial when morphed back over is like a Dstorm.

Overall, for now it just isn't as good as the others were and I imagine it will be in a lot of decks if for nothing else the power that it has, but I don't think that its other abilities are going to help. But, who knows? Maybe this new set will complement the new hellkite enough to give it that power that the others have naturally.

[hellkite91]

of course it's not that great, no one will be surprised if it never hits the pro tours except in sealed deck or draft, but it still is a pretty bad *** card. besides it's bigger than every one of those hellkites, plus most of those you mentioned are even more mana intensive, crimson costs nine, and is useless the turn it comes in, imperial cost 11 mana (to morph it and then flip it face up), or just not as great for the mana investment, granted my all time favorite dragon is either bogardan hellkite or two-headed dragon, but the overlord still is pretty awesome.

[SwampRat45]

Yah the only thing I am saying is that overlord is just not what I was hoping for. You know I run a Dstorm deck and was hoping he would be better than bogardan and allow the both of them to make an opponent meet their match. But he doesn't make that big of a splash even though overlord will still serve some use. The man cool thing I see about overlord is that now there is another 8/8 dragon and he's not a legend. I guess it really comes down to how, who, and when the overlord comes out to play!!

[David88]

Yah the only thing I am saying is that overlord is just not what I was hoping for. You know I run a Dstorm deck and was hoping he would be better than bogardan and allow the both of them to make an opponent meet their match. But he doesn't make that big of a splash even though overlord will still serve some use. The man cool thing I see about overlord is that now there is another 8/8 dragon and he's not a legend. I guess it really comes down to how, who, and when the overlord comes out to play!!

In dragonstorm this is a much better hellkite than Bogarden Hellkite. What are you talking about, this dragon is only worse in that it's one set too late and one copy can't control the board.

[mtglordtom24]

This dragon is not as good as Bogardan Hellkite, if a DStorm doesn't kill, Bogardan hellkite can kill creatures, you have to attack with Overlord, which makes it succeptible to Cryptic Command (Fog) into Wrath effect. Besides, you can hardcast a BH in monored/RU DStorm, not so with the other clown.

[Theobill]

but it would be handy in the place of hunted dragon or to offer a bit of utility, if you only storm for 3 you can still get leathal and if you storm on an empty board it's arguably better. if you get this guy out your opponent probably only has one turn to deal with him.

Also handy is that this guy allows you to sink additional mana into him (though that isn't that important, it might be important in one game.

[justactcasual]

...which makes it susceptible to Cryptic Command into Wrath effect...

Personally, a creature that forces my opponent to spend a Cryptic Command and a Wrath effect just to kill it sounds like a good time. Especially since any deck that plays it will be filled with reanimation.

[TheSuperSonic1]

Well if we get a cycle of 5 huge creatures for each shard all mythic rares, Plus Sharknen Voll, thats 6/15 mythic rares, and if they all are big 8+ mana creatures and spells then we are getting tourny viable rares cheeper.

[SolonWave]

http://i19.ebayimg.com/03/i/001/05/fe/6e48_1.JPG Heres a picture of this bad arse!!!!

[mtglordtom24]

Is that symbol mythic? I can't tell. Why copper red? Why not Bright blue?

[Tapped_0ut]

Actually, if that's the card, it's NOT Mythic! Amazing! I would've figured it would be! I guess even with Mythic, we still need inexpensive rares! :) LOL

[TheSuperSonic1]

any one else think they should have gave this card the fuure shifted border?

[justactcasual]

This is the future.

[Theobill]

I think the shards version will be mythic seeing as mythics aren't meant to be out yet, besides, wizards often reprint cards at different rarities.

[Tapped_0ut]

Good point Theobill.

[mtglordtom24]

Am I the only one who thinks the mythic rare symbol color should be like bright blue? The copper red that they show on Sarkhan Vol looks too much like the gold in rares. But I'm color blind, so, I guess it could be easily distinguishable to others.

[RoninX]

Am I the only one who thinks the mythic rare symbol color should be like bright blue? The copper red that they show on Sarkhan Vol looks too much like the gold in rares. But I'm color blind, so, I guess it could be easily distinguishable to others.

I thought about that, but just because all of these first cycle of mythics will be gold doesn't mean that all mythics will be, and they probably figured that a blue (or green, or whatever) symbol wouldn't look very good on a mono color card.

[mtglordtom24]

Well, Blue might look like Silver, but copper red is just wrong. Maybe Green or White, speckled. The set symbol with the word "Mythic" printed within it. lol

[Sir_Loin]

I want to question wizards of the coast for the hellkite. sure its a big nasty that can win you the game for 8 mana, but why did they give him the abilities that he has? does an 8/8 really need fire breathing and regeneration? what on earth and kill that thing? wrath of god negates the regeneration ability. i guess the pump ability is alright, going for an even faster kill over blockers, but the regeneration was a bad call i think. Trample is enough for the green flavor for the card, and flying and the artwork give the card black flavor. I know i'm complaining over nothing but it just seems useless and that WotC needed something to fill the text space of the card.

[Mecha]

I got mine from the "From the Vault: Dragons" box. His cool looking but his not very impressive as his just multicolor big meat. He just dosen't seem to be worth using and making 3 colored deck around.

[Ajanis_vibratoy]

awkward costing :4::b::r::r::g:
firebreathing :r:
regenerate :b::g: