Thoughtseize, the "new" Duress

[Rakavolver]

I find it very hard to believe Randy or Aaron allowed this to be printed at a casting cost of :b:.

1:b: would be more believable to me.

Thoughtseize
:b:
Sorcery Rare
Target player reveals his or her hand. Choose a nonland card from it. That player discards that card.
You lose 2 life.

If that is correct though, it is hands down the best card in Lorwyn that has been officially or otherwise spoiled so far; right ahead of Tarfire, IMO (based on the cards I have read ... about 70% of the 206 cards spoiled as of this moment). I really see no drawback to it.

Wanna argue the two lifeloss? Pff!, who cares? It's an anti-control card, anti-combo, and anti-Tarmogoyf; it's .. anti-everything. It's better than Duress, because it can nail a critter. If you only have one discard card in your deck, you'll play this one. It's not main-able in every deck, but 4 in the board? Why not?

Wanna argue that when Duress was strong said decks with it also had 4 Dark Ritual + 4 Phyrexian Negator? OK, that's an argument I'll listen to, except I'll point out this is a better card than Duress.

If it's really Rare, I like rancored_elf's pet name for it: Cashseize. lol, funny. :p

So in conclusion, that casting cost can't be correct, can it? Because if it is correct, then it's wrong, if you catch my drift.

[GenericKen]

Agreed. This is the most important card in lorwyn thus far.

Forget anti-Tarmgoyf, this'll buff your own tarmgoyf, and is reason enough on its own for your opponent to not bother with plainswalkers.

[Bizmarkymark]

I am now content with Lorwyn because of this card:p

[RoninX]

Agreed. This is the most important card in lorwyn thus far.

Forget anti-Tarmgoyf, this'll buff your own tarmgoyf, and is reason enough on its own for your opponent to not bother with plainswalkers.

I really hate that they put this at rare.

[D3@D]

I gotta get 4 of this..

[discodude]

damn, thats gonna be lots of pain!!!!!!!even able to be breaking on FREAKING FIRST TURN!!!!!

[Bane_Blazefury]

oh...oh...oh....
*puts head in a bucket and curses to hearts content*
....
Man i hate discard.

[Shargon14@yaho]

As much as I dislike this card, it should be noted that, at least in standard, it wont have as big an impact as it would seem initially. Until a a strong combo deck emerges, it will be a silver bullet without any werewolves. Admitedly, a silver bullet will still kill an ordinary person, but in aggro vs aggro, thee life loss is relevant, for control vs aggro, Wrathnation is sill better. The only awsome use I can think of is to strip a wrath against control.

[Destroyer51]

this will be good in against a control deck, maybe sb for an aggro deck.
i think it takes the place of cry of contrition in rack decks.

[GenericKen]

This is a great deal better than Cry of Contrition. You don't play cry of contrition first turn.

Definately a good reason to stock up on 2 drops. If an opponent is running this and you're running top-heavy, he could pick out your sole 2-drop and make your first three plays of the game land, land, land.


Now that I think about it, this card actually makes all the card-stacking cards a good deal better in opposition. You know, the ones that fix the top card of your library to combo with clash. Like the 0/3 treefolk fetcher.
Doran/Goyf is shaping up to be ridiculous. Forget Gaedock Teeg as your primary anti-WoG tech.

Yeah, this would be interesting at B.

[MINI0N]

omfg is all i have to say. duress can kiss my shiny rare azz. or ill just run duress, cabal therapy, cry of contrition, and thoughtseize.

[Xujhan]

Why, Wizards? What makes you think we want a spell 50% better than Duress ever was? We don't! Duress was above the curve as it is. I'm going to be truly annoyed if this card is printed as spoiled. Isn't TarmoRack proof that we have enough good discard spells in the metagame as is? What was wrong with Distress? Worse, why would you saddle Eternal formats with yet another dumb-good 1-cc discard spell?

But hey, I'll good on the bright side. If they really are willing to print this, maybe we'll see Absorb again. Except at a mana cost of UW.

[Guntrial]

This card speaks for itself...
Now discard can easily shutdown decks...oh well...I hate discard :S
On a side note: this card is already being bided over 20$

[Rakavolver]

Why, Wizards? What makes you think we want a spell 50% better than Duress ever was? We don't! ...

But hey, I'll good on the bright side. If they really are willing to print this, maybe we'll see Absorb again. Except at a mana cost of UW.

Or Undermine at UB? No wait, UB doesn't need any more help. Dayam and thanks, Xujhan, you reminded me of me olde Desolation Angel UWb deck of yesteryear. God, Absorb and Undermine were terrific.

Well, they owe Blue big time if this card is real. Wouldn't be that bad at :1::b:, either. All is forgiven if they reprint Counterspell AND Mana Drain for one :u: less each, along with the stipulation that they can't be used in decks with black cards. Oh look, I just invented a new mechanic => Forbidden: :b:

[Xujhan]

When I first saw this card 'spoiled' in the MTGSalvation forums, I immediately discarded it as fake. I mean, why would Wizards ever print this? The 2 life matters about as much here as it does on Shocklands (read: it doesn't). Otherwise, it's either Distress - a card that's very recently set the bar for its effect at BB, where it should be - for half the mana cost, or a significantly better Duress, which I already consider a little too good to reprint. I didn't relish the thought of Duress coming back, but I never imagined that Wizards would print a straight-up better Duress. I'm still rooting for this to be either fake or cost 1B (which would make the card perfectly balanced), but if it isn't MaRo is going to have some explaining to do.

[sin_plague]

right now I'm picturing Xujhan as a female Desi Arnaz and MaRo as a much uglier, and less funny, Lucy...

[GenericKen]

right now I'm picturing Xujhan as a female Desi Arnaz and MaRo as a much uglier, and less funny, Lucy...

See a doctor.

[xJudicatorx]

Ugh. Discard was already evil. At least Cry, Blackmail, and Castigate are gone.

[Sidney_Rotten]

What the hell? I stop paying attention for two days and all of a sudden discard gets to go on steroids that would make Barry Bonds wet his pants? So much for my hopes of a cool combo deck coming out of this set...

Now if we can get some effective fateseal and land destruction, the game can officially be labled no fun for anybody.

[SeveredLegion]

Ok wait a minute, I really don't get the freak out.

Distress is already in the format at BB and it is common. Sure, this might come out the first turn, but I don't see people shelling out stupid amounts of cash for that.

[Xujhan]

Sin: *laughs*

Gen-Ken: *laughs harder*

Severed: Have you ever played with/against Duress? I can guarantee you that this card is nuts. If you think tournament players won't shell out for a card that's already good in every format, think again. And I'm not exaggerating. This will see heavy play in standard, extended, legacy, and vintage. If there are any decent black decks in block, it will see play there as well.

Look at it this way: Toughtseize is Distress - a good card already - for 1 mana less. Would you play Incinerate at R? How about Cancel at 1U? Wrath of God at 1WW? You see my point. You don't even need to know how good this card is. Just look at Duress and Distress, and this card is very obviously far above the curve of what a caster-chooses discard spell should be.

[discodude]

still agree with you dude. GOD DISCARD I HATE DISCARD, and now they can do it on !ST TURN. oh and lose 2 lifes...lol anyways when more than one color decks lose like 4 lifes for pain lands...is that even a disavantage if you play it in mono black? anyways that card is bomb, i swear...

[Shargon14@yaho]

How can they simply reprint Distress, but with 2 life lost and one B cheaper? what's next?

Lightning Strike R
~ deals 3 damage to a creature or player and 2 damage to you

Swords to Farm Equipment W
Remove target creature from the game. Its controller gains life equal to its power, and you lose 2 life

Annul 1U
Counter target spell. you lose 2 life

Sesuke Warrior G
When ~ comes into play, lose 2 life
3/3

[Xujhan]

Shargon: Amusingly, Annul is already a card, and only wishes that it were anywhere near that good. I agree with you entirely. losing 2 life in no way balances with being two mana cheaper. Look at what the same change did to Laightning Blast and Char. The former was literally unplayable, and the latter has one of Red's best spells for two years running. What did they think would happen is they did that to Distress, a card that was good to begin with? Never mind the fact that the difference between 1 and 2 mana is a whole lot bigger than the difference between 3 and 4 mana.

[prismatic elf]

Yes this card is great but not in a tribal format.Discard decks wins by card advantage similar to draw. They want you to have no cards in hand and them all the answers. The problem is blue still has draw after rotation black doesn't. This is sign to me that black isn't going to get any decent draw for awhile. Discard has a horrible time with aggro and without draw it's not going to get any better.

The deck that will benefit from this card is blue black control as a silver bullet.The rack will run it but I can't see rack based deck's being any good after rotation.There will be just to much aggro in the format. Control will be on the decline also leaving rack based deck's few good match ups except for Snowwhite control.

[Solomon]

I love me some discard! This card is friggin crazy and cannot be real! I won't believe it until 4 copies are in my sweaty hands! :D

Even if it is real, the loss of Bob is too much. Besides that, I'm not sure a great Tarmo-Rack deck can be built that can take on all the dedicated aggro that we'll be seeing.

[prismatic elf]

Even if it is real, the loss of Bob is too much. Besides that, I'm not sure a great Tarmo-Rack deck can be built that can take on all the dedicated aggro that we'll be seeing.


Exactly!!!

[discodude]

well, tarmorack is like any control deck: if it has a good start, then you are locked on the spot no-card-in-hand.thats how any discard deck is. with this card, it just makes sure that your gona loose a card even on your first turn. For me, that means faster control on your oponent's hand, than better chance to lower his hand below 3 cards, so agro stay in trouble as much as any other build. well, thats my interpretation of the whole picture...

[Xujhan]

I'm agreeing with the crowd here. I can't really see TarmoRack surviving without Confidant, not in its current form anyway. It's just not consistent enough. If it does survive, it'll be running a lot more creatures than it used to.

[chesztah]

Wrong description. It is way better than duress. It is like having ostracize and duress in one card.

[Solomon]

I'll probably put Thoughtseize in a B/g or w MBC deck. Will the deck be any good? Probably not but I'll give it a try since Black is my speciality. I'm also thinking of a U/B Faerie deck with counters and disruption. I've have a lot to mock up before States!